Discussion
Did anyone see this last night (BBC1 9pm).
I thought it was very well produced programme, sensitive to both sides, without portryaing either one as evil etc.
The scene where you watch the bomb falling was so very chilling, knowing that at in a few seconds thousands of people would die instantly.
I would like to commend the BBC for actually producing a programme that seemed to stick to the facts, and bring such a historical moment right to the front of everyones minds.
I thought it was very well produced programme, sensitive to both sides, without portryaing either one as evil etc.
The scene where you watch the bomb falling was so very chilling, knowing that at in a few seconds thousands of people would die instantly.
I would like to commend the BBC for actually producing a programme that seemed to stick to the facts, and bring such a historical moment right to the front of everyones minds.
I thought it was pretty good, but some of the dramatisation bits were irritating. They could also have gone into the justifications of using the bomb a bit more, rather than a couple of sentences at the end. Interesting though about the photo of the pilot waving out of the cockpit. It looks like he's giving a cheerful wave, rather than trying to move people away from the engine he wanted to start.
nuclearsquash said:
Did anyone see this last night (BBC1 9pm).
I thought it was very well produced programme, sensitive to both sides, without portryaing either one as evil etc.
The scene where you watch the bomb falling was so very chilling, knowing that at in a few seconds thousands of people would die instantly.
I would like to commend the BBC for actually producing a programme that seemed to stick to the facts, and bring such a historical moment right to the front of everyones minds.
was good and yes was quite orrible when the bomb was dropped. still in 2 minds of whether they should have done or not - when u see them arguing over surrender theres no way they would have surrendered unless something like this was used. whether it needed to be dropped on a city though...
Agreed,
I've always been of the mind that it was the right thing to do. But seeing albeit dramatised scenes of the event makes me wonder whether a display over mt Fuji might have been more effective or some such.
Even though the Japanese populace was steeled for a long fight, the instant deaths of thousands of innocent children makes it har to justify. But it did end the war.
But at any rate with a programme like this it reminds us of what truly terrifying weapons they are, and considering how big the are now even more so.
On a side note one thing i was confused about was why did the weapons officer need to defuse the bomb if there were trigger plugs that needed to be put in before the bomb would detonate (the green plugs being swapped for the red plugs)?
I've always been of the mind that it was the right thing to do. But seeing albeit dramatised scenes of the event makes me wonder whether a display over mt Fuji might have been more effective or some such.
Even though the Japanese populace was steeled for a long fight, the instant deaths of thousands of innocent children makes it har to justify. But it did end the war.
But at any rate with a programme like this it reminds us of what truly terrifying weapons they are, and considering how big the are now even more so.
On a side note one thing i was confused about was why did the weapons officer need to defuse the bomb if there were trigger plugs that needed to be put in before the bomb would detonate (the green plugs being swapped for the red plugs)?
IvIark said:
Yes I wonder whether a discrete telephone call to Hirohito telling him to look out of his window and then dropping it 20 miles out to sea in full view of Tokyo would have had a similar effect.
Good thought but you/we are not Japanese warrior class trained to accept victory or death (a bit like suicide bombers). Plus, the US only had two bombs.
Tragically (and utterly unbelievably IMO), the complete destruction of an entire city didn't induce the Japanese to surrender, so any thoughts that destroying a swathe of countryside with the atom bomb would have had any effect on the Japanese willingness to surrender are, sadly, wishful thinking.
thegreatsoprendo said:
any thoughts that destroying a swathe of countryside with the atom bomb would have had any effect on the Japanese willingness to surrender are, sadly, wishful thinking.
That's all it can be, but to be honest even with the benefit of hindsight I personally think it was the right thing to do. Something else might have worked, but this did work and there can be no doubt that it saved as many lives as it took.
I read the review of the show in the Times today, and the bombing was described as an "atrocity"...
Though it was a tremondous loss of life, it was a total World War being fought. We sadly have no idea how that really feels. The conflicts we fight nowadays are tiny and contained generally and we face no threat ourselves. Off course recent events in London could suggest otherwise.
Japan were our Enemy at the time, our soldiers lives were worth more, and the bombs did save many allied lives. Now today we can pontificate about how we should have found another way etc but I for one am grateful that someone made such a difficult decision.
