What Ron Said...
Discussion
Big Ron, champion of mid 70's black footballists in the contemporary top flight English game, golfing partner of the boy Carlton P and sometime outspoken pillock.
Does he deserve his newfound status as media pariah or is such publically unchallenged condemnation, at the hands of the New Racial Stasi, an indication of hypocricy within society at large these days?
How can it be so irretrievably heinous for an older man, to 'do a Manning,' in genuine jest (however offensive to hypersensitive political correctees), when all around, the cult of black ubiquity assails the populace with it's own, dubious slant on urban descriptions and lifestyle with as was pointed out in the documentary, some unbelievable inconsistencies internally, most obviously via much employment by (presumably young) black America of the 'n' word as a latter day corruption of the trad 'bro' or 'brother?'
Of course, the word has terrible, historic associations and what was said was plain dumb but if actions speak louder than words and a man has expressed sincere regret...
Are we all such slaves to the random indignity of the self appointed Witchfinder General, Darcus 'Torquemada' Howe?
Does he deserve his newfound status as media pariah or is such publically unchallenged condemnation, at the hands of the New Racial Stasi, an indication of hypocricy within society at large these days?
How can it be so irretrievably heinous for an older man, to 'do a Manning,' in genuine jest (however offensive to hypersensitive political correctees), when all around, the cult of black ubiquity assails the populace with it's own, dubious slant on urban descriptions and lifestyle with as was pointed out in the documentary, some unbelievable inconsistencies internally, most obviously via much employment by (presumably young) black America of the 'n' word as a latter day corruption of the trad 'bro' or 'brother?'
Of course, the word has terrible, historic associations and what was said was plain dumb but if actions speak louder than words and a man has expressed sincere regret...
Are we all such slaves to the random indignity of the self appointed Witchfinder General, Darcus 'Torquemada' Howe?
What he said was wrong, but hey everyone makes mistakes. I am in no way supporting, condoning or offering any form of support to what he said. But I think that the public stigma that he will now have is enough.
People do worse on a daily basis. Maybe a public appology (if he hasnt already) and lets move on. Villification at the hands of an unelected self-appointed spokesperson does little to heal, mend or bridge the divides in our society.
People do worse on a daily basis. Maybe a public appology (if he hasnt already) and lets move on. Villification at the hands of an unelected self-appointed spokesperson does little to heal, mend or bridge the divides in our society.
off_again said:
What he said was wrong, but hey everyone makes mistakes. I am in no way supporting, condoning or offering any form of support to what he said. But I think that the public stigma that he will now have is enough.
People do worse on a daily basis. Maybe a public appology (if he hasnt already) and lets move on. Villification at the hands of an unelected self-appointed spokesperson does little to heal, mend or bridge the divides in our society.
Judge the man by his actions. It is clearly obvious to even the meanest intellect that he is not a racist and I think he has suffered enough. As Ron himself says, he can't apologise any more than he already has.
I don't need the political thought police to tell me how to think. TBH if Ron Atkinson is good enough for John Barnes (a man not unused to racism) to have on his show then he's good enough for me.
Edited to correct apalling sentence construction
>> Edited by wolves_wanderer on Tuesday 14th December 10:11
Big Ron is not racist.....he did more for the first generation of black footballers in English football than any other manager......thereby laying foundations for today's excellent diverse mix in the modern football game.
daft thing to say agreed ..but he 'aint no racist......cherish Big Ron.....he is colourful in a world of sanitised Punditry & Managers in press conferences
daft thing to say agreed ..but he 'aint no racist......cherish Big Ron.....he is colourful in a world of sanitised Punditry & Managers in press conferences
I couldn't agree more, DeR.
For a man who so championed black footballers back in the 70s the program was a bit of a whitewash. Kicking a man when he's down. As said before, Ron has apologised. Its time to move on.
To drag up this dreadful situation again and subject poor Ron to former players, who, lets face it, perhaps without the influence of Atkinson would have amounted to nothing, showed ungratefulness and spite that at times I felt angered at and bewildered.
