House Electrics, The Sink & RCBs
Discussion
This is a strange one.
Mrs Ex keeps complaing she is getting eletric shocks from the sink. Big ones.
Needless to say it never happens to me and I do my fair share of washing up.
Now, the last shock she just got actually tripped the RCB and took out the house socket circuit.
So, if the sink is earthed is it possible for static electricity to trip the RCB?
Could water running through the tap build up a sufficient charge or should I tell her to stop wearing that cheap nylon underwear
The only apliance nearby is a brand new dish washer (which we've never used) - can't locate a sock for it to unplug it and see if that is the problem.
At a bit of a loss as to what the cause might be so anyone out there got any ideas?
best
Ex
Mrs Ex keeps complaing she is getting eletric shocks from the sink. Big ones.
Needless to say it never happens to me and I do my fair share of washing up.
Now, the last shock she just got actually tripped the RCB and took out the house socket circuit.
So, if the sink is earthed is it possible for static electricity to trip the RCB?
Could water running through the tap build up a sufficient charge or should I tell her to stop wearing that cheap nylon underwear
The only apliance nearby is a brand new dish washer (which we've never used) - can't locate a sock for it to unplug it and see if that is the problem.
At a bit of a loss as to what the cause might be so anyone out there got any ideas?
best
Ex
If the sink is metal then it should be electrically earth bonded, as should the taps. This is in the form of 6mm or 10mm green/yellow cable connected to earth and looped across all pipes and radiators in the house (anything big and metal, basically).
If your water mains come in at the same place as your electrics you can loop across from the earth terminal to an earth strap on the copper pipe.
www.technosolution.co.uk/diy/electrics/safety/safety1.htm
If your water mains come in at the same place as your electrics you can loop across from the earth terminal to an earth strap on the copper pipe.
www.technosolution.co.uk/diy/electrics/safety/safety1.htm
rsvmilly said:
If the sink is metal then it should be electrically earth bonded, as should the taps. This is in the form of 6mm or 10mm green/yellow cable connected to earth and looped across all pipes and radiators in the house (anything big and metal, basically).
If your water mains come in at the same place as your electrics you can loop across from the earth terminal to an earth strap on the copper pipe.
<a href="http://www.technosolution.co.uk/diy/electrics/safety/safety1.htm">www.technosolution.co.uk/diy/electrics/safety/safety1.htm</a>
Thanks, I need to get in and have a proper look as I think all the water pipes are plastic. I'm thinking that possibly the sink might be earthed but perhapse the taps aren't.
There is a bit of green/yellow wire kicking around in the back of the sink cupboard but hardly the 6mm stuff one would expect! (Welcome to Ireland!)
Also the back of the cupboarded is boared up so that'll need to come out to see what's really going on.
I shall go forth with my multimeter later and check the earth loops!
best
Ex
>> Edited by TheExcession on Thursday 16th December 16:37
The pants wasn't as flippant as you might first think. Depending on the materials you both wear, and how you walk etc, she could be more succeptible to building up a charge than you.
If she doesn't pick her feet up on a carpet with nylon in it, she might build up quite a large amount of static just waiting to discharge!
If she doesn't pick her feet up on a carpet with nylon in it, she might build up quite a large amount of static just waiting to discharge!
[quote=TheExcession
So, if the sink is earthed is it possible for static electricity to trip the RCB?
[/quote]
Not someone else having problems with RCB's? To answer the question, yes. But only if the earthing isnt correct.
All water and gas systems should be earthed correctly (not sure of the legal requirement) and depending on the area, this can be quite a lot of build of static. Once earthed it will discharge and place enough of a drain / spike to trigger an RCD to go - though earthing is probably the bigger issue.
All IMHO from a non-qualified amateur electrician.
Wired a plug up earlier and the house hasnt burned down, yet so must have some sense....
So, if the sink is earthed is it possible for static electricity to trip the RCB?
[/quote]
Not someone else having problems with RCB's? To answer the question, yes. But only if the earthing isnt correct.
All water and gas systems should be earthed correctly (not sure of the legal requirement) and depending on the area, this can be quite a lot of build of static. Once earthed it will discharge and place enough of a drain / spike to trigger an RCD to go - though earthing is probably the bigger issue.
