labour invade private hozzies
Discussion
Well, you have worked hard, taken the touble to have private health insurance to enable you to be treated faster and in better (non scum infested) surroundings and what happens?
Labour, identifying that the private sector performs better than the NHS want to buy into it.
So your private health insurance premiums,used to build nice clean comfortable facilities, will be trashed in no time with the influx of scrotes.
On the other hand, the private hospitals are just being greedy, They should tell the Gov. to piss off.
Sorry if I sound arrogant, but I recently spent a little time in an NHS ward and it was bloody horrible.
Labour, identifying that the private sector performs better than the NHS want to buy into it.
So your private health insurance premiums,used to build nice clean comfortable facilities, will be trashed in no time with the influx of scrotes.
On the other hand, the private hospitals are just being greedy, They should tell the Gov. to piss off.
Sorry if I sound arrogant, but I recently spent a little time in an NHS ward and it was bloody horrible.
andygo said:
So your private health insurance premiums,used to build nice clean comfortable facilities, will be trashed in no time with the influx of scrotes.
Yeah, that's right, because only 'scrotes with no money' use the NHS and being so poor and unworthy, don't have the right to clean and healthy recoveries do they?
I think you posted this in a bit of a rush. I recommend you rephrase it.
Like you, my Dad has worked bloody hard and earnt plenty of money, but he'd have to have been a millionaire to get some of his past NHS treatments.
Start devaluing the NHS and you essentially end up saying that people have to pay for their survival. Keeping people alive is expensive (not helped by exploitative drug companies), but if you go down the US route you either end up with people dying or suffering needlessly because they can't afford medical insurance or medical care, or families - and not necessarily 'poor' ones either - being lumbered by generational debt because someone had the misfortune to fall ill.
IMO insurance should only be paid on things you can do something about.
Start devaluing the NHS and you essentially end up saying that people have to pay for their survival. Keeping people alive is expensive (not helped by exploitative drug companies), but if you go down the US route you either end up with people dying or suffering needlessly because they can't afford medical insurance or medical care, or families - and not necessarily 'poor' ones either - being lumbered by generational debt because someone had the misfortune to fall ill.
IMO insurance should only be paid on things you can do something about.
Having experienced both, I would say there's nothing better then the NHS when it's a life threatening situation. If I was in trouble, I would prefer it to being private.
But, when I'm in ruder health, things like the quality of the tea service in a private hospital matter. Horses for courses and all that
But, when I'm in ruder health, things like the quality of the tea service in a private hospital matter. Horses for courses and all that
andygo said:
Well, you have worked hard, taken the touble to have private health insurance to enable you to be treated faster and in better (non scum infested) surroundings and what happens?
Whoopsie here I think!
I had and still have private health insurance through work - have used it once with very satisfactory results.
However, the NHS saved my life - lots of stories of being rushed to A&E, and waiting on trolleys...I was in triage within 2 minutes, and on the operating table within 12 hours. The whole ward (gynacology - yuk) thing wasn't pleasant afterwards - but the care I got was the best they could manage - as my problem wasn't baby related!! And this was in one of the 'worst' hospitals - Whipps Cross.
The nastiest thing was the food - made the bf bring me in M&S goodies!!
Top marks to all the staff there - they had to operate to find out my problem, and had they not acted so quickly, I wouldn't be here now.
miniman said:
IMO insurance should only be paid on things you can do something about.
Are you having a laugh or what? Surely the whole premise of insurance is that it's covering you specifically against things you can do NOTHING about?
Perhaps you misread me. If you have bought a car, you pay car insurance to cover for repairs and accidents. If you have bought a house, you pay home and contents insurance. If you pay to go on holiday, you pay travel insurance etc.
Now precisely when did you 'buy' yourself?
Human beings are not commercial commodities, and life is a right, not a privledge.
I can see his point, the reason we have medical insurance is to get treatment more quickly than the NHS can offer. Due to the fact the NHS cannot now keep the promises of labour, the private hospitals I would use, will now be full of NHS patients. We miss the fundemental point, if these hospitals who make a profit can do the job with staff paid higher salareies quicker and better than the NHS, then instead of using the private sector fix the problem with the NHS.
It strikes me that the NHS is being privatised more under labour than the Tories could ever dream of.
It strikes me that the NHS is being privatised more under labour than the Tories could ever dream of.
I have private medical insurance, and I pay for my wife and I have been dependant on the NHS for a number of years, I have condition which means I get “Free” prescriptions, paid for many times over – but grateful nonetheless.
I have no doubt that I more than pay for my use of the NHS so do not feel I abuse it in anyway.
I agree with others on here who say that given a life threatening situation I would choose the NHS every time, I know the skill and commitment these people have through personal experience and also from living next door to an A & E doctor.
The reason for the private medical insurance is for things like the removal of my wife's impacted wisdom teeth last year - it was done within 8 weeks when her dentist expected a wait of over a year if done via the NHS. I'm glad we were in a position to have it done quicker, to save her pain, and also pleased that we removed some pressure on that waiting list.
It does seem a little off that the NHS is using private health care - basically it means I'm paying for it twice, I hope I will get the same service, but anyway I would not deny anyone the treatment. Perhaps if they made private medical insurance contributions tax free that would be some sort of incentive, could boost private medical services and creating growth, without removing a huge sum from taxes.
I have no doubt that I more than pay for my use of the NHS so do not feel I abuse it in anyway.
