Who killed Dr Kelly ?
Discussion
Very Strange
Paramedics question Kelly death
The Hutton inquiry concluded Dr Kelly died of wounds to his left wrist
Two paramedics called to the scene of the death of weapons expert Dr David Kelly have expressed doubts over the manner in which he died.
The Hutton inquiry said Dr Kelly died of wounds to his left wrist. But Dave Bartlett and Vanessa Hunt say there was not enough blood at the scene.
Ms Hunt told the Observer: "I just think it is incredibly unlikely that he died from the wrist wound we saw."
But police say they are fully satisfied with the outcome of their inquiries.
The scientist died after being named as the possible source of a BBC story.
The fact that the paramedics did not find sufficient blood does not mean that it was not spilt
Tom Mangold, friend of David Kelly
The story, which claimed that the government had "sexed-up" a dossier on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, led to the weapons inspector being subjected to intense pressure.
He was found dead at Harrowdown Hill woods, Oxfordshire, in July 2003.
The government then appointed Lord Hutton to conduct an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the scientist's death.
'Lack of blood'
Explaining her belief that the wound on Dr Kelly's wrist did not cause his death, Ms Hunt said: "There just wasn't a lot of blood.
"When someone cuts an artery, whether accidentally or intentionally, the blood pumps everywhere."
But she and her colleague claim that there was very little blood at the scene of Dr Kelly's death.
"There was no gaping wound....there wasn't a puddle of blood around.
"There was a little bit of blood on the nettles to the left of his left arm. But there was no real blood on the body of the shirt."
People will sometimes set out to kill themselves and die of another cause
Dr Bob Van Hegan, consultant pathologist
Dr Bob Van Hegan, a consultant pathologist, disagrees with the paramedics' assessment.
He told Sky News: "I don't see the discrepancies, to be honest. People will sometimes set out to kill themselves and die of another cause."
He said there were "three factors operating" which could have contributed to the scientist's death, in addition to the wrist wound.
Dr Van Hegan pointed out that Dr Kelly's coronary arteries were in a poor condition, he suffered from a vascular disease and he had taken an opiate drug.
"The cutting of the wrist may have played a small part," he concluded.
Ms Hunt originally drew attention to the lack of blood at the scene when they gave evidence at the Hutton Inquiry.
Tom Mangold, a former BBC journalist and friend of Dr Kelly, said: "The fact that the paramedics did not find sufficient blood does not mean that it was not spilt.
"Although I am sure they are speaking in good faith there is no doubt in my mind, or anyone else connected with the case, that David committed suicide."
And Mr Mangold dismissed the notion that his friend may have been killed, saying that it was "inconceivable".
Conspiracy theories
According to the Observer, the paramedics are not trying to spin conspiracy theories or offer alternative explanations.
The newspaper claims they merely seek to highlight their observations.
In March Oxfordshire coroner Nicholas Gardiner decided not to reconvene the inquest into Dr Kelly's death after it was adjourned while Lord Hutton held his inquiry.
The inquiry, which concluded that the weapons expert committed suicide, was deemed to remove the need for a full inquest.
A spokesman for Thames Valley Police said on Sunday: "[We] are fully satisfied with the outcome of the investigation into David Kelly's death.
"Our investigation was closely examined by the Hutton Inquiry and the Oxfordshire Coroner, who both agreed with our findings."
Paramedics question Kelly death
The Hutton inquiry concluded Dr Kelly died of wounds to his left wrist
Two paramedics called to the scene of the death of weapons expert Dr David Kelly have expressed doubts over the manner in which he died.
The Hutton inquiry said Dr Kelly died of wounds to his left wrist. But Dave Bartlett and Vanessa Hunt say there was not enough blood at the scene.
Ms Hunt told the Observer: "I just think it is incredibly unlikely that he died from the wrist wound we saw."
But police say they are fully satisfied with the outcome of their inquiries.
The scientist died after being named as the possible source of a BBC story.
The fact that the paramedics did not find sufficient blood does not mean that it was not spilt
Tom Mangold, friend of David Kelly
The story, which claimed that the government had "sexed-up" a dossier on Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, led to the weapons inspector being subjected to intense pressure.
