USA & UK Aid Relief to Asia Tsunami
Discussion
So the USA has pledged $35m (equiv to $0.14 per person in USA) and the UK $29m (equiv $0.50 per person in UK) - ok to start?
So is it just me or are these figures just criminally small - for the USA this is the same value as running their Nimitz carriers for 3 days FFS! (a Joint Striker Jet is $37m and an F-22 Raptor is circa $100 million per plane!)
So why for once can't our sodding governments do the decent thing and donate some real money to people who really need it (rather than corporates or those with influence)?
I know money isn't the answer and it can't all be spent now but for god's sake how do we get these people in power to do the right thing???
At least we can help :-
www.dec.org.uk
0870 60 60 900
God rest all those lost
I think the initial pledges are nothing more than a PR exercise to show that each country is committed to helping. There's absolutely no point in just sending money out to the affected countries. What they will need is food, engineers, medical assistance and all sorts of other resources. What must happen quickly is a proper assessment of what is required in each place so that resources can be dedicated where required.
What really annoys me is that people immediately use something like this as an opportunity to have a go at Britain and the US. We aren't responsible for the disaster and it is a measure of our nations that people assume that we will contribute huge sums and great effort to the relief campaign. Some gratitude would be nice, rather than immediate criticism over arbitrary amounts of money.
I heard Hilary Benn pontificating over putting a penny on income tax yesterday, to raise £5 billion to be donated. I'll contribute what I want to contribute thanks very much.
How much is France dedicating? Germany? Japan? How about all the extraordinarily wealthy countries on the affected nations' doorsteps?
Nope, forget all that, just take the opportunity to slag off the great Satan...
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 30th December 08:03
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 30th December 08:04
What really annoys me is that people immediately use something like this as an opportunity to have a go at Britain and the US. We aren't responsible for the disaster and it is a measure of our nations that people assume that we will contribute huge sums and great effort to the relief campaign. Some gratitude would be nice, rather than immediate criticism over arbitrary amounts of money.
I heard Hilary Benn pontificating over putting a penny on income tax yesterday, to raise £5 billion to be donated. I'll contribute what I want to contribute thanks very much.
How much is France dedicating? Germany? Japan? How about all the extraordinarily wealthy countries on the affected nations' doorsteps?
Nope, forget all that, just take the opportunity to slag off the great Satan...
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 30th December 08:03
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Thursday 30th December 08:04
Instead of bLIAR sunning his useless fat arse in Egypt any self-respecting prime minister would have ordered a chopper carrier to sea immediately to assist. This could be helped by getting all the navy support vessels tanked up and filled with relief goods and away........
The lazy bastard has now lost 4 days doing SFA and not even getting his lazy arse off the ground...
Time we executed this tw@ for treachery, methinks... useless scumbag!!!!
Send NO MONEY as this will only dissappear into unknown channels whether in the HQs of RR driving so-called charities or into the swiss accounts of local warlords and criminals in the affected countries....
My thoughts and sympathy go out to all affected.....
The lazy bastard has now lost 4 days doing SFA and not even getting his lazy arse off the ground...
Time we executed this tw@ for treachery, methinks... useless scumbag!!!!
Send NO MONEY as this will only dissappear into unknown channels whether in the HQs of RR driving so-called charities or into the swiss accounts of local warlords and criminals in the affected countries....
My thoughts and sympathy go out to all affected.....
Mon Ami Mate said:Agree entirely
I think the initial pledges are nothing more than a PR exercise to show that each country is committed to helping. There's absolutely no point in just sending money out to the affected countries. What they will need is food, engineers, medical assistance and all sorts of other resources. What must happen quickly is a proper assessment of what is required in each place so that resources can be dedicated where required.
Mon Ami Mate said:Gratitude??? Good god man - there are thousands of people dead over there!
What really annoys me is that people immediately use something like this as an opportunity to have a go at Britain and the US. We aren't responsible for the disaster and it is a measure of our nations that people assume that we will contribute huge sums and great effort to the relief campaign. Some gratitude would be nice, rather than immediate criticism over arbitrary amounts of money.
Mon Ami Mate said:Perhaps if we spent less on military then I'd be happier?
I heard Hilary Benn pontificating over putting a penny on income tax yesterday, to raise £5 billion to be donated. I'll contribute what I want to contribute thanks very much.
How much is France dedicating? Germany? Japan? How about all the extraordinarily wealthy countries on the affected nations' doorsteps?
Nope, forget all that, just take the opportunity to slag off the great Satan...
My issue is not that we are donating, but that in the value our two countries are donating in comparison to our arms spend.
2000 died in Sept 11th, 80,000 so far on Dec 26th - wonder how much the UK and USA will offer to help when compared to the cost of 'the war on terror'?
Sorry just very frustrated that I can't do more to help
tvrforever said:
Gratitude??? Good god man - there are thousands of people dead over there!
Yes, and it's awful. But we have already pledged an initial £15 million and this will pale into insignificance compared to what is to come. I made a donation yesterday of my own free will and I'm sure that private donations will more than match Government spend (which is, after all, money we have donated already).
tvrforever said:
Perhaps if we spent less on military then I'd be happier?