This smacks nothing more of petty Red Top trial by newspaper column and it bloody sickens me. To pour further fuel onto the fire was a cheap, pathetic media stunt.
At least Big Ron handled himself with dignity and came across as genuinely remorseful and humble. And for that I offer my muted applause.
For a man who so championed black footballers back in the 70s the program was a bit of a whitewash. Kicking a man when he's down. As said before, Ron has apologised. Its time to move on.
To drag up this dreadful situation again and subject poor Ron to former players, who, lets face it, perhaps without the influence of Atkinson would have amounted to nothing, showed ungratefulness and spite that at times I felt angered at and bewildered.
This smacks nothing more of petty Red Top trial by newspaper column and it bloody sickens me. To pour further fuel onto the fire was a cheap, pathetic media stunt.
At least Big Ron handled himself with dignity and came across as genuinely remorseful and humble. And for that I offer my muted applause.
The issue of "white good, black bad" is not the thoughts is rons mind. He just says what comes into his head.
His ignorance of just what a bad word it is just goes to prove he didn't mean the sort of evilness the reaction to this issue by this idiotssuggests
Ron may have an out dated old fashioned view of the world but that is because he is old school, a different generation.
All this panicing and flapping by the self appointed spokesmen of the black community and mincing media lovies (adrian childs and frank skinner inc) only succeeds to make an issue where there is none.
The bitterness over the use of one word, meant with only criticism of a poor footballing performance, only serves to strike a divide in society.
Classic example where the sort of people who went to the race awareness course with Ron resent being preached too and told they are bad people because they are not PC enough. Adrian Childs (who should be struck down for producing such a biased, self serving commentry) seems to think those people were a minority and all the extremists he visited were a force for all that is good a right in this world- wrong.
The majority of people don't care about skin colour and just want to get on with their lives together- Big Ron is a classic example.
His ignorance of just what a bad word it is just goes to prove he didn't mean the sort of evilness the reaction to this issue by this idiotssuggests
Ron may have an out dated old fashioned view of the world but that is because he is old school, a different generation.
All this panicing and flapping by the self appointed spokesmen of the black community and mincing media lovies (adrian childs and frank skinner inc) only succeeds to make an issue where there is none.
The bitterness over the use of one word, meant with only criticism of a poor footballing performance, only serves to strike a divide in society.
Classic example where the sort of people who went to the race awareness course with Ron resent being preached too and told they are bad people because they are not PC enough. Adrian Childs (who should be struck down for producing such a biased, self serving commentry) seems to think those people were a minority and all the extremists he visited were a force for all that is good a right in this world- wrong.
The majority of people don't care about skin colour and just want to get on with their lives together- Big Ron is a classic example.
Ron Atkinson was, no doubt, a very good football manager. Ron Atkinson is, no doubt, a very poor broadcaster. A professional broadcaster wouldn't have made the mistake that Ron made. In my view I'm afraid that the whole thing comes down to the cringing cult of celebrity. Football managers should stick to football management. If they want to be broadcasters they should be properly trained so that they can be professional broadcasters. If they aren't properly trained, they can't be professional and we shouldn't be surprised if, when they turn up on our TV screens, they make horrible mistakes and don't do the job professionally. If Ron had any sense he would have invested the last few months in some proper training. The fact that he hasn't means that he is still not properly equipped to be a broadcaster. I can't believe that his employers will risk something similar happening by offering his job back under these circumstances.
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. He made a stupid comment but its hardly the end of the world.
Many leaders of the anti-racsism lobby are as narrow minded as the extreme right groups. The vast majority of us in the middle (including Ron) never even think about race relations because we take people how we find them.
Q)Do you like black people?
A)I don't know i haven't met them all yet!
Many leaders of the anti-racsism lobby are as narrow minded as the extreme right groups. The vast majority of us in the middle (including Ron) never even think about race relations because we take people how we find them.
Q)Do you like black people?
