Father banned from home for smacking his son
Discussion
Any left-leaners care to try to justify this?
We must get this Government out before it does any more permanent social damage to our nation.
www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,173-1395197,00.html
Father banned from home for smacking his son
By Russell Jenkins
A FATHER was barred from his family home for six months, effectively missing the start of his newborn daughter’s life, because a policeman spotted him giving his young son a smack during a shopping trip.
The man, 41, not named for legal reasons, pleaded guilty to assaulting the child and was given a two-year rehabiliation order by Manchester magistrates yesterday.
He told them that he used a “little bit too much force” but gave his three-year-old only a single smack on the bottom for running in front of a car. In the six months that it took for the case to reach court, he was barred from living at home with his partner, son and baby girl.
He was forbidden from enjoying unsupervised contact with his son and, for several months, was not allowed to talk to him on the phone. Bail conditions also put his new job as a youth worker in jeopardy and damaged the relationship between father and son, said his lawyer, while his partner struggled with depressive illness to bring up the children alone.
Family Focus, a campaign group for family values, last night condemned the court’s action as the worst case of state interference it has come across for some time.
Sara Lewis, in mitigation, said that both parents had been concerned that the boy had put himself in danger.
At the time, he had been playing up and both mother and father were at the “end of their tether”, she said.
We must get this Government out before it does any more permanent social damage to our nation.
www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,173-1395197,00.html
Father banned from home for smacking his son
By Russell Jenkins
A FATHER was barred from his family home for six months, effectively missing the start of his newborn daughter’s life, because a policeman spotted him giving his young son a smack during a shopping trip.
The man, 41, not named for legal reasons, pleaded guilty to assaulting the child and was given a two-year rehabiliation order by Manchester magistrates yesterday.
He told them that he used a “little bit too much force” but gave his three-year-old only a single smack on the bottom for running in front of a car. In the six months that it took for the case to reach court, he was barred from living at home with his partner, son and baby girl.
He was forbidden from enjoying unsupervised contact with his son and, for several months, was not allowed to talk to him on the phone. Bail conditions also put his new job as a youth worker in jeopardy and damaged the relationship between father and son, said his lawyer, while his partner struggled with depressive illness to bring up the children alone.
Family Focus, a campaign group for family values, last night condemned the court’s action as the worst case of state interference it has come across for some time.
Sara Lewis, in mitigation, said that both parents had been concerned that the boy had put himself in danger.
At the time, he had been playing up and both mother and father were at the “end of their tether”, she said.
In a situation like seemed to have happened in this case, that being a tantrum throwing pushing his parents as far as he can and then putting himself in danger a good solid smack is the only option.
My wife and I had lots of discussions about ways of disiplining our daughter, the softly softly approaches have there place most of the time but the need for a sharp smack is well called for in certain circumstances. Our daughter is almost 3 now and really pushing the boundaries that are set for her. I suspect that was what this kid was doing. It is only natural but can be extreemly dangerous for the child, hence the need for a quick attitude adjusting responce. Not a "Please son/daughter come back here and be a good little boy/girl" responce that could get them killed.
Andy
My wife and I had lots of discussions about ways of disiplining our daughter, the softly softly approaches have there place most of the time but the need for a sharp smack is well called for in certain circumstances. Our daughter is almost 3 now and really pushing the boundaries that are set for her. I suspect that was what this kid was doing. It is only natural but can be extreemly dangerous for the child, hence the need for a quick attitude adjusting responce. Not a "Please son/daughter come back here and be a good little boy/girl" responce that could get them killed.
Andy
I would have thought the the police should have exercised a bit of common sense and just given the guy a caution. To go to those lengths for one smack is ridiculous.
On another note, why is everything like this automatically described as Leftist? Surely everyone knows by now that the current Labour government are not Left. Furthermore, Left is not synonymous with Liberal or hippy.
>> Edited by birdbrain on Thursday 9th December 08:38
On another note, why is everything like this automatically described as Leftist? Surely everyone knows by now that the current Labour government are not Left. Furthermore, Left is not synonymous with Liberal or hippy.
>> Edited by birdbrain on Thursday 9th December 08:38
birdbrain said:
I would have thought the the police should have exercised a bit of common sense and just given the guy a caution.
I can't even see why that would be appropriate for smacking his son because he almost killed himself. And as for the police and a security guard judging the level of the smack?!
Some people it seems (and I include the government and the police here) like to tar any parent who smacks as an abuser and that is wrong, even by their own recent rejection of "smack ban" legislation.
If I was the father in this case I would be absolutely furious that some complete arse has deemed it in the childrens best interests to be away from their father for 6 months.
Have any of these nanny-state muppets suggested a workable method of getting the message across to a 3-year-old that running in front of a car is dangerous? How long will it be before a child gets run down and the parents sue the government for not allowing them to effectively teach the child that there are certain things that they must not do?
miniman said:
Have any of these nanny-state muppets suggested a workable method of getting the message across to a 3-year-old that running in front of a car is dangerous? How long will it be before a child gets run down and the parents sue the government for not allowing them to effectively teach the child that there are certain things that they must not do?
Apparently car drivers are supposed to Th!nk™ that kids are allowed to play in the road now, so its ok - it would be the car driver's fault, not the kid's or the parents'.
Fecking PC nonsense.
IvIark said:
I can't even see why that would be appropriate for smacking his son because he almost killed himself. And as for the police and a security guard judging the level of the smack?!
Some people it seems (and I include the government and the police here) like to tar any parent who smacks as an abuser and that is wrong, even by their own recent rejection of "smack ban" legislation.
