New proposals on school hours
Discussion
I looked in the paper today and to my amazement a Labour minister was actually proposing something sensible & useful.
Ruth Kelly the education secretary is proposing that schools should be open from 8am to 6pm to help working parents. Whether the resources will be made available to achieve this is another matter.
See full story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4084670.stm
Ruth Kelly the education secretary is proposing that schools should be open from 8am to 6pm to help working parents. Whether the resources will be made available to achieve this is another matter.
See full story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4084670.stm
Apache said:
"The £680m programme will be supervised by volunteers or private companies, rather than teachers".
That's a shame really as I think it could work if you were to use teachers working a late and early shift. Any staff got an input on this one?
They don't need teachers, they just need someone to keep the kids entertained until their parents show up. If they use the time for sports it might help with the childhood obesity problem.
D_Mike said:
Children don't learn that well over such long periods of time... also you'd need to employ double the number of teachers and classes would have 2 teachers...
If you read it, it looks like they're not necessarily talking about lessons, but that they're expanding the school's capacity for extracurricular activities either side of the usual working school day.
I suppose, if a pupil got there at 8 and lessons started at 9, they could use the library to do some homework, then at the end of the day you'd get an all-enveloping number of classes based on the pupils interests, rather than GCSE requirements, that they could do afterwards.
I think it's a good idea, so long as they lay on US-style buses in the morning. That way, you solve the problem of essentially two commutes being done at once by parents. It also means that parents wouldn't necessarily have to use their cars, and they could also get home and do the evening 'school run' after the rush hour. Makes sense to me. Works in continental Europe too.
sadly, although it is undoubtedly an excellent idea,it would never work. Teachers would never agree to it.
in my experience teachers are so precious about 'how much they have to do' and 'how many hours they already work' that the proposal of earlier starts/ later finishes, even if it resulted in better working conditions/ less hours/ less pressure/ more responsive students, would be rejected outright.
i work with over 1500 schools and most often the teachers attitude and willingness to embrace change is the weakest link in the school chain. i understand it of course, they have a tough job to do, often with little thanks. BUT, sometimes, even when help is being offered, they can be guilty of deliberately ignoring offers and trading on their 'overworked' status, almost self-destructively.
Making any kind of change in the school system, even if it is patently for the good as in this case, is next to impossible because of this resistance. I wish that it were not the case, as an idea like this would be of huge benefit to teachers and staff, and moreover, it would be hugely beneficial to students. but itll never happen.
and before, i get jumped all over for saying this, i stress that i speak only from my own experience of working with 'only' as many schools as i have, and of course there are teachers who would heartily embrace it and who are of course still open minded about the work they do, and still wish to make a difference.
in my experience teachers are so precious about 'how much they have to do' and 'how many hours they already work' that the proposal of earlier starts/ later finishes, even if it resulted in better working conditions/ less hours/ less pressure/ more responsive students, would be rejected outright.
i work with over 1500 schools and most often the teachers attitude and willingness to embrace change is the weakest link in the school chain. i understand it of course, they have a tough job to do, often with little thanks. BUT, sometimes, even when help is being offered, they can be guilty of deliberately ignoring offers and trading on their 'overworked' status, almost self-destructively.
Making any kind of change in the school system, even if it is patently for the good as in this case, is next to impossible because of this resistance. I wish that it were not the case, as an idea like this would be of huge benefit to teachers and staff, and moreover, it would be hugely beneficial to students. but itll never happen.
and before, i get jumped all over for saying this, i stress that i speak only from my own experience of working with 'only' as many schools as i have, and of course there are teachers who would heartily embrace it and who are of course still open minded about the work they do, and still wish to make a difference.
£680million? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Let's see -
You need 1 supervisor for every 20 kids (say)
You need to pay them for 4 hours per day at £7 per hour for 38 weeks of the year which is about £5k.
So an average school that has 1000 kids needs to have another 50 supervisors costing them £250,000 per year.
