Manufacturing in GB dead?
Discussion
I work at Triumph Motorcycles and they are building 2 new Factories in Thailand, this would seem to spell the end of UK manufacturing, I may have my present job for 2 years or so but what then?, I dont want to fill shelves at the local Tesco!, if our Manufacturing is all going abroad shall I then go with it and move there or what!, I am no youngster either, so what will I do, go on the Dole?, turn to Crime? after all it does seem to pay nowadays
manitee
manitee
Doomsday I tell you! 
You could move with the factory but do you really want to spend your life standing on a production line? Not entirely desirable.
I know this may not fit with many PHers views but from my perspective the movement of the automotive manufacturing industry out of the UK is both inevitable and not entirely a bad thing. The kind of automotive production work British people engage in now tends to lean towards the management, design and small-scale production. This has not come about over night, for many years the Britain has been at the forefront of the industry and this is a natural progression. At a fundamental level manufacturing in the UK has become less viable because generally those who would have worked on production lines have been ambitious and will no longer fit headlights to a Rover 75 at an acceptable price because they know they can get paid more in another job/industry. It is a positive sign IMO.
You could move with the factory but do you really want to spend your life standing on a production line? Not entirely desirable.
I know this may not fit with many PHers views but from my perspective the movement of the automotive manufacturing industry out of the UK is both inevitable and not entirely a bad thing. The kind of automotive production work British people engage in now tends to lean towards the management, design and small-scale production. This has not come about over night, for many years the Britain has been at the forefront of the industry and this is a natural progression. At a fundamental level manufacturing in the UK has become less viable because generally those who would have worked on production lines have been ambitious and will no longer fit headlights to a Rover 75 at an acceptable price because they know they can get paid more in another job/industry. It is a positive sign IMO.
manitee said:
I work at Triumph Motorcycles and they are building 2 new Factories in Thailand, this would seem to spell the end of UK manufacturing, I may have my present job for 2 years or so but what then?, I dont want to fill shelves at the local Tesco!, if our Manufacturing is all going abroad shall I then go with it and move there or what!, I am no youngster either, so what will I do, go on the Dole?, turn to Crime? after all it does seem to pay nowadays
Start training for a new trade now. You have plenty of time and could probably do rather nicely for yourself if you became a self employed plumber or electrician. Or if you currently assemble motorcycles, can you cross train to repair them?
speedy_thrills said:
I know this may not fit with many PHers views but from my perspective the movement of the automotive manufacturing industry out of the UK is both inevitable and not entirely a bad thing. The kind of automotive production work British people engage in now tends to lean towards the management, design and small-scale production. This has not come about over night, for many years the Britain has been at the forefront of the industry and this is a natural progression. At a fundamental level manufacturing in the UK has become less viable because generally those who would have worked on production lines have been ambitious and will no longer fit headlights to a Rover 75 at an acceptable price because they know they can get paid more in another job/industry. It is a positive sign IMO.
Well said, this is the future of manufacturing in the west.
It is what Dyson have done and they are flourishing.
JagLover said:
I know this may not fit with many PHers views but from my perspective the movement of the automotive manufacturing industry out of the UK is both inevitable and not entirely a bad thing. The kind of automotive production work British people engage in now tends to lean towards the management, design and small-scale production. This has not come about over night, for many years the Britain has been at the forefront of the industry and this is a natural progression. At a fundamental level manufacturing in the UK has become less viable because generally those who would have worked on production lines have been ambitious and will no longer fit headlights to a Rover 75 at an acceptable price because they know they can get paid more in another job/industry. It is a positive sign IMO.
Well said, this is the future of manufacturing in the west.
It is what Dyson have done and they are flourishing.
Exactly... adapt and survive. It's what we're best at.
All this doom and gloom. People were saying exactly the same thing about Japan, Taiwan and South Korea in the 70's.
Witchfinder said:I thought the Triumph factories at Hinckley was state of the art, roboticised, minimal labour? One is less than ten years old ferchrissakes. Or am I thinking of somewhere else?
I work at Triumph Motorcycles and they are building 2 new Factories in Thailand, this would seem to spell the end of UK manufacturing, I may have my present job for 2 years or so but what then?, I dont want to fill shelves at the local Tesco!, if our Manufacturing is all going abroad shall I then go with it and move there or what!, I am no youngster either, so what will I do, go on the Dole?, turn to Crime? after all it does seem to pay nowadays
Start training for a new trade now. You have plenty of time and could probably do rather nicely for yourself if you became a self employed plumber or electrician. Or if you currently assemble motorcycles, can you cross train to repair them?
I can't see that labour costs are a huge part of the cost base, and I'd be surprised if savings in that area were the primary reason for relocation. Is this rather a visionary expansion rather than relocation? Huge market in China, Thailand on the doorstep, company making lots of cash and looking for investment potential ...
Do you actually know your job is at risk?
telecat said:
I'm starting to avoid chinese made goods. Even those made under western supervision are proving to be a little suspect. I'm trying to buy items that are a little more substantial.
