Discussion
I just got into a discussion with someone (although I asked them if we could stop talking about it) about yesterdays events in London. They said to me (and I quote) " You can't take this attack personally, they are just fighting the war the only way they know how"
When I challenged them as to who 'they' were, they hadn't got a clue who they were talking about but went on to say that 'they'had been attacked in 'their' country too.
I swear, the ignorance of people sometimes astounds me. :cry:
When I challenged them as to who 'they' were, they hadn't got a clue who they were talking about but went on to say that 'they'had been attacked in 'their' country too.
I swear, the ignorance of people sometimes astounds me. :cry:
muppet said:
" You can't take this attack personally, they are just fighting the war the only way they know how"
I wish people would stop calling this a war as it certainly not my definition of a war
"armed fighting between two or more countries or groups" I mean who are we fighting??
>> Edited by cotty on Friday 8th July 13:44
JagLover said:
It is the purposeful ignorance of the Guardian set.
'Of course I am not justifying terrorism but.....'
You know what makes me really angry? The people who have made political points and sweeping generalisations in commenting about this. The persistant comments that somehow this is the fault of the left/ liberals/ Guardian readers/ public transport/ hippies/ Blair/ Bush/ Muslims/ me and my
mum. All three political parties got together and showed a united front. Muslim and Christian groups joined to condemn the attacks. For once, even I've managed to leave out commenting on ID cards, this simply isn't the time for that.
Yet you have to bleat on about Guardian readers. Nongreen even managed to get in a dig about public transport. Right now, could you just leave it out? It's boorish and crass.
cotty said:
" You can't take this attack personally, they are just fighting the war the only way they know how"
I wish people would stop calling this a war as it certainly not my definition of a war
"armed fighting between two or more countries or groups" I mean who are we fighting??
>> Edited by cotty on Friday 8th July 13:44
"Them".......
Tuna said:
Yet you have to bleat on about Guardian readers. Nongreen even managed to get in a dig about public transport. Right now, could you just leave it out? It's boorish and crass.
Now is not the time to debate Public Transport it is true.
I am just making a point that some (including the Guardian set) are trying to make excuses for these terrorists, just like Little Reds acquaintance,
As for them not being at fault, for the past few years we have had them bleating about any measures the UK/USA government have taken to improve our security.
The thing that most sticks in my mind is the British detainees at Guantamalo bay (hope I spelt that right), I'm sure they were in Afghanistan learning flower arranging so of course we should set them all free and not monitor them.
JagLover said:
I am just making a point that some (including the Guardian set) are trying to make excuses for these terrorists, just like Little Reds acquaintance
The only thing that annoyed me was that you lept from a quite reasonable point that some people remain in blissful ignorance of even the basic facts to a condemnation of your personal bug-bear, Guardian readers.
There is a healthy debate about responsiblility, appropriate response and how such things can be avoided in the future. I don't think name calling of any political faction, or decrying of past actions is appropriate in such a debate.
Anyway, here's a smile to show I'm cool with it, just not wanting this to slide into posturing
This shows it how it was: www.time.com/time/2005/london/eyewitness/?cnn=yes
cotty said:
I wish people would stop calling this a war as it certainly not my definition of a war
"armed fighting between two or more countries or groups" I mean who are we fighting??
Not to sound like an english nazi, but can't war be an abstract concept too ? like 'the war on drugs' or 'the war on drink driving', etc ?
JagLover said:
The thing that most sticks in my mind is the British detainees at Guantamalo bay (hope I spelt that right), I'm sure they were in Afghanistan learning flower arranging so of course we should set them all free and not monitor them.
If we could prove they did anything then I'd be with you (One of them wasn't even in Afghanistan.) Unfortunately we can't, so as we are civilised people with a proper justice system we have to release them.
Sorry. Your friend has a point. We have fought factions in the Middle East for over a thousand years, ever since the crusades.
Neither of us have really gained anything through this conflict, our national and religious territories are much the same as they were 500 years ago. Our current invasion of the Middle East countries is easily matched by their previous invasions of Eastern Europe and Spain.
They view the American ships, planes and other weapons in the Gulf, their support for Isreal, their attempts to replace, infiltrate and destabilise Middle East governments; democracies, dictators and theocracies, as a deliberate and sustained continuation of this conflict. The same can be said of the attack on America on September 11th 2001, a deliberate continuation of the conflict on behalf of a Middle East faction.
For as long as we provoke them they will provoke us. And vice versa. For as long as we attack them they will continue to attack us. And vice versa.
We should stop this ongoing conflict with the Middle East. Not for them, or for ourselves, but for our future generations. It is time for us to stop so that both our societies can progress in peace. It will be a long time before we are friends but a thousand years of conflict is long enough.
Neither of us have really gained anything through this conflict, our national and religious territories are much the same as they were 500 years ago. Our current invasion of the Middle East countries is easily matched by their previous invasions of Eastern Europe and Spain.
They view the American ships, planes and other weapons in the Gulf, their support for Isreal, their attempts to replace, infiltrate and destabilise Middle East governments; democracies, dictators and theocracies, as a deliberate and sustained continuation of this conflict. The same can be said of the attack on America on September 11th 2001, a deliberate continuation of the conflict on behalf of a Middle East faction.
For as long as we provoke them they will provoke us. And vice versa. For as long as we attack them they will continue to attack us. And vice versa.
We should stop this ongoing conflict with the Middle East. Not for them, or for ourselves, but for our future generations. It is time for us to stop so that both our societies can progress in peace. It will be a long time before we are friends but a thousand years of conflict is long enough.
mechsympathy said:
The thing that most sticks in my mind is the British detainees at Guantamalo bay (hope I spelt that right), I'm sure they were in Afghanistan learning flower arranging so of course we should set them all free and not monitor them.
If we could prove they did anything then I'd be with you (One of them wasn't even in Afghanistan.) Unfortunately we can't, so as we are civilised people with a proper justice system we have to release them.
One would assume MI5 would be watching them, as they presumably don't need legal justification to monitor someone, or do they ?
Little Red said:
I just got into a discussion with someone (although I asked them if we could stop talking about it) about yesterdays events in London. They said to me (and I quote) " You can't take this attack personally, they are just fighting the war the only way they know how"
When I challenged them as to who 'they' were, they hadn't got a clue who they were talking about but went on to say that 'they'had been attacked in 'their' country too.
I swear, the ignorance of people sometimes astounds me.
Hmmm, could easily be Iraqi's or Afghanis I suppose. You don't know either, so don't really have any argument either way.
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