Kenneth Clarke to run for Tory leadership
Discussion
968 said:
Blimey, something we agree on!
Indeed!
968 said:
Although I would say that David Cameron seems an impressive chap, who I would vote for, without hesitation.
Yes again, a Tory version of Tony Blair perhaps. The problem is that he doesn't have any clout yet. Tony got in because he was the right man at the right time and told the people what they wanted to hear (though you could also say that of Hitler in 1933). Cameron's time will come but still Labour seem Teflon coated; while the Conservatives bicker they're not dealing with the real enemy, who carry on running the country with the finesse of Oliver Hardy trying to decorate a house.
puggit said:
3 words for you...
FUEL TAX ESCALATOR
FK off Clarke
Actually it won't make any difference, you'll have another 5 years of Labour after this term ends and after that you'll have NO money left whatsoever and the country will be an economic smoking wreck. 1,000 years to build, 10 years to break up.
simpo two said:
3 words for you...
F
Actually it won't make any difference, you'll have another 5 years of Labour after this term ends and after that you'll have NO money left whatsoever and the country will be an economic smoking wreck. 1,000 years to build, 10 years to break up.
A little dramatic perhaps, but yes the country isn't doing it's best right at the moment, although a lot of that is due to Labour economic policies which have been ripped straight out of Maggies books, and their policies which in turn have screwed the economy.
Ken Clarke might be the only one with the brains to turn it all around....
Don't agree with Cameron summary though, I do think he seems like a level headed chap, not too far either way, but certainly more trustworthy than Bliar.
968 said:
He's the only heavyweight they've got. No-one else has a chance of getting close to Labour in the next election.
Blimey, something we agree on!
Although I would say that David Cameron seems an impressive chap, who I would vote for, without hesitation.
Sorry but couldn't agree less on Clarke, or any one of the Tory old guard for that matter. All far too tarnished still with the immensely unpopular legacy of the last Tory administration. They need to give someone new a chance...although I do appreciate they're not exactly spoilt for choice on that score either.
968 said:
He's the only heavyweight they've got. No-one else has a chance of getting close to Labour in the next election.
Blimey, something we agree on!
Although I would say that David Cameron seems an impressive chap, who I would vote for, without hesitation.
i would vote for david cameron, but i would being a conservative voter anyway,
i may be wrong but i do believe 968 to be a proper socialist trying to convince people to vote for the candidate labour will find easiest to defeat?
which would be clarke or cameron, david davies gets my vote for conservative leader!
Was chatting this weekend to one of the key movers in the campaign and he broke it down like this.
David Davies is in the lead right now because of the large number of other players in the field. However, once the field is narrowed to two (either clarke and Davies or Cameron and Davies), all the current non-Davies supporters will unite behind the alternate because they all believe Davies to be a colossal prick. Apparently it is almost impossible to underestimate the hatred Davies engenders from those who have had to work with him in the past.
Clarke might be able to make it to the final, however while he might appeal to current non-tory voters, he does so by advocating policies that many tories find horrifying. He is not seen as a safe pair of hands, and also will have an image problem against Blair at the despatch box. Every time he wishes to score a point against Blair, his deep involvement with the, lets face it, disastrous last tory government leaves him open to some stunning rebukes.
The 'dream ticket' talk shows that Clarke's supporters find Cameron palatable and my money is on Clarke dropping out either before the ballot or after the first count, swiftly followed by Cameron picking up Clarke's support and safely eclipsing Davies. All in all this will be less of a contest between Davies and someone else than a contest between Davies and those who hate him. As such Cameron's youthful inexperience becomes less of a factor.
So chaps, where am I wrong?
David Davies is in the lead right now because of the large number of other players in the field. However, once the field is narrowed to two (either clarke and Davies or Cameron and Davies), all the current non-Davies supporters will unite behind the alternate because they all believe Davies to be a colossal prick. Apparently it is almost impossible to underestimate the hatred Davies engenders from those who have had to work with him in the past.
Clarke might be able to make it to the final, however while he might appeal to current non-tory voters, he does so by advocating policies that many tories find horrifying. He is not seen as a safe pair of hands, and also will have an image problem against Blair at the despatch box. Every time he wishes to score a point against Blair, his deep involvement with the, lets face it, disastrous last tory government leaves him open to some stunning rebukes.
The 'dream ticket' talk shows that Clarke's supporters find Cameron palatable and my money is on Clarke dropping out either before the ballot or after the first count, swiftly followed by Cameron picking up Clarke's support and safely eclipsing Davies. All in all this will be less of a contest between Davies and someone else than a contest between Davies and those who hate him. As such Cameron's youthful inexperience becomes less of a factor.
So chaps, where am I wrong?
Yes, I think Ken Clarke is their man, I've said so before on these pages. But 968 had it right when he said that THIS government had ripped it's manifesto straight out of Maggies book.
Y'see........it'll make no damned difference WHO is elected, the country is still going down the pan and for the reason, you have to look elsewhere.
Why did Maggie sell off all the "family silver"? the energy companies, the utility companies, the railways, the steel industry, for in truth they recieve more in subsidy now than they did when they where nationalised!
3 words, "The World Bank", an American organisation surprise surprise) who when it lends to governments worldwide (as nearly ALL do) demand that the said government privatises ALL it's state enterprises. It's happening now in South America & Africa and far from helping them it's crippling them. And who is left to buy up these...er, businesses?. Why good olde Mr Yankee doodle..............talk about self help!
Trouble is......when you study the American economy, it's the BIGGEST tax and spender of public money there is on the planet by FAR.
