Discussion
Hmmm. It's now 11:50, and I've just returned from the bar. Kindly excuse any spelling miscakes and the general whimsical tone, and bear with me.
I have just return from what can be described as a genuine, honest blue collar bar. I have no issues with that at all. I chatted to several people, all of whom were decent human beings, and all of whom engaged in friendly banter on a range of subjects. And took the piss out of the accent.
I then met the old guy. I'm going to struggle to carry across the impact this man had on me in mere text, but I shall try.
Apparently, according to the history of old guy, the good old USA bailed europe out of the first and second world war, and without them we'd be under the jackboot. It is potentally an interesting discussion of alternative history, and I attempted to engage him as such.
Mistake number one.
The london bombings were done by Muslims, and are the beginnings of a Islamic/Christian war that will engulf the planet. When I pointed out that surely he must agree that they, at a stretch, were the result of extremist/fundamentalists who had mearly 'claimed' the banner of a religion, he stated that the claim was enough.
When I pointed out that the Oaklahoma bomb was the work of a white Christian male, and that Christian extremists shoot doctors and blow up clinics that perform legal abortions, he changed the subject.
He then proceeded to tell me that he'd served 20 years in the military (really, I'd never had guessed), that he was a Vietnam veteran and had been wounded in combat. He described the wounds in great detail. He had lost half a stomach, a length of intestine (it varied between 8 and 14 feet on each retelling of the tale) and had shrapnel in his heart that was still working its way through.
And that even at fifty four he would happily return to combat and "Kill as many of those towelhead bastards as possible".
I kid you not.
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
I'm sure that sober he's a decent upstanding citizen. But drunk, he came over as an ill educated aggressive zealot, and a scary one at that. Like most guys who have had a couple of beers, he was right, and any alternate point of view was wrong.
I don't know how much of his stance was ill-education, and how much was military brainwashing.
I walked home stone cold sober. I really hope this man was an oddity in this great country. I have a nasty feeling he might not have been.
Sorry. Not an amusing post this time.
I have just return from what can be described as a genuine, honest blue collar bar. I have no issues with that at all. I chatted to several people, all of whom were decent human beings, and all of whom engaged in friendly banter on a range of subjects. And took the piss out of the accent.
I then met the old guy. I'm going to struggle to carry across the impact this man had on me in mere text, but I shall try.
Apparently, according to the history of old guy, the good old USA bailed europe out of the first and second world war, and without them we'd be under the jackboot. It is potentally an interesting discussion of alternative history, and I attempted to engage him as such.
Mistake number one.
The london bombings were done by Muslims, and are the beginnings of a Islamic/Christian war that will engulf the planet. When I pointed out that surely he must agree that they, at a stretch, were the result of extremist/fundamentalists who had mearly 'claimed' the banner of a religion, he stated that the claim was enough.
When I pointed out that the Oaklahoma bomb was the work of a white Christian male, and that Christian extremists shoot doctors and blow up clinics that perform legal abortions, he changed the subject.
He then proceeded to tell me that he'd served 20 years in the military (really, I'd never had guessed), that he was a Vietnam veteran and had been wounded in combat. He described the wounds in great detail. He had lost half a stomach, a length of intestine (it varied between 8 and 14 feet on each retelling of the tale) and had shrapnel in his heart that was still working its way through.
And that even at fifty four he would happily return to combat and "Kill as many of those towelhead bastards as possible".
I kid you not.
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
I'm sure that sober he's a decent upstanding citizen. But drunk, he came over as an ill educated aggressive zealot, and a scary one at that. Like most guys who have had a couple of beers, he was right, and any alternate point of view was wrong.
I don't know how much of his stance was ill-education, and how much was military brainwashing.
I walked home stone cold sober. I really hope this man was an oddity in this great country. I have a nasty feeling he might not have been.
Sorry. Not an amusing post this time.
Ah, the joys of travel. We moan about our country, but hopefully examples of this kind of warped mindset are pretty rare in the U.K. At least this old git doesn't have the balls to wear a suicide bomb, I suppose. Probably because he has no cause to consider worth fighting for (except his own opinions)
Interesting. When I lived in the states in 1980/81, most of my freinds were old folks in their sixties, many WWII veterans were amongst them, they had a more than realistic grasp of the politic of WWI & WWII. I was 18/19 myself at the time, but I found it difficult to make any freinds my own age 'dumb as 
' springs to mind.