All IMHO from a non-qualified amateur electrician.
Wired a plug up earlier and the house hasnt burned down, yet so must have some sense....
If it's wired correctly it shouldn't be able to trip an RCD. In basic terms an RCD works by comparing the electricity that flows through it in one direction to what comes back - ie from the positive to the negative terminal.
The smallest fuse you'll find in your house will probably be 3A which is ample to kill you many times over. I think 50mA is sufficient.
Since the RCD is sensitive to imbalances rather that excess current it will protect the person rather than the circuit. Most trip at about 30mA.
The smallest fuse you'll find in your house will probably be 3A which is ample to kill you many times over. I think 50mA is sufficient.
Since the RCD is sensitive to imbalances rather that excess current it will protect the person rather than the circuit. Most trip at about 30mA.
highly unlikely to be static,rcd trips because the flow through hasnt returned or leaked,get the water,gas incomer bonded to the main earth at consumer unit with 10mm earth then crossbond the sink to the water pipes so its all at the same earth potential, quickly while you still have a missus
BliarOut said:
The pants wasn't as flippant as you might first think. Depending on the materials you both wear, and how you walk etc, she could be more succeptible to building up a charge than you.
If she doesn't pick her feet up on a carpet with nylon in it, she might build up quite a large amount of static just waiting to discharge!
Indeedy - hence the reason I mentioned it. I shall also (once I let her out of her six inch heel, thighlength rubber boots) carefully note her walking technique around the house and see if shuffling feet might be an issue.
best
Ex
rsvmilly said:
If it's wired correctly it shouldn't be able to trip an RCD. In basic terms an RCD works by comparing the electricity that flows through it in one direction to what comes back - ie from the positive to the negative terminal.
The smallest fuse you'll find in your house will probably be 3A which is ample to kill you many times over. I think 50mA is sufficient.
Since the RCD is sensitive to imbalances rather that excess current it will protect the person rather than the circuit. Most trip at about 30mA.
turbospud said:
highly unlikely to be static,rcd trips because the flow through hasnt returned or leaked,get the water,gas incomer bonded to the main earth at consumer unit with 10mm earth then crossbond the sink to the water pipes so its all at the same earth potential, quickly while you still have a missus
Indeedy, this was my interpretation as to how ELCB/RCB worked.
But how else to explain wher ethe electricity is coming from. Guess I'll be ripped the back of the cupboard out later tonight.
thanks for all the info
best
Ex
rsvmilly said:
If the sink is metal then it should be electrically earth bonded, as should the taps. This is in the form of 6mm or 10mm green/yellow cable connected to earth and looped across all pipes and radiators in the house (anything big and metal, basically).
If your water mains come in at the same place as your electrics you can loop across from the earth terminal to an earth strap on the copper pipe.
www.technosolution.co.uk/diy/electrics/safety/safety1.htm
That site gives some fundamentally innacurate advice.
"There are strict rules on earthing of metal items in a house.
All must be bonded to the earth connection terminal
at the consumer unit. They include radiators, pipes, sinks, basins, baths, towel rails etc.
These may be linked together and connected to the Earth terminal or separate earth cables may be used for each. The minimum size for this cable is 6mm sq. Earth cables have a green and yellow sleeve."
In fact only incoming metal services require equipotential bonding (back to the earth terminal) the others can be supplementary bonded. Supplementary bonding can be as small as 2.5mm copper if mechanically protected or 4mm copper if not mechanically protected; although most sparkys use 6mm anyway.
"Electrical socket outlets in a kitchen should be sited so that it is not possible to touch them when using the sink."
Incorrect, see www.niceic.org.uk/approved/quest2.html
To the original poster, as the RCBO tripped I would advise you to get an experienced electrician in to have a look. Static should not cause one to trip.
There's a Mrs. Excession? You kept that quiet... ianp68 said:
Corrections
Thanks for the corrections. I just googled for an earth clamp. I didn't investigate the site any further than that.
Re sizing of bonding, I have always understood that the size of the conductor should be no smaller than the largest conductor in your house. So if you have an 8.5kW shower with 10mm cable then that is the size of your bonding.
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