Homeopathy - Anyone complained?
Discussion
A scientist friend of mine is considering complaining about NHS funding of Homeopathy. (Be nice to him, he's already had the extrmely annoying Cillit Bang advert removed because of it's bad science 
)
If you would like some background on Homeopathy, try The skeptic's dictionary and CSICOP
Seeing as Pistonheads is a hot-bed of sensible people who have long accepted that the Earth is not flat, and we did land on the moon
I wondered if anyone else had done the same?
It rather sticks in my craw (sp?) as there is a homeopathic 'hospital' (they've got some class-A water there, I imagine) in the town where I live. Funded, of course, from the left hand side of my payslip. Which makes me
I don't really want to start an argument about whether Homeopathy works or not, because it doesn't, and could not ever work.
I was just wondering if anyone's complained about it being funded by the NHS? Where to start? MP? Health Minister?
Sorry for long post, quiet day!
) If you would like some background on Homeopathy, try The skeptic's dictionary and CSICOP
Seeing as Pistonheads is a hot-bed of sensible people who have long accepted that the Earth is not flat, and we did land on the moon
I wondered if anyone else had done the same? It rather sticks in my craw (sp?) as there is a homeopathic 'hospital' (they've got some class-A water there, I imagine) in the town where I live. Funded, of course, from the left hand side of my payslip. Which makes me
I don't really want to start an argument about whether Homeopathy works or not, because it doesn't, and could not ever work.
I was just wondering if anyone's complained about it being funded by the NHS? Where to start? MP? Health Minister? Sorry for long post, quiet day!
Didn't know it was funded by the NHS, but I disasagree that it doesn't work. I had extremely bad weeping eczema as a child and Homeopathy kept it under control when the doctors just kept giving me stornger steroid creams. Not too sure about this whole homeopahy for everything though.
birdbrain said:
I wasn't aware it was funded by the NHS? 
I had treatment from a homeopathic doctor and not only did it work, but I paid for it myself.
It is funded by the NHS, see here
Also just found a paper produced by the NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination at York University here
While I'm very pleased that you got better, I can't help thinking that you
a) Paid good money for, & ingested water.
b) got better at the same time.
The two things cannot possibly be related.
>> Edited by Raify on Monday 4th April 15:25
A few months ago I was talking to a client on the phone. Every few seconds he went "ouch", and eventually he said he was having accupunture for his bad back - it made me laugh. Anyway, not long ago I met him and asked how his back was and he said it's never been better since the treatment. I was a sceptic, but that got me thinking!
>> Edited by srebbe64 on Monday 4th April 15:33
>> Edited by srebbe64 on Monday 4th April 15:33
You had lots of little sugar pills coated in ONE drop of water that had a poison diluted in it.
An 18c solution is one drop of poison in all the water on earth.
A 30c solution, as a lot of the homeopathic treatments are is akin to one drop of poison in all the water in the universe.
Its water.
Why or if it works is up for debate.
An 18c solution is one drop of poison in all the water on earth.
A 30c solution, as a lot of the homeopathic treatments are is akin to one drop of poison in all the water in the universe.
Its water.
Why or if it works is up for debate.
The pills are made up of:
1. The 'active' ingredient, diluted in water / alcohol to such small amounts that not even 1 molecule of the ingredient can remain
2. Some binding agent to make it into a pill.
the whole premise of Homeopathy is that water has a 'memory' and remembers what was disolved into it (and then diluted 1 million times)
IIRC, in Canada, some scientists held a mass Homeopathic suicide outside a H.P. hospital, by drinking Cyanide diluted to Homeopathic levels.
None of them died btw, or even got ill. I think their complection got better from all the water though
>> Edited by Raify on Monday 4th April 15:38
1. The 'active' ingredient, diluted in water / alcohol to such small amounts that not even 1 molecule of the ingredient can remain
2. Some binding agent to make it into a pill.
the whole premise of Homeopathy is that water has a 'memory' and remembers what was disolved into it (and then diluted 1 million times)
IIRC, in Canada, some scientists held a mass Homeopathic suicide outside a H.P. hospital, by drinking Cyanide diluted to Homeopathic levels.