' springs to mind.Mr E said:
Apparently, according to the history of old guy, the good old USA bailed europe out of the first and second world war, and without them we'd be under the jackboot.
Let's hear Mr E's proposals for ending WW2 shall we? How exactly did you plan to have D-Day without the Americans, who provided the vast bulk of the army and air force to crack Rommel's Fortress Europe? How do you plan to defeat the Japanese without the Bomb?
Mr E said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
I wonder if you would have said that to a British ex-serviceman?
Seems like PH is turning into a bunch of Guardian-readers.
Mr E said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
Seeing as they get a medal for every succesful trip to the PX......... treat his comments with......
I doubt if wounds would have ever been mentioned in our mob, one just collected them and hoped that one can carry on. Some of course couldn't!
Your experience is just typical of some groups of people all over the world; must admit have also met obnoxious Brits who talked about their war experiences similarly, but after delving further usually found that they were REMFs not frontline troops, so their war experiences were mostly secondhand........
Put it down to experience and forget it, and enjoy all the nice normal Americans where you can (and there are a lot of them)!.........
JMGS4 said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
Seeing as they get a medal for every succesful trip to the PX......... treat his comments with......
I doubt if wounds would have ever been mentioned in our mob, one just collected them and hoped that one can carry on. Some of course couldn't!
Your experience is just typical of some groups of people all over the world; must admit have also met obnoxious Brits who talked about their war experiences similarly, but after delving further usually found that they were REMFs not frontline troops, so their war experiences were mostly secondhand........
Put it down to experience and forget it, and enjoy all the nice normal Americans where you can (and there are a lot of them)!.........
Something to remember; when we as Americans travel to other regions of our country, it is much like you traveling to other European nations. We make fun of each other's speech, tastes in food, "The Left Coast", "You New England Yankee", "Southern Redneck", etc. Point: If you don't like a particular spot, keep moving and it will be very different each place you visit. And for every blowhard in each place, there is someone next to them that has another view.
Mr E said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
fantastic. a retired american serviceman now thinks all engishmen are assh*les.
what a wonderful and tolerant world we live in. we could sure show the islamic extremists something or two.
I had a similar thing happen to me in a pub in London in 1994. While having dinner with my wife and old guy came up to our table looked at us and said - "Americans, ugh, they never should have let you off the plane"
There are assholes anywhere you go. Nationalism and beer are an ugly mix.
There are assholes anywhere you go. Nationalism and beer are an ugly mix.
simpo two said:
Let's hear Mr E's proposals for ending WW2 shall we? How exactly did you plan to have D-Day without the Americans, who provided the vast bulk of the army and air force to crack Rommel's Fortress Europe? How do you plan to defeat the Japanese without the Bomb?
I agree absolutely that without the USA suppling goods and materials we'd have probably gone under. There is also no way in hell D-Day would have happened without hundreds of thousands of brave yanks who put their lives on the line.
I disagree with the blinkered "well we did all the god damn work in dubya dubya two, arn't we so gosh darn great" attitude I received, and expressed myself as such.
Mr E said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
simpo two said:
I wonder if you would have said that to a British ex-serviceman?
Mr E said:
His parting comment was that he was one of only 27 servicemen to have received 4 purple hearts for injury in combat.
My parting comment was that in that case he should learn to duck a little better.
[quote]
fantastic. a retired american serviceman now thinks all engishmen are assh*les.
what a wonderful and tolerant world we live in. we could sure show the islamic extremists something or two.[/quote]
If said service man had repeatedly told me the same fact 4 times in 8 minutes, yes I would of and I have.
For the record, the scars he insisted on showing looked very much like a recent heart op to me. Unless they opened a 5" incision down your breast bone to remove shrapnel from your intestines.
So true.I should clarify myself somewhat to avoid this degenerating into a slanging match.
This guy was an honest to goodness all american blinkered fool. The lack of thought and levels of paranoia were scary. He was setting himself up for religious warfare.
