Does Blair have no shame?
Discussion
From the BBC website today
"The argument linking Iraq to the London bombs is firmly rejected by the British government.
Prime Minister Tony Blair made this clear in his statement to Parliament on the Monday after the attacks: "It seems probable that the attack was carried out by Islamist extremist terrorists, of the kind who over recent years have been responsible for so many innocent deaths in Madrid, Bali, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Kenya, Tanzania, Pakistan, Yemen, Turkey, Egypt and Morocco, of course in New York on September 11th, but in many other countries too."
The same line was taken by Defence Secretary John Reid, who was asked about the Chatham House report. "
So presumeably, Blair spoke to the 4 terrorists before they blew themselves up, and asked them
"this has nothing to do with Iraq, does it?"
what a crock.
The instant denial is spelling out their guilt.
The answer to this report should have been
"we are uncertain at present if there are any links to Iraq" not an outright denial.
The Iraq war ( not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it) has created a huge recruitment drive for AlQaeeda.
If Blair cant even admit that fact, then we quite frankly, are fucked.
"The argument linking Iraq to the London bombs is firmly rejected by the British government.
Prime Minister Tony Blair made this clear in his statement to Parliament on the Monday after the attacks: "It seems probable that the attack was carried out by Islamist extremist terrorists, of the kind who over recent years have been responsible for so many innocent deaths in Madrid, Bali, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Kenya, Tanzania, Pakistan, Yemen, Turkey, Egypt and Morocco, of course in New York on September 11th, but in many other countries too."
The same line was taken by Defence Secretary John Reid, who was asked about the Chatham House report. "
So presumeably, Blair spoke to the 4 terrorists before they blew themselves up, and asked them
"this has nothing to do with Iraq, does it?"
what a crock.
The instant denial is spelling out their guilt.
The answer to this report should have been
"we are uncertain at present if there are any links to Iraq" not an outright denial.
The Iraq war ( not arguing about the rights or wrongs of it) has created a huge recruitment drive for AlQaeeda.
If Blair cant even admit that fact, then we quite frankly, are fucked.
Two points....
1) Does Blair have no shame? What a stupid question - he's a politician isnt he? Shame is something that is surgically removed at an early age.
2) Iraq is the single issue which can be used to justify the London bomb attacks? Not quite. As other groups (politicians and independant) have said - it may have been an catalyst but it isnt the single reason for it. Terrorist attacks have occurred before and after both Afganistan and Iraq. They have happened in countries which supported or not the "war on terror"....
The important thing is to get to the real reason for the attacks and not jump onto the bandwagon which the terrorists are indicating. Of course they will say Iraq, they need more recruits and support and this is an easy way to achieve this.... is it the real reason? Or is it just another attempt to gain support for their own twisted mentality and gain power? I am no terrorist analysis and could be very wrong, but lets see the full and real reasons before pointing fingers etc...
1) Does Blair have no shame? What a stupid question - he's a politician isnt he? Shame is something that is surgically removed at an early age.
2) Iraq is the single issue which can be used to justify the London bomb attacks? Not quite. As other groups (politicians and independant) have said - it may have been an catalyst but it isnt the single reason for it. Terrorist attacks have occurred before and after both Afganistan and Iraq. They have happened in countries which supported or not the "war on terror"....
The important thing is to get to the real reason for the attacks and not jump onto the bandwagon which the terrorists are indicating. Of course they will say Iraq, they need more recruits and support and this is an easy way to achieve this.... is it the real reason? Or is it just another attempt to gain support for their own twisted mentality and gain power? I am no terrorist analysis and could be very wrong, but lets see the full and real reasons before pointing fingers etc...
PP,
Can i just start by saying that I know what you mean and you in no way see Iraq as justification for the bombings. But your post could be twisted to show the bombings as acceptable because of the war.
The War in Iraq is only the latest excuse for these nonsense acts. Looking at the bombings over the weekend where hundreds have died, I depair that those committing them will never stop and they are certainly not just the enemies of the great satan and his sidekick (us). What possible cause is served by their actions? What possible justification can they be using convince the bombers to do it? If it wasnt Iraq it would be some previous slight that the USA had caused. Pity all the Sunni clerics in Iraq cannot decry whats happening. Yes I know its more complex than that but I cant write an essay here. The extremists need an enemy to focus the young impressionable minds on, that enemy is the USA and us at present, shame they seem to be killing their own people while they are doing it.
But your right about Blair he's a tosser
Can i just start by saying that I know what you mean and you in no way see Iraq as justification for the bombings. But your post could be twisted to show the bombings as acceptable because of the war.
The War in Iraq is only the latest excuse for these nonsense acts. Looking at the bombings over the weekend where hundreds have died, I depair that those committing them will never stop and they are certainly not just the enemies of the great satan and his sidekick (us). What possible cause is served by their actions? What possible justification can they be using convince the bombers to do it? If it wasnt Iraq it would be some previous slight that the USA had caused. Pity all the Sunni clerics in Iraq cannot decry whats happening. Yes I know its more complex than that but I cant write an essay here. The extremists need an enemy to focus the young impressionable minds on, that enemy is the USA and us at present, shame they seem to be killing their own people while they are doing it.
But your right about Blair he's a tosser
JagLover said:
The September 11th attacks, which were far more deadly, predated the war in both Iraq & Afghanistan.
The situation in Iraq is simply a justification being used at the moment, even without it there will still be extremists willing to commit such acts.
Much too simplistic.
The point of the report from Chatham House is that since Iraq, the likelihood of terrorist attacks occuring is more likely. That is self evident since the number of terrorist bombings have increased exponentially since the war in Iraq.