He was found dead at Harrowdown Hill woods, Oxfordshire, in July 2003.
The government then appointed Lord Hutton to conduct an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the scientist's death.
'Lack of blood'
Explaining her belief that the wound on Dr Kelly's wrist did not cause his death, Ms Hunt said: "There just wasn't a lot of blood.
"When someone cuts an artery, whether accidentally or intentionally, the blood pumps everywhere."
But she and her colleague claim that there was very little blood at the scene of Dr Kelly's death.
"There was no gaping wound....there wasn't a puddle of blood around.
"There was a little bit of blood on the nettles to the left of his left arm. But there was no real blood on the body of the shirt."
People will sometimes set out to kill themselves and die of another cause
Dr Bob Van Hegan, consultant pathologist
Dr Bob Van Hegan, a consultant pathologist, disagrees with the paramedics' assessment.
He told Sky News: "I don't see the discrepancies, to be honest. People will sometimes set out to kill themselves and die of another cause."
He said there were "three factors operating" which could have contributed to the scientist's death, in addition to the wrist wound.
Dr Van Hegan pointed out that Dr Kelly's coronary arteries were in a poor condition, he suffered from a vascular disease and he had taken an opiate drug.
"The cutting of the wrist may have played a small part," he concluded.
Ms Hunt originally drew attention to the lack of blood at the scene when they gave evidence at the Hutton Inquiry.
Tom Mangold, a former BBC journalist and friend of Dr Kelly, said: "The fact that the paramedics did not find sufficient blood does not mean that it was not spilt.
"Although I am sure they are speaking in good faith there is no doubt in my mind, or anyone else connected with the case, that David committed suicide."
And Mr Mangold dismissed the notion that his friend may have been killed, saying that it was "inconceivable".
Conspiracy theories
According to the Observer, the paramedics are not trying to spin conspiracy theories or offer alternative explanations.
The newspaper claims they merely seek to highlight their observations.
In March Oxfordshire coroner Nicholas Gardiner decided not to reconvene the inquest into Dr Kelly's death after it was adjourned while Lord Hutton held his inquiry.
The inquiry, which concluded that the weapons expert committed suicide, was deemed to remove the need for a full inquest.
A spokesman for Thames Valley Police said on Sunday: "[We] are fully satisfied with the outcome of the investigation into David Kelly's death.
"Our investigation was closely examined by the Hutton Inquiry and the Oxfordshire Coroner, who both agreed with our findings."
[t-i-c mode]
Considering the poisoning incident re Ukraine election just goes to show that we are a more competent nation in respect of black missions.
[/t-i-c mode]
Lot more to the demise of that person (Dr K) than is or ever will be released into the public domain.
Allegedly of course.
Considering the poisoning incident re Ukraine election just goes to show that we are a more competent nation in respect of black missions.
[/t-i-c mode]
Lot more to the demise of that person (Dr K) than is or ever will be released into the public domain.
Allegedly of course.
Look at it from a personality point of view. Dr Kelly was a phlegmatic man, reliable, even tempered, as a scientist his thoughts under pressure would have most likely been measured and controlled. A chap in his position would have been extremely unlikely to flip under pressure, confident that he would use his knowledge and calmness to ensure his personal integrity remained. I think this was probably the most likely reason for his "murder". He could have been more damaging explaining himself, than explaining himself. People who generally commit suicide are either chronically depressed or hysterical. The blokes basic make up which was obvious meant that he was one of the least likely hysterics, hence suicide cases.
Nothing points to why he would have taken his own life. He could have quite easily explained himself or evaded the situation by going awol. A measured, calm guy like this would have been able to think straight and consider all the options. As a scientist, this would be integral.
He was wasted by the government. Guaranteed. You just can't prove it, somewhere somebody knows but they are in their position for the same reasons. Keeping quiet.
I have a few mates, very good, old mates which I would class as proper chums. They do very high level secret stuff and won't say a word. It is secret and that's that. Not a word or even an indication. Whatever it is that keeps them quiet really works.