It wasn't a discussion. He sat down next to me, uninvited and proceeded to tell me (several times over) his views on the world, and come out with various very scary points of view with no central theme.
If we'd had a sensible exchange of views (and we could have disagreed on pretty much everything discussed) I'd have shaken the man by the hand as I left and called him a friend.
We did not. Zealots are often blinded by faith. This guy certainly was. That earns no respect from me at all.
And I didn't offend the man. He simply was not listening to me.
This guy was an honest to goodness all american blinkered fool. The lack of thought and levels of paranoia were scary. He was setting himself up for religious warfare.
It wasn't a discussion. He sat down next to me, uninvited and proceeded to tell me (several times over) his views on the world, and come out with various very scary points of view with no central theme.
If we'd had a sensible exchange of views (and we could have disagreed on pretty much everything discussed) I'd have shaken the man by the hand as I left and called him a friend.
We did not. Zealots are often blinded by faith. This guy certainly was. That earns no respect from me at all.
And I didn't offend the man. He simply was not listening to me.
Mr E said:
I should clarify myself somewhat to avoid this degenerating into a slanging match.
This guy was an honest to goodness all american blinkered fool. The lack of thought and levels of paranoia were scary. He was setting himself up for religious warfare.
It wasn't a discussion. He sat down next to me, uninvited and proceeded to tell me (several times over) his views on the world, and come out with various very scary points of view with no central theme.
If we'd had a sensible exchange of views (and we could have disagreed on pretty much everything discussed) I'd have shaken the man by the hand as I left and called him a friend.
We did not. Zealots are often blinded by faith. This guy certainly was. That earns no respect from me at all.
And I didn't offend the man. He simply was not listening to me.
So let me get this straight. Some drunk sat down next to you in a bar and started putting the world straight.
Please - you get this everywhere. I had a drunk Irishman recall his life story a few weeks ago in my local who proceeded to tell me how good the IRA were etc yet i don't get all anti-Irish.
[quote=tinman0
Please - you get this everywhere. I had a drunk Irishman recall his life story a few weeks ago in my local who proceeded to tell me how good the IRA were etc yet i don't get all anti-Irish.[/quote]
And I'm not getting anti american. I love the place.
I am getting anti this particular guy. I've not encountered that level of hatred to a group of people for a very long time.
Please - you get this everywhere. I had a drunk Irishman recall his life story a few weeks ago in my local who proceeded to tell me how good the IRA were etc yet i don't get all anti-Irish.[/quote]
And I'm not getting anti american. I love the place.
I am getting anti this particular guy. I've not encountered that level of hatred to a group of people for a very long time.
Well I hope that in general you are enjoying your time here in the "former colonies".
Yeah, we have our share of nutters who exaggerate the US role in everything. Seems to me that we have enough serious historical accomplishments (Man on the Moon, that sort of thing) that a reasonable Yank would not see the need to stretch the truth. OK, that's it, the guy was not reasonable.
Truth told, WWII was a team effort, and the major players were the ones at Yalta...You, us, and the Russians (USSR at the time).
Anyway, enjoy what's good on offer. We have more than our fair share of truly crap drivers, so do keep your guard up!
Mark
Yeah, we have our share of nutters who exaggerate the US role in everything. Seems to me that we have enough serious historical accomplishments (Man on the Moon, that sort of thing) that a reasonable Yank would not see the need to stretch the truth. OK, that's it, the guy was not reasonable.
Truth told, WWII was a team effort, and the major players were the ones at Yalta...You, us, and the Russians (USSR at the time).
Anyway, enjoy what's good on offer. We have more than our fair share of truly crap drivers, so do keep your guard up!
Mark
madmike said:
Mr E, that guy you encountered lives everywhere beer is served...there's always one.
Glad you are enjoying the US overall...if you make it out to DC, hit me up. I'm much, much funnier when I'm drunk than that old guy is.
>> Edited by madmike on Tuesday 19th July 23:13
You are also welcome to come to New Orleans and sweat your ass off!
Seriously, email me if in the area and we can do the town and some old plantations along the Mississippi River.
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