ID card paradox
Discussion
hornet said:
If/when I'm eventually forced to have an ID card, when I go to get my details taken and biometrics scanned, will they ask me for ID to prove who I am?
If you're worried about that then wait until you consider how the man that drives the Snow Plough gets to his work in the morning....
But I completely understand the point you're making - and agree.
in truth it will be an entiltlement card...if you ain't paid into the system then you get nothing back out. which to me is a very tory type policy. but how does that stand against the ethos of "free" health treatment at source, you turn up ill at hospital, you present your little card, they scan it, then say to you "sorry sir, you are a heavy smoker, so not entitled to this heart treatment and you have not paid enough NI to cover the treatment anyway."
where does it end?
where does it end?
The Wiz said:
Initially yes .... but what you'll find is you will need one too obtain more and more state services over the years so if you don't have one benefits, healthcare etc will be impossible to get.
Hence another paradoxical situation...what if you are unemployed and do not have £85 to get the benefits so that you can get an ID card so that you can get the benefits...
*Stack overflow*
*Recursion fault*
That reminds me of a tale told by Mark Thomas - he was arrested for chaining himself to a bus at an arms fair, and one of his mates in the back of the police van said "Officer, technically, if I call the police and say there's a bomb at the arms fair, is it a hoax call?"
Apparently one BiB said Yes, and another said No.
Apparently one BiB said Yes, and another said No.
ian d said:
in truth it will be an entiltlement card...if you ain't paid into the system then you get nothing back out. which to me is a very tory type policy. but how does that stand against the ethos of "free" health treatment at source, you turn up ill at hospital, you present your little card, they scan it, then say to you "sorry sir, you are a heavy smoker, so not entitled to this heart treatment and you have not paid enough NI to cover the treatment anyway."
where does it end?
Thats the big fear. Almost every public service in this country doesnt specifically require identification. Health, emergency services, bins cleaned, access to public buildings etc etc. But we have already this erroded over the last 10 - 15 years anyway. So, where will it stop? Thats a good question....
However, if you have the option of having one then fine. You dont have to have one if you dont want and hence not a problem. Personally I would have one, but then again I am security cleared by the UK Government so my name will be on the list of people to watch anyway - so actually makes zero difference to me!
There is a lot of mis-information that is put around in the media and on the web. I guess some of this is a natural distrust for any government, and some for the technology itself. You dont actually know what is being read, written or updated on your smart card. So what is actually stored? Unless you have the ability to see / read / know this then I can quite see the cynicism involved....
Oh, and finally (sorry for the long post) the process of getting a card will be handled by the passport agency. This means that you will apply for one on a paper form. This will be processed against any existing id data that is held. For example, electoral register, passport database, driving license etc.... the combination of the relatively weak ids together make it stronger. So, a combination of data corroborated together adds strength. Actual issuance is supposed to take place at a passport office with final double check of photo / physical identification. Then biometric data read and card created. So its not that bad.
Oh, sorry yet another final one - to access the private data on the card you will need to enter your PIN. General information will be readable such as name and national id reference number. But access to any other private data will be protected by the PIN. So if you dont want anyone to get access to this, dont give anyone (or enter) your PIN. So its pretty safe and not really an issue. Since the laws dont exist to force you to enter any information like this, you are perfectly in your right to not.....And importantly this can be checked.....
Heard some tory gimp on the news yesterday saying "since 9/11 (
) i recognise the need for us to have these cards and therefore am in agreement with the government for thier continuing with this bill..."
Personally, i think its all bollox. We had more direct acts of terrorism to us as a country throughout the whole of the 80s/90s than since 2001 and yet the place is supposedly less safe now!?
Its all about creating a nervous society to toe thir party line!
) i recognise the need for us to have these cards and therefore am in agreement with the government for thier continuing with this bill..." Personally, i think its all bollox. We had more direct acts of terrorism to us as a country throughout the whole of the 80s/90s than since 2001 and yet the place is supposedly less safe now!?
Its all about creating a nervous society to toe thir party line!
The problem I have is that they're not being honest about the reasons for an ID card - the terrorism thing is a total red herring.
From what I saw on the news a few nights back, someone (new home sec?) said:
"1/3 of terrorism offences are committed with false ID"
My issue (put simply) is:
Only UK citizens will have the ID card in the first place! If they're not known terrorists, then having a 'clean' ID card is going to make bugger all difference. If they're not from the UK (in the same way that the 911 bods weren't US citizens), the ID card will make no difference.
If they sold it as an entitlement card, I wouldn't have a problem with it, BUT they wouldn't need all the extra info they want to tack onto the card, and I wouldn't have to carry it with me at all times.
Everyone I've spoken to who has to carry an ID card in their own country tells me that they feel a bit 'freer' when in the UK, as they don't have to carry ID with them.
Dan
From what I saw on the news a few nights back, someone (new home sec?) said:
"1/3 of terrorism offences are committed with false ID"
My issue (put simply) is:
Only UK citizens will have the ID card in the first place! If they're not known terrorists, then having a 'clean' ID card is going to make bugger all difference. If they're not from the UK (in the same way that the 911 bods weren't US citizens), the ID card will make no difference.
If they sold it as an entitlement card, I wouldn't have a problem with it, BUT they wouldn't need all the extra info they want to tack onto the card, and I wouldn't have to carry it with me at all times.
Everyone I've spoken to who has to carry an ID card in their own country tells me that they feel a bit 'freer' when in the UK, as they don't have to carry ID with them.
Dan
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