If you REALLY want the crap frightening out of you, I was told today by a Rolls-Royce employee that certain aero engine parts are made for them in China...
manitee said:
I work at Triumph Motorcycles and they are building 2 new Factories in Thailand, this would seem to spell the end of UK manufacturing, I may have my present job for 2 years or so but what then?, I dont want to fill shelves at the local Tesco!, if our Manufacturing is all going abroad shall I then go with it and move there or what!, I am no youngster either, so what will I do, go on the Dole?, turn to Crime? after all it does seem to pay nowadays
manitee
Hello from another Hinckley chap. I though the new factories were going to be used for component production only with final assembly still performed in Hinckley?
Automotive manufacturing around Hinckley is probably the strongest in the coutnry with both Noble and Ultima going great guns. With Nobles M14 project looking likely to sell considerable amounts maybe a move to Barwell is worth considering?
Matt
wedg1e said:
I'm starting to avoid chinese made goods. Even those made under western supervision are proving to be a little suspect. I'm trying to buy items that are a little more substantial.
If you REALLY want the crap frightening out of you, I was told today by a Rolls-Royce employee that certain aero engine parts are made for them in China...
and...?
everything in the aero industry is inspected to a certain spec - the therory goes that if the chinese can make one in three parts to the correct spec limits for say 1/5th the price per part then its worth it.
I build aero engines at an overhaul facility in GB. We are the world leaders in the engine type we do and even have the likes of toyota visiting us to learn lean manufacturing best practices. However, most of our rework now goes to vendors all over the world - makes no odds who as long as they're to the spec asked. Parts are receipt inspected, go through regular inspection, conformance inspection and always inspected before being fitted. We now have a subsiduary doing repairs in Hungary that made motorbikes under communism.
w00dy said:
telecat said:
I'm starting to avoid chinese made goods. Even those made under western supervision are proving to be a little suspect. I'm trying to buy items that are a little more substantial.
If you REALLY want the crap frightening out of you, I was told today by a Rolls-Royce employee that certain aero engine parts are made for them in China...
and...?
everything in the aero industry is inspected to a certain spec - the therory goes that if the chinese can make one in three parts to the correct spec limits for say 1/5th the price per part then its worth it.
I build aero engines at an overhaul facility in GB. We are the world leaders in the engine type we do and even have the likes of toyota visiting us to learn lean manufacturing best practices. However, most of our rework now goes to vendors all over the world - makes no odds who as long as they're to the spec asked. Parts are receipt inspected, go through regular inspection, conformance inspection and always inspected before being fitted. We now have a subsiduary doing repairs in Hungary that made motorbikes under communism.
Er.... the plant I was at is where you live.
I know the parts are inspected; I service, maintain and calibrate inspection equipment
Most of us would still prefer it if you used parts made by fellow British craftsmen (though I know the accountants rule, nowadays).
Ian
aye, but most manufacturing work is semi-skilled. Not only that but most repair work is non-value added. putting it to overseas vendors has allowed us to increase volume as our semi skilled are now more involved in revenue generating processes. For the first time in 5 years we are taking on people. Not only that but they're mostly in skilled jobs. This is long term as well, we're the forerunners to be the first GEnX (B787/7E7/dreamliner and A350) certified shop, mostly down to our skill level and heritage which the parent company has found it cant match elsewhere in the world. We'll need $6m or so for a new cell though. IIRC Rolls are after funding to open a new foundry near Glasgow as well.
wedg1e said:
telecat said:
If you REALLY want the crap frightening out of you, I was told today by a Rolls-Royce employee that certain aero engine parts are made for them in China...
and...?
everything in the aero industry is inspected to a certain spec - the therory goes that if the chinese can make one in three parts to the correct spec limits for say 1/5th the price per part then its worth it.
Most of us would still prefer it if you used parts made by fellow British craftsmen (though I know the accountants rule, nowadays).
Ian
I'm also in aerospace manufacturing - I'm pleased to report very much alive and well in the uk. It's not a case of sentimentally chosing parts by 'British Craftsmen' vs accountants; most customers will always go for lower price - quality is a given and we shouldn't kid ourselves that quality of parts out of other countries is any lower. Non-conformance in our plants in China is similar to uk standards; albeit generally on simpler parts.
Where part manufacture is manually intensive, we (uk) simply can't compete with labour costs in China or Czech Republic - fact of life. (although cost of living => cost of labour in Czech has increased significantly in last 3 years; I guess China is not far behind!)
Where uk is competing and winning is in the high tech, complex parts that need novel manufacturing techniques. That's how UK manufacturing is staying ahead - through technology input and innovation. See the success in the uk of motorsport and aerospace etc.
Just my 2p'worth.
Nick_Chim said:
w00dy said:
telecat said:
If you REALLY want the crap frightening out of you, I was told today by a Rolls-Royce employee that certain aero engine parts are made for them in China...
and...?
everything in the aero industry is inspected to a certain spec - the therory goes that if the chinese can make one in three parts to the correct spec limits for say 1/5th the price per part then its worth it.