A)I don't know i haven't met them all yet!
I remember seeing a black interviewer (can't remember who, but it may have been Garth Crooks), talking about a defensive mistake in a game that lead to a goal. The defender had barely jumped at all and he said, "Quite frankly he jumped like a white man", obviously making a funny based on the film title.
Can't remember any calls for sacking from the race relation board, or the BBC making a program about it though.
And didn't Oona King say last week that she was encouraged to become an MP because she knew she would be better than the "mediocre white male" she worked for.
I wouldn't dream of castigating Big Ron for what I believe was a daft mistake, when the issue only seems to be frowned upon in one direction.
Can't remember any calls for sacking from the race relation board, or the BBC making a program about it though.
And didn't Oona King say last week that she was encouraged to become an MP because she knew she would be better than the "mediocre white male" she worked for.
I wouldn't dream of castigating Big Ron for what I believe was a daft mistake, when the issue only seems to be frowned upon in one direction.
Mon Ami Mate said:
A professional broadcaster wouldn't have made the mistake that Ron made.
Have you ever heard of David Coleman Mon Ami?
Ron was off air and unmiked. A mistake for sure but if we can forgive Adams, McGuinness and co. for KILLING people I think Ron can be said to have served his time for causing offence (however grave).
There seems to me to be no perspective whatsoever in this.
Darcus Howe can be entertaining but last night, to me, he came across as the bigot of the two.
unrepentant said:
...if we can forgive Adams, McGuinness and co. for KILLING people I think Ron can be said to have served his time for causing offence (however grave).
There seems to me to be no perspective whatsoever in this.
Darcus Howe can be entertaining but last night, to me, he came across as the bigot of the two.
Mr.Bin enjoys a delightful meal at Claridges with Col.Go.
unrepentant said:
A professional broadcaster wouldn't have made the mistake that Ron made.
Have you ever heard of David Coleman Mon Ami?
Ron was off air and unmiked. A mistake for sure but if we can forgive Adams, McGuinness and co. for KILLING people I think Ron can be said to have served his time for causing offence (however grave).
There seems to me to be no perspective whatsoever in this.
Darcus Howe can be entertaining but last night, to me, he came across as the bigot of the two.
I think there's a big difference between a Colemanballs mixed metaphor and such a stupid and offensive outburst as Ron was guilty of. I do agree that he should be forgiven, but I don't think he should be accepted as a broadcaster until he has proved himself up to the standard required. There are hundreds of brilliant journalists out there who could all do a better job than he can.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
But that's my point. All these people are not trained broadcasters. When I talk of journalists in this context I mean television journalists, not tabloid scribes. Rodney Marsh was a great footballer but is a liability on television. He shouldn't be there - he doesn't offer anything positive at all.
A.G. said:
If big Ron is unemployable and to be vilified for the rest of his natural, what should we do with Prince Philip?
I think the fact that he is unemployed speaks volumes for his employability!
(python)
You don't vote for kings.
Well, how did he become one then?
The lady of the lake, her arm covered in shimmering...
(/python)
Mon Ami Mate said:
If big Ron is unemployable and to be vilified for the rest of his natural, what should we do with Prince Philip?
I think the fact that he is unemployed speaks volumes for his employability!
(python)
You don't vote for kings.
Well, how did he become one then?
The lady of the lake, her arm covered in shimmering...
(/python)
"You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you"
A.G. said:
Marsh and Atkinson are "pundits" for Gods sake.The whole point of them being there is that they are NOT broadcasters as such but individuals with a decades of history in the sport. Its the "entertainment" factor. They live or die by ratings, not college diplomas in TV presenting.
Yes, but Alan Hansen is also a pundit. He is also a properly trained broadcaster. He makes intelligent observations based on his excellent knowledge and experience and is not a liability on television. Andy Gray is probably the best pundit on television. He's properly trained too. It is possible to have former footballers who are also intelligent, articulate, well trained excellent presenters.
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Tuesday 14th December 13:49
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