You must be joking. This Government has already decimated the military and continues to do so. Our soldiers are low in numbers, poorly equipped and increasingly disheartened. Our Air Force and Navy are pathetic. Many of the impoverished nations around the world that we send aid to will have greater military spends than ours. And they'll often use it to suppress people who then turn up on our doorsteps claiming asylum...
I thought everyone was tired of the US and UK meddling in other countries affairs?
Please, 35 mil goes a very, very long way in those affected countries, and it is only the initial pledge.
Not only that, but that's just government money...it doesn't include all the money that ordinary folks are donating. Hmmm, ordinary folks halfway around the world donating money and food, and aid to people in a place they've never seen. I guess we really are evil uppity bastards afterall.
I tell you what, if the affected nations feel slighted or insulted by our paltry donation, they are free to send it back.
Mike
Please, 35 mil goes a very, very long way in those affected countries, and it is only the initial pledge.
Not only that, but that's just government money...it doesn't include all the money that ordinary folks are donating. Hmmm, ordinary folks halfway around the world donating money and food, and aid to people in a place they've never seen. I guess we really are evil uppity bastards afterall.
I tell you what, if the affected nations feel slighted or insulted by our paltry donation, they are free to send it back.
Mike
Sorry if this looks crasley negative - it's not meant to be, more of frustration of modern materialistic value judgements
I'm sorry but nowadays even $35m doesn't go that far to rebuild cities let alone entire countries. I know it's a lot of cash but in relative terms it's nothing to either of our countries - that's my frustration. (That is only heightened by our leader's use of terms like "defenders of the free world" - especially when one of them didn't have a passport until 5 years ago)
Didn't the West Wing have an episode where the president was asked "so why is an African life worth less than a Western one?" in the context of 'defence of the free world'?
And I AM NOT saying any of the countries are slighted or insulted in any way - I believe they are incredibly grateful & thankful. More that I hope our governments do the right thing and give more aid and money now rather than continuing to be outdone by their public.
I agree that the ordinary folks are doing an amazing role (we made our donation yesterday) - that's one of the amazingly good things to come out of this. Is restoring basic faith that many other people want to help.
I'm sorry but nowadays even $35m doesn't go that far to rebuild cities let alone entire countries. I know it's a lot of cash but in relative terms it's nothing to either of our countries - that's my frustration. (That is only heightened by our leader's use of terms like "defenders of the free world" - especially when one of them didn't have a passport until 5 years ago)
Didn't the West Wing have an episode where the president was asked "so why is an African life worth less than a Western one?" in the context of 'defence of the free world'?
And I AM NOT saying any of the countries are slighted or insulted in any way - I believe they are incredibly grateful & thankful. More that I hope our governments do the right thing and give more aid and money now rather than continuing to be outdone by their public.
I agree that the ordinary folks are doing an amazing role (we made our donation yesterday) - that's one of the amazingly good things to come out of this. Is restoring basic faith that many other people want to help.
tvrforever said:
And I AM NOT saying any of the countries are slighted or insulted in any way - I believe they are incredibly grateful & thankful. More that I hope our governments do the right thing and give more aid and money now rather than continuing to be outdone by their public.
I agree that the ordinary folks are doing an amazing role (we made our donation yesterday) - that's one of the amazingly good things to come out of this. Is restoring basic faith that many other people want to help.
But...the Government doesn't have a mysterious mountain of cash of its own. It is our money. Money we have already donated through our taxes. People who choose to make private donations are paying twice. Hilary Benn's idea of putting an extra penny on tax means we get to pay three times over.
And then Brown will tell us we need to pay even more tax in the next budget for our own pensioners, hospitals, schools, transport and social security, as well, no doubt, as an increase in foreign aid.
Last year, the US donated 2.4 billion in aid around the world...a full 40% of ALL aid contributed by all countries. Noone even comes close to approaching that.
American citizens and companies, on the other hand, donate $5 billion just to international charity causes. More than any other country, again.
Again, the 35 by the government, is just an itial gift. I suspect, largely for emergency relief and cleanup. Follow-on contributions generally go to rebuilding efforts.
I don't the US, the UK, or their citizens have ever failed to step up to the bar when it comes to doling out charity.
Edited to add: The dollar amount that the government gives is just that...money. It does not include the use of transport planes to deliver food and medicine, the use of navy ships to urify water, or the use of military men and women to aid in cleanup, etc. That's all in addition to the dollars.
>> Edited by madmike on Thursday 30th December 15:24
American citizens and companies, on the other hand, donate $5 billion just to international charity causes. More than any other country, again.
Again, the 35 by the government, is just an itial gift. I suspect, largely for emergency relief and cleanup. Follow-on contributions generally go to rebuilding efforts.
I don't the US, the UK, or their citizens have ever failed to step up to the bar when it comes to doling out charity.
Edited to add: The dollar amount that the government gives is just that...money. It does not include the use of transport planes to deliver food and medicine, the use of navy ships to urify water, or the use of military men and women to aid in cleanup, etc. That's all in addition to the dollars.
