Bloody Europe!
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4091837.stm
Honestly, does anybody really think this grand design, even beyond these fundamental economic mechanics, has any steam left in it?
Out, out, vile Brusselian jelly!
Honestly, does anybody really think this grand design, even beyond these fundamental economic mechanics, has any steam left in it?
Out, out, vile Brusselian jelly!
Sadly it has plenty of steam left it, I fear.
When I read the words:
Continental economics gone mad.....
When I read the words:
odious Eurocrat said:That is basically a euphemism for "We'll bend the bloody rules to suit ourselves as and when we feel like it"
"We need a flexible interpretation of the Pact," says Hans Marten, chief executive of the Brussels-based think tank, the European Policy Centre.
"There is always this balance between the wish for economic growth and for economic stimulus, and on other hand the need to avoid a slide into escalating deficits.
Continental economics gone mad.....
Perversely it was actually the Germans that insisted that the stability pact include the 3% deficit rule, because they were worried about other countries with less "serious" financial management would drag the Euro down.
The egg on their face when they overstepped their own mark was really quite comical, though I found the French and German lobbying to disregard the pact quite disgraceful, given that they'd been ramming it down other countries' throats up until then.
The only saving grace for the Euro is the weakness of the $, as it may make the Euro the reserve currency of choice for a while. Otherwise I think the currency traders would have given the Euro a severe whack...
The egg on their face when they overstepped their own mark was really quite comical, though I found the French and German lobbying to disregard the pact quite disgraceful, given that they'd been ramming it down other countries' throats up until then.
The only saving grace for the Euro is the weakness of the $, as it may make the Euro the reserve currency of choice for a while. Otherwise I think the currency traders would have given the Euro a severe whack...
The problem with the stability pact is not that it is being broken but that it exists at all.
The countries in the Euro area no longer have any control over their interest rates or the exchange rate. The only method they have to stabilise their economies is fiscal policy-and this is then limited by a rule restricting deficits to 3%-truly mad economics.
On a related note I believe that the Euro area is too large and diverse to share the same currency. The USA manages it but only with far larger fiscal transfers between states and far more movement of labour.
>> Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 15th December 16:59
The countries in the Euro area no longer have any control over their interest rates or the exchange rate. The only method they have to stabilise their economies is fiscal policy-and this is then limited by a rule restricting deficits to 3%-truly mad economics.
On a related note I believe that the Euro area is too large and diverse to share the same currency. The USA manages it but only with far larger fiscal transfers between states and far more movement of labour.
>> Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 15th December 16:59
JagLover said:
The USA manages it but only with far larger fiscal transfers between states and far more movement of labour.
Yep - this has always been one of my bugbears with the eurozone - I don't foresee Pierre moving from Lyon to Milan because there's more work there.
Similarly, as long as all the countries concerned operate different fiscal systems, the euro is on dodgy ground as far I can see. And if the combination of the fiscal systems means adopting the most onerous, because face it, no government is going to want to reduce their receipts, then we're heading for a high tax federality based on extremely socialist principles.
Yes indeed
There are already complaints about 'unfair' tax competition. The one ray of hope seems to be the Eastern European countries joining the EU. They have spent the last decade dismantling the old communist command economy and I doubt they will be that keen about rebuilding it again.
In fact low tax rates and an open economy are their only chance to catch up with western Europe-to attract Foreign investment.
There are already complaints about 'unfair' tax competition. The one ray of hope seems to be the Eastern European countries joining the EU. They have spent the last decade dismantling the old communist command economy and I doubt they will be that keen about rebuilding it again.
In fact low tax rates and an open economy are their only chance to catch up with western Europe-to attract Foreign investment.
nel said:
Perversely it was actually the Germans that insisted that the stability pact include the 3% deficit rule, because they were worried about other countries with less "serious" financial management would drag the Euro down.
The egg on their face when they overstepped their own mark was really quite comical, though I found the French and German lobbying to disregard the pact quite disgraceful, given that they'd been ramming it down other countries' throats up until then.
The thing that makes me furious is when the EU tells off eitehr Germany or France for their deliberate disregard of the rules they scream blue murder, refuse to accept the "blue letter" ticking them off and the fine....but when a "minor" country like Portugal steps a millimetre over the line, they're baying for blood...cynical self-serving greedy swine....one of the reasons the premature (purely politically motivated) Euro is BAAADDD!
mybrainhurts said:
Don't forget, peeps, our membership fee is.....
£1,826,484..............PER HOUR
That's...
£43,835,616.............PER DAY
give or take a few bob.
Are we mad...or are we bloody insane......?
It's ok mate, people like me have already got our piece of cake, we are just going to give yours away in the name of our names in history. As long as people have this attitude in government, the EU Federal Totalitarian Socialist Union will be on the agenda.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are very fortunate to be PHing at this time. There is in waiting an EU offence - to be enforced in due course by the EU Stasi - called seditious libel. This juicy morsel for the thought police to get their teeth into will make it an offence to say anything that harms the interests of the EU. And who do you think will decide whether an utterance or written word is covered by the offence?
Type away in blissful freedom while you may do so with impunity. The future's bleak, the future's a Stasi enforced kontrolfreak regime to be known as the Federal Union of Communist Kontrolled European Dictatorships, in other words, soon we'll all be F.U.C.K.E.D.
Type away in blissful freedom while you may do so with impunity. The future's bleak, the future's a Stasi enforced kontrolfreak regime to be known as the Federal Union of Communist Kontrolled European Dictatorships, in other words, soon we'll all be F.U.C.K.E.D.
Chaps, well known as I am for the being the devils advocate and general contrarian, I feel compelled to comment.
Fact is, we Brits simply don't GET Europe.