I agree with others on here who say that given a life threatening situation I would choose the NHS every time, I know the skill and commitment these people have through personal experience and also from living next door to an A & E doctor.
The reason for the private medical insurance is for things like the removal of my wife's impacted wisdom teeth last year - it was done within 8 weeks when her dentist expected a wait of over a year if done via the NHS. I'm glad we were in a position to have it done quicker, to save her pain, and also pleased that we removed some pressure on that waiting list.
It does seem a little off that the NHS is using private health care - basically it means I'm paying for it twice, I hope I will get the same service, but anyway I would not deny anyone the treatment. Perhaps if they made private medical insurance contributions tax free that would be some sort of incentive, could boost private medical services and creating growth, without removing a huge sum from taxes.
The NHS will be paying the private hospitals for the services they provide. They will be able to use this revenue to expand capacity thus being able to serve both private and NHS patients.
If private hospitals taking NHS work compromised the service to their private paying patients then you would get new private hospitals starting up and refusing to take NHS work and advertising that fact. They would then take the private business from the original private hospitals. If they’ve got any business acumen they would not allow that to happen.
Market forces in action. I don’t have a problem with that.
If private hospitals taking NHS work compromised the service to their private paying patients then you would get new private hospitals starting up and refusing to take NHS work and advertising that fact. They would then take the private business from the original private hospitals. If they’ve got any business acumen they would not allow that to happen.
Market forces in action. I don’t have a problem with that.
t1grm said:
The NHS will be paying the private hospitals for the services they provide. They will be able to use this revenue to expand capacity thus being able to serve both private and NHS patients.
If private hospitals taking NHS work compromised the service to their private paying patients then you would get new private hospitals starting up and refusing to take NHS work and advertising that fact. They would then take the private business from the original private hospitals. If they’ve got any business acumen they would not allow that to happen.
Yes indeed, somewhat surprisingly Labour is showing a good Conservative way forward on the health issue, the state paying for the treatment, but not providing that treatment-a far better basis on which to build a modern health care system rather than the centralised NHS.
DanBoy said:
I use the NHS. It's far from perfect but it's probably saved me alot of pain for free... It might even have saved my life!
It isn't free. You pay through the nose for it and subsidise lots of other people who don't contribute anything, and lots of people who work within it who are blatent parasites. The fact that it works at all is astonishing and a fantastic reflection of the work of the Doctors and Nurses who effectively paddle the Titanic.
andygo said:
Well, you have worked hard, taken the touble to have private health insurance to enable you to be treated faster and in better (non scum infested) surroundings and what happens?
Labour, identifying that the private sector performs better than the NHS want to buy into it.
So your private health insurance premiums,used to build nice clean comfortable facilities, will be trashed in no time with the influx of scrotes.
On the other hand, the private hospitals are just being greedy, They should tell the Gov. to piss off.
Sorry if I sound arrogant, but I recently spent a little time in an NHS ward and it was bloody horrible.
One big error in your post is that you think the private sector performs better than the NHS. It doesn't.
This is a big myth. Yes your surroundings are nicer, and you get nicer food, but the care you receive is far less monitored. In my field, the government has used NHS money to pay Doctors from S Africa and America to come here and set up mobile treatment units to do Cataract surgery.
Now this is a huge betrayal, as we more than have the capacity to slash thru the waiting lists, but successive governments over the years have cut our funding and removed our theatre time (yes, both Labour and Tory are to blame here).
So the govt pays Netcare surgeons 500000 GBP a year EACH!! to do high volume cataract surgery. They could employ 5 NHS consultants at 100000GBP a year to increase productivity 5 times, if only they were allowed to have more use of theatre.
Not only that, the figures that Netcare used, when tendering for the contract were compared with the 1991 Cataract figures in the UK. The government didnt question their figures as they dindnt seek the opinion of the Ophthalmologists. In fact Netcares complication rate is quite high.
A win win situation if you ask me. The private sector hospitals get to utilize slack capacity while more patients are treated overall.
It’s also worth remembering that while private health care users still have to make national Insurance payments. The private sector hospitals don’t generally contribute to the training of medical staff. Most of them will have been trained courtesy of the NHS.
It’s also worth remembering that while private health care users still have to make national Insurance payments. The private sector hospitals don’t generally contribute to the training of medical staff. Most of them will have been trained courtesy of the NHS.
c c said:
A win win situation if you ask me. The private sector hospitals get to utilize slack capacity while more patients are treated overall.
It’s also worth remembering that while private health care users still have to make national Insurance payments. The private sector hospitals don’t generally contribute to the training of medical staff. Most of them will have been trained courtesy of the NHS.
It's not slack capacity, it's chronic underfunding and mismanagement that has allowed the capacity in the NHS to be underutilised. It's lose lose, as we are paying over the odds to use facilities that we already have the staff to use. Coupled to this is the fact that the staff being contracted are offering inferior quality work, and are not contributing to the training of the local doctors, so when these companies eventually pack up and bugger off, the local trainees will have missed out on training and will be left with a huge mountain of work that they are unable to manage.
I’m sure the quality of the service at the point of delivery is as good if not better under the NHS but you can’t blame people circumventing the system to get treated quicker. It’s this ever expanding middle layer of crap that most people want to see cut out of the NHS. I don’t think anyone would argue that the doctors, nurses and surgeons are doing their job to the best of their ability.
>> Edited by t1grm on Saturday 14th May 18:48
>> Edited by t1grm on Saturday 14th May 18:48
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