>> Edited by madmike on Thursday 30th December 15:24
Britain only has three carriers - of which two tend to be in use at any one time. Both are pretty tied up at the moment Although I'd guess maybe one might be diverted.
Don't forget that India is the 4th most largest military power in the world with the third largest Air Force and (possibly) second biggest navy.
Don't forget that India is the 4th most largest military power in the world with the third largest Air Force and (possibly) second biggest navy.
Mon Ami Mate said:
But...the Government doesn't have a mysterious mountain of cash of its own. It is our money. Money we have already donated through our taxes. People who choose to make private donations are paying twice. Hilary Benn's idea of putting an extra penny on tax means we get to pay three times over.
And then Brown will tell us we need to pay even more tax in the next budget for our own pensioners, hospitals, schools, transport and social security, as well, no doubt, as an increase in foreign aid.
I agree
I'm sorry if this sounds calous but I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there and neither am I willing to pay more taxes to facilitate brownie point gaining exercises. Put right the glaring problems in our own welfare state before looking to gain votes. Do you think Tony won't play this come election time.
Like I said sorry if this offends but it is my opinion.
GCerbera said:
I'm sorry if this sounds calous but I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there...
Like I said sorry if this offends but it is my opinion.
Entitled to your opinion, but would you care if one of your family members had been involved?
But they havn't so there's no plastic emotional comparison to make.
Would they be first in line if the shoe was on the other foot? Some of the volunteer aid workers are selling the aid packages to the highest bidders. Sorry but i'm sending my money to UK charities only.
wolf1 said:Having visited Asia a few times including just a few weeks ago, the people are just
wolf1 said:
I'm sorry if this sounds calous but I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there...
Like I said sorry if this offends but it is my opinion.
Entitled to your opinion, but would you care if one of your family members had been involved?
But they havn't so there's no plastic emotional comparison to make.
Would they be first in line if the shoe was on the other foot? Some of the volunteer aid workers are selling the aid packages to the highest bidders. Sorry but i'm sending my money to UK charities only.
like the rest of us, mostly good, but as with everywhere else, a few bad.
The majority go out of their way to help you, show respect and kindness and
offers of help and assistance are plentiful when we have even a minor crisis.
They don't have our riches, but they have an abundance of compassion for fellow
human beings.
Charity does begin at home, but if it ends there, it helps to explain why the world
is in the mess it is.
wolf1 said:
But...the Government doesn't have a mysterious mountain of cash of its own. It is our money. Money we have already donated through our taxes. People who choose to make private donations are paying twice. Hilary Benn's idea of putting an extra penny on tax means we get to pay three times over.
And then Brown will tell us we need to pay even more tax in the next budget for our own pensioners, hospitals, schools, transport and social security, as well, no doubt, as an increase in foreign aid.
I agree
I'm sorry if this sounds calous but I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there and neither am I willing to pay more taxes to facilitate brownie point gaining exercises. Put right the glaring problems in our own welfare state before looking to gain votes. Do you think Tony won't play this come election time.
Like I said sorry if this offends but it is my opinion.
It does sound a bit callous. Having spent several years of my life in various parts of Asia (and several others in various parts of Africa) I have to say I care a lot. But I want to be able to choose how much of my money I donate and have as much control as possible over how it is spent. I don't want nanny state barging to the front of the queue once again to hoover up our cash and waste it in its own mysterious ways. And I certainly resent any suggestion that as a nation we are not doing enough.
wolf1 said:
But...the Government doesn't have a mysterious mountain of cash of its own. It is our money. Money we have already donated through our taxes. People who choose to make private donations are paying twice. Hilary Benn's idea of putting an extra penny on tax means we get to pay three times over.
And then Brown will tell us we need to pay even more tax in the next budget for our own pensioners, hospitals, schools, transport and social security, as well, no doubt, as an increase in foreign aid.
I agree
I'm sorry if this sounds calous but I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there and neither am I willing to pay more taxes to facilitate brownie point gaining exercises. Put right the glaring problems in our own welfare state before looking to gain votes. Do you think Tony won't play this come election time.
Like I said sorry if this offends but it is my opinion.
Sick individual. In case you have had your head up your arse for the last few days, there are hundreds possibly thousands of British people that have died, most people (including me) know someone who's either missing, alive or dead. If it happened here and you lost your family and that van ply company you brag about in your profile, like the thousands in Asia, you would be begging for help. Thank God everyone in the World doesn't have a selfish attitude like you. I'm ashamed to share a forum with you.
wolf1 said:
.. I neither care about the unfortunate souls over there..
Edited: To remove anything that could be deemed as a personal attack, this thread needs to run and I will not contribute to its demise no matter how incensed I am by some contributions.
>> Edited by chim_girl on Thursday 30th December 18:17
tvrforever said:
At least we can help :-
www.dec.org.uk
0870 60 60 900
God rest all those lost
Just tried to call this line to donate and it's closed. This doesn't seem right to me - anyone have any insight?
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