None of them died btw, or even got ill. I think their complection got better from all the water though
>> Edited by Raify on Monday 4th April 15:38
Anyway...
As Raify posted, homeopathy IS available on the NHS. Homeopathy has NEVER been proven to be effective in clinical trials (in all of its 200 year history!), but my money is still being thrown at it. In my opinion this is wrong. Yes, some people will quote anecdotal evidence, but this is about as reliable scientifically as ghost stories and UFO sightings.
The NHS is throwing money at medieval sugar pills at the exact same time as Tony Blair is calling for thousands of new doctors and nurses...does no-one apart from me see a problem here?
As Raify posted, homeopathy IS available on the NHS. Homeopathy has NEVER been proven to be effective in clinical trials (in all of its 200 year history!), but my money is still being thrown at it. In my opinion this is wrong. Yes, some people will quote anecdotal evidence, but this is about as reliable scientifically as ghost stories and UFO sightings.
The NHS is throwing money at medieval sugar pills at the exact same time as Tony Blair is calling for thousands of new doctors and nurses...does no-one apart from me see a problem here?
srebbe64 said:
A few months ago I was talking to a client on the phone. Every few seconds he went "ouch", and eventually he said he was having accupunture for his bad back - it made me laugh. Anyway, not long ago I met him and asked how his back was and he said it's never been better since the treatment. I was a sceptic, but that got me thinking!
>> Edited by srebbe64 on Monday 4th April 15:33
Back to topic! I've had first hand experience of Acupuncture, it did work (for me). That is a 3 thousand year old treatment. How can 3 billion chinese people be wrong
Homeopathy is a very recent con. Like someone's just said. Water for old rope.
Raify said:
Back to topic! I've had first hand experience of Acupuncture, it did work (for me). That is a 3 thousand year old treatment. How can 3 billion chinese people be wrong
Three thousand years old and it hasn't changed? Sounds like all the other quackery to me. And until someone realigns me some ch'i in a way that works for EVERYONE in the same way under controlled conditions ALL OF THE TIME, I'll consign acupuncture to the pseudoscience bin as well. None of this "Oh, you're not receptive enough to it" or "your bad vibes are disrupting the effects" rubbish when it doesn't work.
Don't underestimate the body's ability to heal itself.
I'm afraid you have to somtimes listen to the patient.
I don't believe in homeopathy, accupuncture, or for that matter faith healing. I think sometimes the cure can say more about the patient than the treatment.
But conventional medicine doesn't have the answer for all ills. A lot of the time I have to explain to patients that they have to live with their illness, or debility and wait for 'time', or 'nature' to possibly have an effect. While true, this can be quite devastating for a patient.
A lot of patients will attribute their own bodies natural healing nature to the skills of the doctor when it isn't so. We as doctors don't really discourage this as we have known for a long time that the confidence or faith the patient has in us often works in some way to help. Patient relaxes, comes to terms or some such.
I believe the downside of this small untruth is that other disciplines take also take advantage of it.
It doesn't work in my favour to use my influence to rubbish other treatment modalities, it is better to embrace them and then keep them for what they are, hope given to a patient, or better still letting them take part in the healing process rather than telling them to sling their hook and wait for the possibility of repair. I believe a persons atitude to their illness plays a part in their recovery so to encourage that has to help.
I think the fact is that the logical progression of this is that we accept it on the NHS as a legitimate cost. What upsets me is that the NHS in a rush to present itself as an emcompasser of all, actually misses the nuts and bolts of a civilised service. I wouldn't be too happy about this if I was on the waiting list for a hip operation.
I don't believe in homeopathy, accupuncture, or for that matter faith healing. I think sometimes the cure can say more about the patient than the treatment.
But conventional medicine doesn't have the answer for all ills. A lot of the time I have to explain to patients that they have to live with their illness, or debility and wait for 'time', or 'nature' to possibly have an effect. While true, this can be quite devastating for a patient.