Also if the planned assualt on Japan had taken place, many of your ancestors would have been killed and many of the peeps on hear pointing the finger of blame on here would be silent as they would never had been born.
Though it was a tremondous loss of life, it was a total World War being fought. We sadly have no idea how that really feels. The conflicts we fight nowadays are tiny and contained generally and we face no threat ourselves. Off course recent events in London could suggest otherwise.
Japan were our Enemy at the time, our soldiers lives were worth more, and the bombs did save many allied lives. Now today we can pontificate about how we should have found another way etc but I for one am grateful that someone made such a difficult decision.
Also if the planned assualt on Japan had taken place, many of your ancestors would have been killed and many of the peeps on hear pointing the finger of blame on here would be silent as they would never had been born.
Don't forget it took TWO bombs to persuade Emperor Hirohito himself to order his military commanders to stop fighting. They were not prepared to surrender even after the atom bombs were dropped.
Also, more people had already died in the "normal" bombing raids on Tokyo that the USAAF had been conducting since mid 1944.
Up to the moment the two atom bombs were dropped, the Allied atitude to the atom bombs were that they were no different to the normal bombing they had been carrying out up until then, only bigger. It was Hirohito who probably realised before anyone that this was something very different.
Also, more people had already died in the "normal" bombing raids on Tokyo that the USAAF had been conducting since mid 1944.
Up to the moment the two atom bombs were dropped, the Allied atitude to the atom bombs were that they were no different to the normal bombing they had been carrying out up until then, only bigger. It was Hirohito who probably realised before anyone that this was something very different.
I tihkn its wrong to call it an atrocity (something the prgramme didnt do).
It was at the end of the day a necessary evil (as was called one of the scientific B29's following Enola Gay),it ended the war. Tragic though the loss of life was it had to be done, and no amount of PC jerrymandering will change that. We should not apologise for the past. Infact if this had not happened would Japan be where it is today?
It was at the end of the day a necessary evil (as was called one of the scientific B29's following Enola Gay),it ended the war. Tragic though the loss of life was it had to be done, and no amount of PC jerrymandering will change that. We should not apologise for the past. Infact if this had not happened would Japan be where it is today?
Remember it did take 2 bombs and two cities destroyed before they surrendered, and even then some of the nutters wanted to go out fighting. Its only because the emperor realised it was his arse on the line and that he could still remain in power if he surrendered that he decided to give up. Also I don't think anyone realised how bad the radiation effects would be. This was all mostly experimental stuff, but we learn from out mistakes (most of the time anyway...)
He took out the normal high explosive, so if the aircraft crashed and caught fire the normal high explosive wouldn't detonate, thereby setting off the nuclear trigger. The trigger plugs was just the device to 'arm' the bomb so that it would trigger at 1500ft.
Thats just my understanding though, I could be completely wrong.
nuclearsquash said:
On a side note one thing i was confused about was why did the weapons officer need to defuse the bomb if there were trigger plugs that needed to be put in before the bomb would detonate (the green plugs being swapped for the red plugs)?
He took out the normal high explosive, so if the aircraft crashed and caught fire the normal high explosive wouldn't detonate, thereby setting off the nuclear trigger. The trigger plugs was just the device to 'arm' the bomb so that it would trigger at 1500ft.
Thats just my understanding though, I could be completely wrong.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. We weren't there when the decision was made. been watching a series called 'Hell in the Pacific' on History Channel which, if nothing else, should bring peiople too realise why the yanks decide touse the bomb.
>> Edited by The Wiz on Monday 8th August 13:49
>> Edited by The Wiz on Monday 8th August 13:49
Nagasaki was doubly unfortunate as it was the alternative target. The primary target, Kokura, was obscured by cloud.
Both B-29s used for the A Bomb drops are preserved. Enola Gay is on display at the new Smithsonian Institute's Dulles Airport museum and Boxcar is at the USAF Museum, Dayton, Ohio.
Both B-29s used for the A Bomb drops are preserved. Enola Gay is on display at the new Smithsonian Institute's Dulles Airport museum and Boxcar is at the USAF Museum, Dayton, Ohio.
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