Before Iraq, I doubt there would have been such militancy in THIS country, and perhaps in some of the other countries. Iraq may not have caused the problems, but it's like throwing a lit match into a powder keg.
968 said:At least in Iraq we're killing plenty of the b&$^ards.
The September 11th attacks, which were far more deadly, predated the war in both Iraq & Afghanistan.
The situation in Iraq is simply a justification being used at the moment, even without it there will still be extremists willing to commit such acts.
Much too simplistic.
The point of the report from Chatham House is that since Iraq, the likelihood of terrorist attacks occuring is more likely. That is self evident since the number of terrorist bombings have increased exponentially since the war in Iraq.
Before Iraq, I doubt there would have been such militancy in THIS country, and perhaps in some of the other countries. Iraq may not have caused the problems, but it's like throwing a lit match into a powder keg.
968 said:No you're ok thanks. I don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
I suggest you go and whine about something or whatever the hell you liberals normally do in your spare time.
Oh touche, what a cutting riposte from you. Feel like using your grey matter yet?
968 said:I was merely maintaining the level you set when insinuating that these animals blowing themselves up is somehow our own doing.
No you're ok thanks. I don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Yes, and your initial post was full of subtle and intelligent nuances that displays a highly analytical approach to the situation in Iraq.
CupraR said:
Yes, and your initial post was full of subtle and intelligent nuances that displays a highly analytical approach to the situation in Iraq.
I was merely maintaining the level you set when insinuating that these animals blowing themselves up is somehow our own doing.[/quote]
Clearly your reading skills need a little work. Where did I say that? I said that the risk of terrorism has increased since Iraq, and the likelihood of militancy being nurtured in this country has also increased since Iraq. Or did I use too many long words for you?
rich1231 said:
PP,
Can i just start by saying that I know what you mean and you in no way see Iraq as justification for the bombings. But your post could be twisted to show the bombings as acceptable because of the war.
The War in Iraq is only the latest excuse for these nonsense acts. Looking at the bombings over the weekend where hundreds have died, I depair that those committing them will never stop and they are certainly not just the enemies of the great satan and his sidekick (us). What possible cause is served by their actions? What possible justification can they be using convince the bombers to do it? If it wasnt Iraq it would be some previous slight that the USA had caused. Pity all the Sunni clerics in Iraq cannot decry whats happening. Yes I know its more complex than that but I cant write an essay here. The extremists need an enemy to focus the young impressionable minds on, that enemy is the USA and us at present, shame they seem to be killing their own people while they are doing it.
But your right about Blair he's a tosser
understand exactly what you are getting at.
But my point is that commentators and politicians seem to lump all the terrorists into one hat as if they fully understand the reasons for their acts.
Im sure the nutters at the top of alqaeeda believe all this tripe about taking over the west,
but to try to deny that the 4 bombers werent motivated by the war in Iraq is just ridiculous.
Bottom line is OBL is insigificant (i know he isnt!),
compared to the people who actually commit the acts.
I will underline that in NO WAY do i believe this as a justification for the bombings, but the thread was
about how Blair is already ruling out any link.
and clearly that is impossible for him to say.
Rich, as for what possible reason or cause there was for this seemingly stupid strategic attack,
well Id say it was mainly about getting a military reaction from the US/UK and creating divisions between muslims and non muslims, hence fuelling more recruitment.
>> Edited by peterpeter on Monday 18th July 18:41
>> Edited by peterpeter on Monday 18th July 18:42
CupraR said:
I was merely maintaining the level you set when insinuating that these animals blowing themselves up is somehow our own doing.
Eh? Where did 968 say that then? Or is that what you have construde as what you think he said - two totally different things.
The whole subject of terrorism cannot be dealt with sound-bites, its a complex and difficult problem. Many of the conclusions out of the whole thing will probably make very difficult reading and force us all to own up to a few things..... but, Chatham House have massively underestimated the whole issue. Lets not forget that post 9/11 the terror risk for London actually went down for a few years. It has risen recently but plotters have been trying for years to pull something off here - fortunately we have either foiled or prevented them before now. But the head of the Metro Police was right a few months ago - "its not a case of never, its a case of when"..... poinigant (sp?) and forward thinking.... unfortunately for those who died and were injured.
968 said:"I doubt there would have been such militancy in THIS country" is what you said. A totally ludicrous statement, since it's plain to see these wackos need no excuses. The more of them we kill in Iraq and Afghanistan the better.
Yes, and your initial post was full of subtle and intelligent nuances that displays a highly analytical approach to the situation in Iraq.
I was merely maintaining the level you set when insinuating that these animals blowing themselves up is somehow our own doing.
Clearly your reading skills need a little work. Where did I say that? I said that the risk of terrorism has increased since Iraq, and the likelihood of militancy being nurtured in this country has also increased since Iraq. Or did I use too many long words for you?
CupraR said:
"I doubt there would have been such militancy in THIS country" is what you said. A totally ludicrous statement, since it's plain to see these wackos need no excuses. The more of them we kill in Iraq and Afghanistan the better.
Nice comprehension skills.
Yes that is what I said. That doesn't justify or excuse the terrorism. Not a ludicrous statement at all, but perhaps a statement of fact, since no such attacks happened prior to the war in Iraq.
For your information, 'we' aren't killing any of 'them' in Iraq. The people who carried out the bombings were british born citizens, who have been radicalised. 'Them' in Iraq are a marrass of old terrorists, insurgents and old Saddam loyalists, mixed in with some good old ethnic tensions.
The people being killed in Iraq each day (100 in 2 days), in case you hadn't noticed are mainly bystanders and foreign soldiers.
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