We misunderstand Europe in the same way we would misunderstand a tribal leader from a far-away Inuit tribe who unbeknown to us is using really long words.
In short, we don't understand "Europe" the way a large number of Europeans do.
I don't mean that therefore we should join the EU - not at all. In fact, I don't think the UK should join the EU to any greater extent than it has.
But I don't think we should underestimate why THEY want the EU to work. And if its all right for them, then I wish them luck and hope it works out, even if I don't think its for the UK..
I currently work in a Bank surrounded with Spanish, Italians, Germans, Swiss, a couple of Austrians, a Dutch, two French, a Japanese, a bloke from Dublin, 3 Aussies , a Kiwi and someone from San Morino ( ! ) . All are educated professionals working in finance and , fascinatingly. all are pro-EU....
Why is this? As most of them are much smarter than me, and as a rule are economics grads ( with a few masters thrown in) then you might think they are sceptical of the EU experiment in terms of simple economics....
And you know what ? They ARE sceptical ! They are not sure that the economic "idea" of Europe is possible without a LOT of pain.
They also have a good degree of cynicism about the leaders of the EU. Which, again, is something we would all agree with.
But in spite of the fact that we share the same doubts about the mad idea actually working, what I find fascinating is that all of them are WILLING TO GIVE THE EU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because at the core of it all, they believe in the idea.
They believe in the idea because they are different in mindset and experience, culture, than us. They are sympathetic to left of centre social capitalism.
Above all they see the EU as a permanent and momentous measure to ensure peace across the European continent . They believe this, they really do, and see it as a grand plan with a greater degree of optimism ( and maybe naivete) than we do..
And i think thats cool.
So I personally see no reason to knock the EU.
I can understand why WE may not want to join it. But I can also respect the motives behind it and the vision they have.
It may not be for us, but it might be good for them. So I wish them luck....
Fact is, we Brits simply don't GET Europe.
We misunderstand Europe in the same way we would misunderstand a tribal leader from a far-away Inuit tribe who unbeknown to us is using really long words.
In short, we don't understand "Europe" the way a large number of Europeans do.
I don't mean that therefore we should join the EU - not at all. In fact, I don't think the UK should join the EU to any greater extent than it has.
But I don't think we should underestimate why THEY want the EU to work. And if its all right for them, then I wish them luck and hope it works out, even if I don't think its for the UK..
I currently work in a Bank surrounded with Spanish, Italians, Germans, Swiss, a couple of Austrians, a Dutch, two French, a Japanese, a bloke from Dublin, 3 Aussies , a Kiwi and someone from San Morino ( ! ) . All are educated professionals working in finance and , fascinatingly. all are pro-EU....
Why is this? As most of them are much smarter than me, and as a rule are economics grads ( with a few masters thrown in) then you might think they are sceptical of the EU experiment in terms of simple economics....
And you know what ? They ARE sceptical ! They are not sure that the economic "idea" of Europe is possible without a LOT of pain.
They also have a good degree of cynicism about the leaders of the EU. Which, again, is something we would all agree with.
But in spite of the fact that we share the same doubts about the mad idea actually working, what I find fascinating is that all of them are WILLING TO GIVE THE EU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT because at the core of it all, they believe in the idea.
They believe in the idea because they are different in mindset and experience, culture, than us. They are sympathetic to left of centre social capitalism.
Above all they see the EU as a permanent and momentous measure to ensure peace across the European continent . They believe this, they really do, and see it as a grand plan with a greater degree of optimism ( and maybe naivete) than we do..
And i think thats cool.
So I personally see no reason to knock the EU.
I can understand why WE may not want to join it. But I can also respect the motives behind it and the vision they have.
It may not be for us, but it might be good for them. So I wish them luck....
toppstuff said:
I currently work in a Bank surrounded with Spanish, Italians, Germans, Swiss, a couple of Austrians, a Dutch, two French, a Japanese, a bloke from Dublin, 3 Aussies , a Kiwi and someone from San Morino ( ! ) . All are educated professionals working in finance and , fascinatingly. all are pro-EU.... economics grads ( with a few masters thrown in)..........They believe in the idea because they are different in mindset and experience, culture, than us.
They are sympathetic to left of centre social capitalism.
Above all they see the EU as a permanent and momentous measure to ensure peace across the European continent . They believe this, they really do, and see it as a grand plan with a greater degree of optimism ( and maybe naivete) than we do..
And i think thats cool.
No it's not. They're a bunch of Commie
's..........mybrainhurts said:
I currently work in a Bank surrounded with Spanish, Italians, Germans, Swiss, a couple of Austrians, a Dutch, two French, a Japanese, a bloke from Dublin, 3 Aussies , a Kiwi and someone from San Morino ( ! ) . All are educated professionals working in finance and , fascinatingly. all are pro-EU.... economics grads ( with a few masters thrown in)..........They believe in the idea because they are different in mindset and experience, culture, than us.
They are sympathetic to left of centre social capitalism.
Above all they see the EU as a permanent and momentous measure to ensure peace across the European continent . They believe this, they really do, and see it as a grand plan with a greater degree of optimism ( and maybe naivete) than we do..
And i think thats cool.
No it's not. They're a bunch of Commie
Hardly. We are'nt talking communist comrades here, but city traders. Just about the complete opposite of communism...
Communism - Look it up.
turbobloke said:
Communism - Look it up.
We're talking neo pinko green communism, a virulent stealth strain developed by, and characteristic of, the EU.
The former definition is indeed not applicable and is well past its sell by date.
Nope - These people are capitalists through and through. Don't see a pinko -greenie anywhere in an investment bank - they are'nt allowed because they interfere with the pursuit of profit...
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