I don't agree with making smacking children illegal. There are times when a smack is necessary and clearly this was one of those times. My point was more that if the police HAD to do something then surely a caution would have been more appropriate.
With my daughter of three I have yet had to smack her and I don't intend to. There's plenty of times where it's been my instinct to do so but there's always another way to get her to behave and they work (at least as well as smacking them does at any rate judging by her mates).
In my honest opinion saying that sometimes a smack is necessary or nothing else would have done the job is an excuse for the fact that you lost your temper and walloped them one.
As for the old "it never did me any harm" then continue if you want your kids to think of you as I did/do of my dad.
Feel free to flame away, you may not like it (and therefore no doubt label it as leftyism gone mad
) but it's the other side of the coin.
Mark
BTW, we taught our daughter not to go near the road by sitting down and explaining what would happen if she did over and over again using our tail-less cat as an example or what can happen. She still forgets and you have to hold her hand just in case she gets carried away but that's 3 year olds for you. I fail to see how beating them at the side of the road would help in the slightest.
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 9th December 09:22
In my honest opinion saying that sometimes a smack is necessary or nothing else would have done the job is an excuse for the fact that you lost your temper and walloped them one.
As for the old "it never did me any harm" then continue if you want your kids to think of you as I did/do of my dad.
Feel free to flame away, you may not like it (and therefore no doubt label it as leftyism gone mad
) but it's the other side of the coin. Mark
BTW, we taught our daughter not to go near the road by sitting down and explaining what would happen if she did over and over again using our tail-less cat as an example or what can happen. She still forgets and you have to hold her hand just in case she gets carried away but that's 3 year olds for you. I fail to see how beating them at the side of the road would help in the slightest.
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 9th December 09:22
gh0st said:Fish, ghost, care to elucidate? Or can you not rise above just gratuitous abuse?
Turbobloke I think sums it up perfectly. Tony you are a twat.
I think his point was valid. Explain why and contribute or keep quiet.
To the point; this is utter nonsense. A parent must be best placed to decide on discipline of their child. How can the policeman have known what circumstances led to this particular smack?
The liberal bleeding hearts oft state that there is a fine line between discipline and abuse. Sorry, that is cr*p. There is a huge gulf, and to my mind anyone who cannot see that is worthy of very close scrutiny as there walks a potential abuser. They don't trust themselves because they don't see a distinction, and judge everyone in their own light.
stupid.dern said:
In my honest opinion saying that sometimes a smack is necessary or nothing else would have done the job is an excuse for the fact that you lost your temper and walloped them one.
BTW, we taught our daughter not to go near the road by sitting down and explaining what would happen if she did over and over again using our tail-less cat as an example or what can happen. She still forgets and you have to hold her hand just in case she gets carried away but that's 3 year olds for you. I fail to see how beating them at the side of the road would help in the slightest.
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 9th December 09:22
i hardly think a single smack is 'beating them at the side of the road'. think you need a bit of perspective here. one single smack to warn a child away from a dangerous situation is NOT, in my opinion excessive.
as for the first part of your post, i'm sure there are instances where that has occured, but generally, I think most people would use smacking as the final resort, have thought about it and coupled it with an explanation, not 'walloped them one', i'm sure single jolt would be the norm not a 'wallop'.
it's basically aversion therapy isn't it? when i was little i was insistant lightbulbs weren't hot. so i put my hand on it. didn't do it again. same here: 3 yr old runs out towards road. gets a smack. thinks 'i'm not doing that again'.
dern said:
With my daughter of three I have yet had to smack her and I don't intend to. There's plenty of times where it's been my instinct to do so but there's always another way to get her to behave and they work (at least as well as smacking them does at any rate judging by her mates).
In my honest opinion saying that sometimes a smack is necessary or nothing else would have done the job is an excuse for the fact that you lost your temper and walloped them one.
As for the old "it never did me any harm" then continue if you want your kids to think of you as I did/do of my dad.
Feel free to flame away, you may not like it (and therefore no doubt label it as leftyism gone mad
Mark
BTW, we taught our daughter not to go near the road by sitting down and explaining what would happen if she did over and over again using our tail-less cat as an example or what can happen. She still forgets and you have to hold her hand just in case she gets carried away but that's 3 year olds for you. I fail to see how beating them at the side of the road would help in the slightest.
>> Edited by dern on Thursday 9th December 09:22
Thank you for your kind invitation to flame
Different children respond in different ways. Some are always well behaved and some are defiant. Now mine are a little older, they rarely need a smack, but smacking is still in my arsenal and provides a useful verbal warning. They know I'll do it if they have been warned.
It's not the only weapon in a parents arsenal to get a stroppy three year old to behave, but it's important to have it available as a deterrent.
We have seen a marked fall in standards of behaviour since schools banned the cane. I'm sorry, but IMHO corporal punishment works. It's not always necessary, but the knowledge that it may happen helps.
If your children behave with just talking to them and explaining, I'm genuinely envious. Mine would sometimes look at me with a look of contempt and real venom if I chastised them.
Children constantly push the boundaries or are just plain stupid sometimes and parents need to be able to control them so that they are safe and grow up to become respectful adults.
Oh, and Dern, while I'm flaming, don't change the words. The father smacked, not beat his child. There is a WORLD of difference and you know it!
dern said:
In my honest opinion saying that sometimes a smack is necessary or nothing else would have done the job is an excuse for the fact that you lost your temper and walloped them one.
Well that's your opinion but your daughter may well be a little angel in comparison with other kids and so you may not be the voice of experience.
I have a 3 year old boy and will smack him if I feel he's done something that could be a danger to himself. If you think that means I've just got a short fuse and can't control myself then you're very sadly mistaken.
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