The people who know the proper truth will keep quiet, so it isn't really worthy of conversation.
I would be cynical and say that this is a pre-election clean up exercise. Bring it out, shit on him some more, make themselves look great and everyone claps.
Nothing points to why he would have taken his own life. He could have quite easily explained himself or evaded the situation by going awol. A measured, calm guy like this would have been able to think straight and consider all the options. As a scientist, this would be integral.
He was wasted by the government. Guaranteed. You just can't prove it, somewhere somebody knows but they are in their position for the same reasons. Keeping quiet.
I have a few mates, very good, old mates which I would class as proper chums. They do very high level secret stuff and won't say a word. It is secret and that's that. Not a word or even an indication. Whatever it is that keeps them quiet really works.
The people who know the proper truth will keep quiet, so it isn't really worthy of conversation.
I would be cynical and say that this is a pre-election clean up exercise. Bring it out, shit on him some more, make themselves look great and everyone claps.
hedders said:
I hate him so much it's beginning to worry me...
I can't stand to see him on TV these days, the grinning c*nt....I have to change channels.
I agree why can't somebody else be worth worth voteing for it can't be that hard... Howard come on,.. I'd rather cut my head off with a melon than vote for you
yertis said:
Come on, enough with the conspiracy theories - Tony Blair's a trustworthy kind of a guy...
I hate him so much it's beginning to worry me...
Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him most. Bet I hate him more. Oh
If it looks like fish and smells like fish, it's fishy. Something definitely smells a bit funny about the whole thing.
zetec said:
Why has it taken this long for the paramedics to do this news conference? Surely it didn't take this long for them to learn thier lines? Or did it??
Maybe they didn't feel safe with the first hand knowledge they had. Now their story is out in public if they happen to 'accidentally' fall from a tall building or eat poisoned food it's going to raise even more questions.
He's not the only british scientist that worked on government projects that has died under suspicious circumstances.
Have a look at this, its heavy reading and a bit
if true.
www.ciagents.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=41
All the above worked on the top secret American Star Wars defence project.
>> Edited by zooooom on Monday 13th December 01:32
Have a look at this, its heavy reading and a bit
if true. www.ciagents.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=41
All the above worked on the top secret American Star Wars defence project.
>> Edited by zooooom on Monday 13th December 01:32
Before we all get too conspiracy oriented it may be worth considering that he was actually said to have died from a co-proxamol overdose.
Co-proxamol is a part opiate drug, fairly easily obtainable from a doctor and was a favourite drug of suicide some years back, although for some reason not so much recently.
He takes the drug and walks to an isolated location. Very much consistent with a logical mind. It is falacy, although comfortable to believe everyone who commits suicide is depressed or unbalanced. I have know some very sensible people commit suicide, they just do it in a different way.
You will get very little blood from a wrist laceration, if, one, you watch too much T.V. and slash your wrists across, or two you are somewhere cold with you periphery shutdown, or three, your circulatory system is already shutting down because your dying of the co-proxamol overdose.
I find it very difficult to believe that black ops would be involved unless it was the most hamfisted operation ever. His death sparked far more interest than discrediting him, which would have been fairly easy. The water mitty mud was already being sucessfully thrown. His death would have been the last thing the government wanted.
Co-proxamol is a part opiate drug, fairly easily obtainable from a doctor and was a favourite drug of suicide some years back, although for some reason not so much recently.
He takes the drug and walks to an isolated location. Very much consistent with a logical mind. It is falacy, although comfortable to believe everyone who commits suicide is depressed or unbalanced. I have know some very sensible people commit suicide, they just do it in a different way.
You will get very little blood from a wrist laceration, if, one, you watch too much T.V. and slash your wrists across, or two you are somewhere cold with you periphery shutdown, or three, your circulatory system is already shutting down because your dying of the co-proxamol overdose.
I find it very difficult to believe that black ops would be involved unless it was the most hamfisted operation ever. His death sparked far more interest than discrediting him, which would have been fairly easy. The water mitty mud was already being sucessfully thrown. His death would have been the last thing the government wanted.
Then maybe it wasn't so hamfisted after all...
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff