Labour rolls over on working time directive
Discussion
Fantastic. Now we are signing up to European-style Labour laws. Political idealism kills competitiveness. This is a major step towards accepting the European constitution. Next stop - a German-style recession.
Euro-MPs back tighter work hours
The European Parliament has voted to scrap a key opt-out clause of the Working Time Directive on health and safety grounds.
The right to opt out could come to an end over a three-year period.
The changes to the directive limiting the working week in the EU to an average of 48 hours will now need to be approved by the Council of Ministers.
Under the current system - used more in the UK than elsewhere - individuals can opt out if they want to work longer.
The UK's Labour Government had claimed removing the opt-out would reduce business competitiveness and its retention had also been supported by hospitals and small business groups across the EU.
But the vote saw Labour MEPs opposed the government line and side with many Liberals, Socialists, Communists and Greens in supporting the changes.
Blocking vote?
MEPs voted by 378 to 262 in support of a number of changes to the directive.
WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE
Guarantees workers 11 hours' rest per day and regular breaks
Weekly working time of 48 hours, on average, or less
Minimum annual holiday of four weeks
Night working to be limited, usually, to eight hours out of 24
Guide to European Parliament
UK workers differ on opt-out
They also decided on-call time would be counted as working time in most instances, and average working hours could be calculated over a full year, rather than the present period of four months.
The UK Government will need to recruit other countries to retain the opt-out clause in the Council of Ministers under qualified majority voting.
The Working Time Directive was first agreed in 1993, and changes were debated as part of a 10-year review.
Unions in the UK supported the changes, claiming workers can be effectively forced into working unfairly long hours.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber welcomed the decision as a "victory for common sense".
Business concerns
There are concerns in the UK's National Health Service that the end of the opt-out for doctors would create staff shortages.
It flies in the face of the EU's decision to focus on growth and jobs
David Frost, BCC
But Gary Titley, the leader of the Labour MEPs, said the vote had been about achieving a good "work-life balance" for UK families.
"The measures we are supporting give workers a good degree of flexibility to manage their working hours," he said.
"Today's package of measures is a good settlement for healthcare workers with flexibility built in."
Conservative MEP Philip Bushill-Matthews described the proposals as "sheer nonsense."
"Quality of life is an issue, but why should politicians in Brussels decide that the way for people to get quality of life is to follow rules on a one-size-fits-all basis laid down at EU level?"
Business groups in the UK also voiced concerns.
"This vote is a blow for business and for Europe's future prosperity," said David Frost, Director General of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC).
"It flies in the face of the EU's decision to focus on growth and jobs and sends a strong message that the European Parliament is not interested in improving Europe's competitiveness."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4535815.stm
Euro-MPs back tighter work hours
The European Parliament has voted to scrap a key opt-out clause of the Working Time Directive on health and safety grounds.
The right to opt out could come to an end over a three-year period.
The changes to the directive limiting the working week in the EU to an average of 48 hours will now need to be approved by the Council of Ministers.
Under the current system - used more in the UK than elsewhere - individuals can opt out if they want to work longer.
The UK's Labour Government had claimed removing the opt-out would reduce business competitiveness and its retention had also been supported by hospitals and small business groups across the EU.
But the vote saw Labour MEPs opposed the government line and side with many Liberals, Socialists, Communists and Greens in supporting the changes.
Blocking vote?
MEPs voted by 378 to 262 in support of a number of changes to the directive.
WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE
Guarantees workers 11 hours' rest per day and regular breaks
Weekly working time of 48 hours, on average, or less
Minimum annual holiday of four weeks
Night working to be limited, usually, to eight hours out of 24
Guide to European Parliament
UK workers differ on opt-out
They also decided on-call time would be counted as working time in most instances, and average working hours could be calculated over a full year, rather than the present period of four months.
The UK Government will need to recruit other countries to retain the opt-out clause in the Council of Ministers under qualified majority voting.
The Working Time Directive was first agreed in 1993, and changes were debated as part of a 10-year review.
Unions in the UK supported the changes, claiming workers can be effectively forced into working unfairly long hours.
TUC general secretary Brendan Barber welcomed the decision as a "victory for common sense".
Business concerns
There are concerns in the UK's National Health Service that the end of the opt-out for doctors would create staff shortages.
It flies in the face of the EU's decision to focus on growth and jobs
David Frost, BCC
But Gary Titley, the leader of the Labour MEPs, said the vote had been about achieving a good "work-life balance" for UK families.
"The measures we are supporting give workers a good degree of flexibility to manage their working hours," he said.
"Today's package of measures is a good settlement for healthcare workers with flexibility built in."
Conservative MEP Philip Bushill-Matthews described the proposals as "sheer nonsense."
"Quality of life is an issue, but why should politicians in Brussels decide that the way for people to get quality of life is to follow rules on a one-size-fits-all basis laid down at EU level?"
Business groups in the UK also voiced concerns.
"This vote is a blow for business and for Europe's future prosperity," said David Frost, Director General of the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC).
"It flies in the face of the EU's decision to focus on growth and jobs and sends a strong message that the European Parliament is not interested in improving Europe's competitiveness."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4535815.stm
Excuse my ignorance.
Does this legislation apply to all businesses or just over a certain size?
I am on the verge of setting up a company and am looking forward to working all the hours I possibly can to make it a success.
Under this lunacy will someone be expecting me to keep timesheets etc?
Does this legislation apply to all businesses or just over a certain size?
I am on the verge of setting up a company and am looking forward to working all the hours I possibly can to make it a success.
Under this lunacy will someone be expecting me to keep timesheets etc?
Plotloss said:Yes, applies to all businesses whatever their size but doesn't yet apply to the self-employed (although it will in a couple of years).
Excuse my ignorance.
Does this legislation apply to all businesses or just over a certain size?
I am on the verge of setting up a company and am looking forward to working all the hours I possibly can to make it a success.
Under this lunacy will someone be expecting me to keep timesheets etc?
I have no problem with this at all...
If some one wants to work more than 40 odd hours that is their look-out but this protects those who don't and there are plenty of people like that about. 40 odd hours a week is more than enough anyway, work to live and all that, not the other way round! We work far to many hours in this country, I've never understood it even though I've done it...
If some one wants to work more than 40 odd hours that is their look-out but this protects those who don't and there are plenty of people like that about. 40 odd hours a week is more than enough anyway, work to live and all that, not the other way round! We work far to many hours in this country, I've never understood it even though I've done it...
Fantastic Daily Mail style post.
Headline “LABOUR ROLLS OVER ON WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE”
Body of story:
“The UK's Labour Government had claimed removing the opt-out would reduce business competitiveness.”
“The UK Government will need to recruit other countries' support to retain the opt-out clause in the Council of Ministers under qualified majority voting.”
“Government sources have told the BBC they are "disappointed" by the vote.”
However, they say that other countries also have concerns and are hopeful of securing a "blocking minority" to retain the opt-out.”
So credit should go where it’s due. The government is opposed to any change in the opt-out.
Criticism should go to the Labour MEPs for not following the government line.
Headline “LABOUR ROLLS OVER ON WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE”
Body of story:
“The UK's Labour Government had claimed removing the opt-out would reduce business competitiveness.”
“The UK Government will need to recruit other countries' support to retain the opt-out clause in the Council of Ministers under qualified majority voting.”
“Government sources have told the BBC they are "disappointed" by the vote.”
However, they say that other countries also have concerns and are hopeful of securing a "blocking minority" to retain the opt-out.”
So credit should go where it’s due. The government is opposed to any change in the opt-out.
Criticism should go to the Labour MEPs for not following the government line.
Plotloss said:
Excuse my ignorance.
Does this legislation apply to all businesses or just over a certain size?
I am on the verge of setting up a company and am looking forward to working all the hours I possibly can to make it a success.
Under this lunacy will someone be expecting me to keep timesheets etc?
errm, are you going to make a complaint about yourself?
"i say - i do 60 hours a week and am self employed. i need chastising!"
hell, do as many hours as you want. who is going to stop you?
Neezer said:
Hang on, does this actually mean that you CANNOT work more than 48 hours per week BY LAW, and HAVE to take 4 weeks holidays per year?
It can't surely be that can it? really? is this a joke?
Not exactly.
You have to take 4 weeks holiday a year, this can include Bank holidays,etc.
You cannot work an average of more than 48 hours a week over a 17 week rolling period (this is going to change to 26 weeks). It will be law for all employers, self employed will follow along later. It is already law for anyone driving a vehicle fitted with a tachograph. Infringements are dealt with punitively.
tinman0 said:
Excuse my ignorance.
Does this legislation apply to all businesses or just over a certain size?
I am on the verge of setting up a company and am looking forward to working all the hours I possibly can to make it a success.
Under this lunacy will someone be expecting me to keep timesheets etc?
errm, are you going to make a complaint about yourself?
"i say - i do 60 hours a week and am self employed. i need chastising!"
hell, do as many hours as you want. who is going to stop you?
That was the question I was asking...
If its not going to be regulated for everyone then I have no real problem.
Though I suspect this outlook may change should I employ someone...
Malc,
Chill (at least, a bit!)
One of Paxo's boys was explaining this on NN last night: CC is quite right ~ our glorious leader & co are indeed quite against this regime in practice (whatever they think in private or what the commie backbenchers may howl) ~ the correspondent reckoned this was very much part of Nulabia's 'pact' with business, a sort of tacit "we'll limit our tendency to Marxify everything" approach.
The real danger isn't from our lot - it's the Bruge monkey outpost - wherein as you've indicated, lot's of pointless continental douchebag politicos are hell bent of screwing over Alby's remaining competitiveness like their own, faltering domestic economies.
Having said that, I read the name 'Gary Titley' in there somewhere: hell's teeth - that man is feebleness incarnate - the thought of his ilk deciding anything to do with major economic strategems for business practice across Europe is diabolical.
My 2 month old son is infinitely better qualified than this wet monkfish to do the job. (I suspect he wears Farrah slacks, btw.)
Ruddy barstards!
Chill (at least, a bit!)
One of Paxo's boys was explaining this on NN last night: CC is quite right ~ our glorious leader & co are indeed quite against this regime in practice (whatever they think in private or what the commie backbenchers may howl) ~ the correspondent reckoned this was very much part of Nulabia's 'pact' with business, a sort of tacit "we'll limit our tendency to Marxify everything" approach.
The real danger isn't from our lot - it's the Bruge monkey outpost - wherein as you've indicated, lot's of pointless continental douchebag politicos are hell bent of screwing over Alby's remaining competitiveness like their own, faltering domestic economies.
Having said that, I read the name 'Gary Titley' in there somewhere: hell's teeth - that man is feebleness incarnate - the thought of his ilk deciding anything to do with major economic strategems for business practice across Europe is diabolical.
My 2 month old son is infinitely better qualified than this wet monkfish to do the job. (I suspect he wears Farrah slacks, btw.)
Ruddy barstards!
twit said:
I have no problem with this at all...
If some one wants to work more than 40 odd hours that is their look-out but this protects those who don't and there are plenty of people like that about. 40 odd hours a week is more than enough anyway, work to live and all that, not the other way round! We work far to many hours in this country, I've never understood it even though I've done it...
Think you've missed the point here. At the moment, those who want to work more than 48 hours a week can opt out. That option to opt out has just been removed. Once this comes into effect you will no longer be able to legally, whether willingly or not, work more than 48 hours a week. You don't get a say in the matter any more. More meddling leftie workshy nonsense
Neezer said:
Hang on, does this actually mean that you CANNOT work more than 48 hours per week BY LAW, and HAVE to take 4 weeks holidays per year?
It can't surely be that can it? really? is this a joke?
No joke, this is a typically centralised Europolitburo decision to automatically give the unions and other bunches of workshy skivers more say in government without them actually having been elected. Another block against freedom by centralistic socialism!
Neezer said:
Hang on, does this actually mean that you CANNOT work more than 48 hours per week BY LAW, and HAVE to take 4 weeks holidays per year?
It can't surely be that can it? really? is this a joke?
I think there will be flexibility. Think it means "average out per annum" 48 hours per week.
Thus some weeks you could work more hours ... but you cannot continue this indefinitely. Und I seem to recall reading in Germany that 48 hours could be exceeded for so many weeks - und then restricted to 48 hours for so many weeks. There appears ways of bending the directive then,
Those who really benefit are those salaried workers who are either unfortunate to find themselves mit rogue employer who never pays overtime und expects staff to work longer than contract und may be gives too much work to cope with in the 48 hours too - instead of hiring another und taking advantange of some benefit of hiring jobseeker - which I think ist also dangled as carrot which they either do not take or do not know of.
But then - are the people working these hours really being productive or "treading water" at times.
After all productivity per capita does seem bit higher abroad - but then .... these are gov stats we read
und they are all made up on the spot... 
But all work und no play .....makes you a dull boy (or girly)
(Und I start work very early in morning - as this means I can drive at speed I like
und ist before Steviebabes' talivan twit has had his bowl of muesli! It also means can browse on here und relax brain a little whilst think about stuff - und solve all my work problems und sticking point und get inspiration in the bath, und feeding youngest kitten....so you could say that being Mama und toppest scientist - never get any time off! )c c said:
Fantastic Daily Mail style post.
Headline “LABOUR ROLLS OVER ON WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE”
Body of story:
“The UK's Labour Government had claimed removing the opt-out would reduce business competitiveness.”
“The UK Government will need to recruit other countries' support to retain the opt-out clause in the Council of Ministers under qualified majority voting.”
“Government sources have told the BBC they are "disappointed" by the vote.”
However, they say that other countries also have concerns and are hopeful of securing a "blocking minority" to retain the opt-out.”
So credit should go where it’s due. The government is opposed to any change in the opt-out.
Criticism should go to the Labour MEPs for not following the government line.
Has the Govenrment actually challenged the Commission? No. Has the Government been able to exert any influence on the MEPs to follow its stated wish? No.
We can therefore safely assume that either:
1. The Government is not telling the truth and is actually happy to adopt the revised directive.
2. The Government has no influence over the way its own members vote and is therefore suffering from weak leadership and is horribly divided.
Which would you prefer?
I've just seen the BBC news website.
Unbelievable stupidity by the unelected communists.
Apparently, voices with the Government here have been muttering that 'we have sufficient friends' in Europe to diddle our way past this rather inconvenient lunacy.
Maybe, just maybe, that's the case with Billy in No.10; wonder what Gordo as PM would feel?
Whatever, it's all proof positive of my long term analysis surrounding the creeping stench of soft communism throughout western Europe which given sufficient free reign, will have us all pulling rickshaws and offering to shoe shine the patent leather booties of vacationing Shanghaians.
Decisions like this only convince me of our DESPERATE need to get the hell out of Europe, double quick.
Can you really imagine America, Japan or any of the emerging economies standing for this kind of populist sh1t?
I tell ya, we are being ruled by plutonium grade morons.
This is just totally unworkable!
Unbelievable stupidity by the unelected communists.
Apparently, voices with the Government here have been muttering that 'we have sufficient friends' in Europe to diddle our way past this rather inconvenient lunacy.
Maybe, just maybe, that's the case with Billy in No.10; wonder what Gordo as PM would feel?
Whatever, it's all proof positive of my long term analysis surrounding the creeping stench of soft communism throughout western Europe which given sufficient free reign, will have us all pulling rickshaws and offering to shoe shine the patent leather booties of vacationing Shanghaians.
Decisions like this only convince me of our DESPERATE need to get the hell out of Europe, double quick.
Can you really imagine America, Japan or any of the emerging economies standing for this kind of populist sh1t?
I tell ya, we are being ruled by plutonium grade morons.
This is just totally unworkable!
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