Turn engine off in traffic?
Discussion
Apparently , the local council in Braintree Essex are bringing in new rules to be able to give you a penalty notice if you leave your car ticking over even whilst the driver is in it.I think this stinks!.I presume ( it doesn't actually say )this will include sitting in traffic queues.So you are going to have some little hitler Knocking on your window to get you to turn your engine off or face the prospects of gettinf a fine.Whats this bloody country coming to!
The Times said:
Drivers could be fined for leaving their engines running — even if they remain in the vehicle — under a new proposal from a local authority.
Braintree district council in Essex may become one of the first in the country to enforce Swiss-style environmental laws, forcing motorists to switch off their engines when loading or waiting. It is already an offence to leave a motor vehicle unattended with its engine running, but under the new rules penalty notices would be issued even when the driver is in the car.
If the proposal is passed next month parking attendants or environmental health officers will be given new powers to issue £30 penalties, increasing to £60 if the fine is not paid within 14 days.
Lorry drivers who do not switch off their engines while unloading or motorists who wait outside a shop while a passenger goes inside could be caught by the proposed law. But there would be no penalty for keeping the engine running in traffic jams.
Other local authorities are watching with interest and are likely to introduce similar restrictions. Wendy Schmitt, Braintree council’s cabinet member for public protection and healthy living, who devised the proposals, said: “I am a keen environmentalist and want to see this proposal adopted.”
The Association of Chief Police Officers said the offence could be enforced under the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, which enable councils to punish drivers for excessive “noise or emission of exhaust gases”.
Seems reasonable to me.
Have they weighed the saving in pollution against the extra fuel used on resultant start-up, plus wear on starter motor? No, I don't suppose so.
****'Wendy Schmitt, Braintree council's cabinet member for *public protection and healthy living*, who devised the proposals, said: "I am a
keen environmentalist and want to see this proposal adopted."*****
Is this just another half-witted idealsitic leftie with a second-rate degree trying to get something on her CV and so justify the total waste of council-tax payer's money her salary represents?
>> Edited by simpo two on Wednesday 24th August 20:34
****'Wendy Schmitt, Braintree council's cabinet member for *public protection and healthy living*, who devised the proposals, said: "I am a
keen environmentalist and want to see this proposal adopted."*****
Is this just another half-witted idealsitic leftie with a second-rate degree trying to get something on her CV and so justify the total waste of council-tax payer's money her salary represents?
>> Edited by simpo two on Wednesday 24th August 20:34
simpo two said:
Is this just another half-witted idealsitic leftie with a second-rate degree trying to get something on her CV and so justify the total waste of council-tax payer's money her salary represents?
She can pull the keys out of mine and walk away with them. The engine will keep running until the turbo timer decides everything has cooled off enough.
will this include all generators used for powering mobile traffic lights at roadworks ? so the council will be slapping a fine on themselves 
What about lorries & commercial vehicles that need the engine to run to power whatever they are moving, ie cement mixers, refrigeration vehicles etc.
surly this would put more pollution into the atmosphere by constant starting & stopping of the engines. Perhaps it's being promoted bu car battert manufacturers or statrermotor manufacturers, as this will knock the hell out of them.
What about lorries & commercial vehicles that need the engine to run to power whatever they are moving, ie cement mixers, refrigeration vehicles etc.
surly this would put more pollution into the atmosphere by constant starting & stopping of the engines. Perhaps it's being promoted bu car battert manufacturers or statrermotor manufacturers, as this will knock the hell out of them.
Bruce Fielding said:
My Prius does this all the time... what's the problem?
again, if I iirc starting the engine uses far more fuel than letting the engine idle. however the 4 minutes was mentioned a few years ago as the cut off between the inefficient and efficient.
starting an engine also cause far more stress on the engine generally as you have a degree of contraction and expansion of components as they cool down.
so on one side - by having the policy you decrease what comes out of your exhaust, but on the other side is the energy required to build a new engine if you wear it out.
we are in danger of putting a solution in place that gives a short term gain but a long term loss.
tinman0 said:
4 minutes Simpo
iirc from a few years ago leaving your engine running for 4 minutes is the point at which the engine becomes more environmentally unfriendly than if you had turned it off.
This actually sounds very plausible - I would tend my engine off in a jam if nothing had happened in 4 mins.
simpo two said:
****'Wendy Schmitt, Braintree council's cabinet member for *public protection and healthy living*, who devised the proposals, said: "I am a
keen environmentalist and want to see this proposal adopted."*****
Is this just another half-witted idealsitic leftie with a second-rate degree trying to get something on her CV and so justify the total waste of council-tax payer's money her salary represents?
simpo two - your prejudices are showing! The web site for Braintree Council indicates that it is conservative controlled. Therefore this is:
just another half-witted idealsitic tory with a second-rate degree trying to get something on her CV and so justify the total waste of council-tax payer's money her salary represents
Prof Beard
Monkey Boy 1 said:
will this include all generators used for powering mobile traffic lights at roadworks ? so the council will be slapping a fine on themselves
What about lorries & commercial vehicles that need the engine to run to power whatever they are moving, ie cement mixers, refrigeration vehicles etc.
surly this would put more pollution into the atmosphere by constant starting & stopping of the engines. Perhaps it's being promoted bu car battert manufacturers or statrermotor manufacturers, as this will knock the hell out of them.
Very good point. Imagine turning up on site with a ten tonne load of concrete dinging round in one lump.
Phil
I havent got an actual figure but I don't think it would take anything like 4 minutes to make up for the extra fuel used by starting the engine. I would be surprised if it was as much as 1 minute to be honest.
You only get a few cycles of high fuelling to get the engine started. After this the engine will run standard calibration for its operating temperature. If its only been switched off for a few minutes your are unlikely to have dropped into the low temperature calibration but even if you do you wont be there for long.
Hybrid cars (Honda Insight etc.) work on exactly this principle, cutting the engine out whenever it isnt doing anything and using the electric motor so that you can set off again without having to wait for the engine to crank.
Edit: I'm talking about Diesels here but I would be suprised if its very different for gasolines.
>> Edited by dieseljohn on Thursday 25th August 09:53
You only get a few cycles of high fuelling to get the engine started. After this the engine will run standard calibration for its operating temperature. If its only been switched off for a few minutes your are unlikely to have dropped into the low temperature calibration but even if you do you wont be there for long.
Hybrid cars (Honda Insight etc.) work on exactly this principle, cutting the engine out whenever it isnt doing anything and using the electric motor so that you can set off again without having to wait for the engine to crank.
Edit: I'm talking about Diesels here but I would be suprised if its very different for gasolines.
>> Edited by dieseljohn on Thursday 25th August 09:53
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