A lot of patients will attribute their own bodies natural healing nature to the skills of the doctor when it isn't so. We as doctors don't really discourage this as we have known for a long time that the confidence or faith the patient has in us often works in some way to help. Patient relaxes, comes to terms or some such.
I believe the downside of this small untruth is that other disciplines take also take advantage of it.
It doesn't work in my favour to use my influence to rubbish other treatment modalities, it is better to embrace them and then keep them for what they are, hope given to a patient, or better still letting them take part in the healing process rather than telling them to sling their hook and wait for the possibility of repair. I believe a persons atitude to their illness plays a part in their recovery so to encourage that has to help.
I think the fact is that the logical progression of this is that we accept it on the NHS as a legitimate cost. What upsets me is that the NHS in a rush to present itself as an emcompasser of all, actually misses the nuts and bolts of a civilised service. I wouldn't be too happy about this if I was on the waiting list for a hip operation.
Good post Julian.
My objection to the whole thing is that I don't expect to have to pay for something that doctors know doesn't do anything. They don't give out healing energy crystals on the NHS, and they give some people hope. And who pays for the training of these "specialists"? Why can't doctors themselves prescribe the remedy (which they know to be no more than water or sugar) without recourse to these fakers?
Why can't people have faith in conventional treatments? I do, and I've never had any medical condition that has lasted more than a couple of months in my life. The longest was a bad knee that - surprise surprise - just cleared up on its own when I rested it a little.
My objection to the whole thing is that I don't expect to have to pay for something that doctors know doesn't do anything. They don't give out healing energy crystals on the NHS, and they give some people hope. And who pays for the training of these "specialists"? Why can't doctors themselves prescribe the remedy (which they know to be no more than water or sugar) without recourse to these fakers?
Why can't people have faith in conventional treatments? I do, and I've never had any medical condition that has lasted more than a couple of months in my life. The longest was a bad knee that - surprise surprise - just cleared up on its own when I rested it a little.
To answer your quest Ecks, I would suggest two points for consideration.
Firstly they are not fakers, reports from patients suggest they approach you with an ernest attempt to heal. They spend time listening to you and seem genuinely interested in your well being. Same too faith healers and so on. Its simple stuff like this that often goes missing from an NHS consultation.
Secondly they have advantages over the time. They spend considerably more time with you than you would get in an NHS consultation, and there will be less pressure of time. Its not unheard of for an osteopath to spend upwards of an hour discussing your circumstances before treating.
The NHS suffers from its success. It holds many wonderous cures. A patient comes in with a chest infection, I give antibiotics, he leaves. In other words a pill for many if not all occasions. Mostly they work. Which means you can be more efficient by seeing more patients faster. Average time in a GP consultation is about 7 minutes!
I can cure what needs pills, but for people that need time, its much more difficult, for some people time IS the treatment. It therefore gets easier to see why organisations that give hope, encouragement, time or just an ear while things get better, can take patients away from the NHS.
Trouble is the NHS should be doing this.
Firstly they are not fakers, reports from patients suggest they approach you with an ernest attempt to heal. They spend time listening to you and seem genuinely interested in your well being. Same too faith healers and so on. Its simple stuff like this that often goes missing from an NHS consultation.
Secondly they have advantages over the time. They spend considerably more time with you than you would get in an NHS consultation, and there will be less pressure of time. Its not unheard of for an osteopath to spend upwards of an hour discussing your circumstances before treating.
The NHS suffers from its success. It holds many wonderous cures. A patient comes in with a chest infection, I give antibiotics, he leaves. In other words a pill for many if not all occasions. Mostly they work. Which means you can be more efficient by seeing more patients faster. Average time in a GP consultation is about 7 minutes!
I can cure what needs pills, but for people that need time, its much more difficult, for some people time IS the treatment. It therefore gets easier to see why organisations that give hope, encouragement, time or just an ear while things get better, can take patients away from the NHS.
Trouble is the NHS should be doing this.
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