Most of us would still prefer it if you used parts made by fellow British craftsmen (though I know the accountants rule, nowadays).
Ian
I'm also in aerospace manufacturing - I'm pleased to report very much alive and well in the uk. It's not a case of sentimentally chosing parts by 'British Craftsmen' vs accountants; most customers will always go for lower price - quality is a given and we shouldn't kid ourselves that quality of parts out of other countries is any lower. Non-conformance in our plants in China is similar to uk standards; albeit generally on simpler parts.
Where part manufacture is manually intensive, we (uk) simply can't compete with labour costs in China or Czech Republic - fact of life. (although cost of living => cost of labour in Czech has increased significantly in last 3 years; I guess China is not far behind!)
Where uk is competing and winning is in the high tech, complex parts that need novel manufacturing techniques. That's how UK manufacturing is staying ahead - through technology input and innovation. See the success in the uk of motorsport and aerospace etc.
Just my 2p'worth.
// A more coherent version of what i meant to say.
Sorry, I have to disagree with the line 'parts quality from overseas isn't lower'.
Yes it bloody well is. Me Julie's brother works for a company that imports machine tools from China and the Far East; many are variations of, or derivations from old British/ German tools that went out of production years ago and the casting dies etc. were sold off.
Firstly a lot of the formers, dies etc. are worn, then the castings are produced from poor quality alloys, then they are assembled and finished badly, then they are transported badly.
Finally they arrive in the UK, are re-badged as 'Made in UK' and sold, often back to other foreign manufacturers who are labouring under the misapprehension that they are buying British quality.
One thing that really ar5es me off is the likes of Machine Mart selling this tat; lathes, mills etc. that have more slack in their moving parts than a 50+ year old Brit tool that has seen real service. Play in bearings so bad that you couldn't drill a hole within 5mm accuracy, let alone 5 thou.
You can buy an angle grinder in Netto now for £9.99. FFS how much did it cost to produce!? Must have been pennies. Now, about these tellies that 'cost' £3000...
Yes it bloody well is. Me Julie's brother works for a company that imports machine tools from China and the Far East; many are variations of, or derivations from old British/ German tools that went out of production years ago and the casting dies etc. were sold off.
Firstly a lot of the formers, dies etc. are worn, then the castings are produced from poor quality alloys, then they are assembled and finished badly, then they are transported badly.
Finally they arrive in the UK, are re-badged as 'Made in UK' and sold, often back to other foreign manufacturers who are labouring under the misapprehension that they are buying British quality.
One thing that really ar5es me off is the likes of Machine Mart selling this tat; lathes, mills etc. that have more slack in their moving parts than a 50+ year old Brit tool that has seen real service. Play in bearings so bad that you couldn't drill a hole within 5mm accuracy, let alone 5 thou.
You can buy an angle grinder in Netto now for £9.99. FFS how much did it cost to produce!? Must have been pennies. Now, about these tellies that 'cost' £3000...
I got out of engineering back in 91. Where I worked the writing was already on the wall back then. It was a case of jump as a big fish in a little sea, or wait until we were pushed when I would have become a little fish in a big sea.
That was just after serving five years getting a City & Guilds as a precision fitter. It seems a shame to waste it, but now I'm in IT. I get more respect and more money. It's a shame, but engineering is better suited to being a hobby in the UK these days.
That was just after serving five years getting a City & Guilds as a precision fitter. It seems a shame to waste it, but now I'm in IT. I get more respect and more money. It's a shame, but engineering is better suited to being a hobby in the UK these days.
Quinny said:
This is what I always think about before flying
A plane is made from hundreds of thousands of individual parts
All suplied by the lowest tender
Andy.
But made to a given and highly regulated quality standard! Safest form of travel there is!! It's far more dangerous flying in my Chimaera (did I say that out loud?)
. >> Edited by Nick_Chim on Friday 10th June 22:34
BliarOut said:
It's a shame, but engineering is better suited to being a hobby in the UK these days.
True. I met a guy who was telling me that he built a miniature gas turbine, milling each blade from solid.
He yacked on about how he had to source very expensive ceramic bearings for it to spin in, and how he reckoned it made 2hp from something that would sit on the palm of your hand. I nodded politely and bid him farewell. Then a mate told me he's seen it and it really does work
As an aside: on Wednesday I was in Belfast with a work colleague who we're training up to take over some of the firld service work.
I took him to the old Harland & Wolff yard, currently being demolished to make way for the Titanic business park or whatever.
We stood on the spot where the world's most famous ship was built and marvelled at the new H&W facility, empty but for a few yellow legs off something and a boat so small you wouldn't want to go out on the local duckpond in it, in for a refit.
Historically Northern Ireland's biggest employer, reduced to tarting up things that were originally built overseas, on the cheap
And Shorts, historically N.I.s other biggest employer (alternating with H&W depending on the fortunes of transportation), now part of a global empire, building bits of planes rather than complete ones. The slipway where the Sunderland flying boats were launched is still there, but you should see the blank looks you get if you mention the fact to some of the employees...
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