Consider the spending on the American armed forces, (which alone outspends the rest of the planet put together. NASA, NOA, all spending taxpayers money and supporting their industries. NASA alone supports engineering companies, aircraft companies, chemical industries, electronics industries, etc etc. with HUGE budjets and the armed forces spending is absolutely astronomic!
I think the world Bank should have a word with them myself. They're nothing but a bunch of damned commies!
Sorry about the drift
but now do you see why it will make absolutely NO DIFFERENCE whom you vote for?.......because our "government" doesn't live in this country anymore, and explains why ours does everything that they (the Yanks) want.
This is why, we will stay poor, whilst others prosper!
Y'see........it'll make no damned difference WHO is elected, the country is still going down the pan and for the reason, you have to look elsewhere.
Why did Maggie sell off all the "family silver"? the energy companies, the utility companies, the railways, the steel industry, for in truth they recieve more in subsidy now than they did when they where nationalised!
3 words, "The World Bank", an American organisation surprise surprise) who when it lends to governments worldwide (as nearly ALL do) demand that the said government privatises ALL it's state enterprises. It's happening now in South America & Africa and far from helping them it's crippling them. And who is left to buy up these...er, businesses?. Why good olde Mr Yankee doodle..............talk about self help!
Trouble is......when you study the American economy, it's the BIGGEST tax and spender of public money there is on the planet by FAR.
Consider the spending on the American armed forces, (which alone outspends the rest of the planet put together. NASA, NOA, all spending taxpayers money and supporting their industries. NASA alone supports engineering companies, aircraft companies, chemical industries, electronics industries, etc etc. with HUGE budjets and the armed forces spending is absolutely astronomic!
I think the world Bank should have a word with them myself. They're nothing but a bunch of damned commies!
Sorry about the drift
but now do you see why it will make absolutely NO DIFFERENCE whom you vote for?.......because our "government" doesn't live in this country anymore, and explains why ours does everything that they (the Yanks) want. This is why, we will stay poor, whilst others prosper!
I'm getting used to being poor now. They come to take my house away in about three months. I'm hoping that I'll get to keep the Porsche, even if I can't use it. Maybe one day I'll be able to afford it again.
It's not far off now, so I'm getting myself ready. Tried sleeping rough, and it was bloody cold and uncomfortable. Christ only knows what it's going to be like in December.
Most importantly I'll be able to sell it, when I really do need the cash.
Time to say goodbye to all you good folks is drawing near!
It's not far off now, so I'm getting myself ready. Tried sleeping rough, and it was bloody cold and uncomfortable. Christ only knows what it's going to be like in December.
Most importantly I'll be able to sell it, when I really do need the cash.
Time to say goodbye to all you good folks is drawing near!
8Pack said:
Jeuss mate! Is it so bad?
It's pretty bad, but I am a bit picky. The key isssue is work. My folks have said they'll put me up if necassary, but I don't think I'll take them up on their offer.
I used to be a professional, but most of the few employers that I've seen recently about professional jobs have decided that I'm not "quite right".
I've been for a few "low paid jobs", the best of which think I'm too well qualified, the worst of which, I'm competing with people who want far less money than I need to pay the mortgage.
Shit happens, but at this point in my life the options are pretty thin on the ground.
I'm quite a simple individual, I just like to know where I stand. I could rent out my house and live with the folks. I don't think I'll be doing that though. As far as I'm concerned, the point at which I cant afford the house anymore, that's it, game over.
I don't think I should have to compromise the right to live in my house when times are tough. When it's gone it's gone. That way you know you have to start again from the bottom.
Edited to add;
So, it makes no difference to me about Ken Clarke!
Further edited to add;
At least no-one is telling me to "get on my bike". I suppose it sad that the alternative, is the need to.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 31st August 02:54
Blimey Dilbert, it's difficult to know what to say mate. I think I would try and rent out the house though for say: a fixed term, let them pay the mortgage for you and find somewhere less expensive for yourself for a while until you're sorted again. I'd even live in mobile home or a caravan if I needed to rather than loose my home.
I've every sympathy, saw lots of it up here in the north some years ago but I was lucky I guess.
Other than that I can only wish you luck. Make sure you consider all your options though before jumping out so easily, try talking it through first with an independant financial advisor to find out what they actually are.
Hope you can: save the day
Dave
I've every sympathy, saw lots of it up here in the north some years ago but I was lucky I guess.
Other than that I can only wish you luck. Make sure you consider all your options though before jumping out so easily, try talking it through first with an independant financial advisor to find out what they actually are.
Hope you can: save the day
Dave
8Pack said:
Blimey Dilbert, it's difficult to know what to say mate. I think I would try and rent out the house though for say: a fixed term, let them pay the mortgage for you and find somewhere less expensive for yourself for a while until you're sorted again. I'd even live in mobile home or a caravan if I needed to rather than loose my home.
I've every sympathy, saw lots of it up here in the north some years ago but I was lucky I guess.
Other than that I can only wish you luck. Make sure you consider all your options though before jumping out so easily, try talking it through first with an independant financial advisor to find out what they actually are.
Hope you can: save the day
Dave
Well thanks for that, but there really isnt anything to say. Just getting my dues really. I'm a devout southerner, but I am an industrialist. My proper place and time would be Bolton about 150 years ago.
We heard loads about the north~south divide after maggie, but its not so much that, than a variably targetted destruction of industrial types.
I suppose my point is that if Clarke is going to make a difference, it's too late for me.
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