Then you have to cook them another meal a day at 60p so that's an extra £114,000 taking the total to £360,000 per school per year.
If you gave most schools that size another £360,000 per year they would much rather have another 10 teachers, or renovate every classroom in the school, get a decent heating sytstem, a swimming pool, etc.
What a f
king waste of money.
Let's see -
You need 1 supervisor for every 20 kids (say)
You need to pay them for 4 hours per day at £7 per hour for 38 weeks of the year which is about £5k.
So an average school that has 1000 kids needs to have another 50 supervisors costing them £250,000 per year.
Then you have to cook them another meal a day at 60p so that's an extra £114,000 taking the total to £360,000 per school per year.
If you gave most schools that size another £360,000 per year they would much rather have another 10 teachers, or renovate every classroom in the school, get a decent heating sytstem, a swimming pool, etc.
What a f
king waste of money.FunkyNige said:
If you gave most schools that size another £360,000 per year they would much rather have another 10 teachers, or renovate every classroom in the school, get a decent heating sytstem, a swimming pool, etc.
What a f
Labour waste money on a collosal scale, at least this expenditure will help working families.
Jaglover said:
"The £680m programme will be supervised by volunteers or private companies, rather than teachers".
That's a shame really as I think it could work if you were to use teachers working a late and early shift. Any staff got an input on this one?
They don't need teachers, they just need someone to keep the kids entertained until their parents show up. If they use the time for sports it might help with the childhood obesity problem.
there ya go and it needn't cost that much either
nervous said:
sadly, although it is undoubtedly an excellent idea,it would never work. Teachers would never agree to it.
in my experience teachers are so precious about 'how much they have to do' and 'how many hours they already work' that the proposal of earlier starts/ later finishes, even if it resulted in better working conditions/ less hours/ less pressure/ more responsive students, would be rejected outright.
i work with over 1500 schools and most often the teachers attitude and willingness to embrace change is the weakest link in the school chain. i understand it of course, they have a tough job to do, often with little thanks. BUT, sometimes, even when help is being offered, they can be guilty of deliberately ignoring offers and trading on their 'overworked' status, almost self-destructively.
Making any kind of change in the school system, even if it is patently for the good as in this case, is next to impossible because of this resistance. I wish that it were not the case, as an idea like this would be of huge benefit to teachers and staff, and moreover, it would be hugely beneficial to students. but itll never happen.
and before, i get jumped all over for saying this, i stress that i speak only from my own experience of working with 'only' as many schools as i have, and of course there are teachers who would heartily embrace it and who are of course still open minded about the work they do, and still wish to make a difference.
Yes - I have read your last paragraph, but I'm still going to jump on you
We've been running this scheme at our school now for 2 years and it works fine AND the teachers are in favour of it. It is run separately to the main school, but on the school premises. Basically it is a cross between a child-minding service and a youth club.
Nervous - you really seem to have it in for teachers. If you work with 1500 schools (!), you can't really be getting to know the staff in each school very well, so don't tar us all with the same brush. I hope that this thread doesn't turn into yet another 'let's slag off teachers' thread...they do get a bit repetitive and tedious!
no, not at all. if i did have it in for teachers i wouldnt be in a job where my sole purpose was to help them, would i?
im glad the scheme works for you, i truly hope that it can elsewhere. i wasnt teacher bashing in the traditional way in which it happens in public debate, all of my comments are informed by my experience not just blind opinion. again, if i wished my thoughts to be the case, and all teachers to be unwilling to change, i would not be doing the job im doing. After all, it is definitley not for the money: i do this because i want to help.
im glad the scheme works for you, i truly hope that it can elsewhere. i wasnt teacher bashing in the traditional way in which it happens in public debate, all of my comments are informed by my experience not just blind opinion. again, if i wished my thoughts to be the case, and all teachers to be unwilling to change, i would not be doing the job im doing. After all, it is definitley not for the money: i do this because i want to help.
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