London Transport X-raying passengers?
Discussion
I heard a report on the radio yesterday that LT have installed some kind of scanning equipment at Hammersmith station.
This scanner supposedly scans EVERYONE that comes in or out of the station and looks for guns/knives, but surely it can not be a metal detector as they can't ask everyone to empty their pockets ..or can they?
I can't find a news link anywhere, but it seems to me that if the story is true, then this must be an X-ray machine, which does not sound safe and certainly sounds like an invasion of privacy!
anyone know anything about it?
This scanner supposedly scans EVERYONE that comes in or out of the station and looks for guns/knives, but surely it can not be a metal detector as they can't ask everyone to empty their pockets ..or can they?
I can't find a news link anywhere, but it seems to me that if the story is true, then this must be an X-ray machine, which does not sound safe and certainly sounds like an invasion of privacy!
anyone know anything about it?
This sounds like one of these new through clothes x-ray scanners. Its a bit like the one in the bond movie or in xXx. The idea is the xrays penetrate clothes but not you so they can see what you've got hidden in your pockets.
Bit of a civil liberties grey area. It means people can see you sort of naked (or at least the shape of you naked) without you knowing about it.
Also its a legal problem for the guy using the machine. If a child walks through and someone looks at them essentialy nakedish, is this paedophillia?
Not nice things. The government should have thought more about these (airports are getting them too) before allowing them. Typical reation of security is more omportant than privacy!
Bit of a civil liberties grey area. It means people can see you sort of naked (or at least the shape of you naked) without you knowing about it.
Also its a legal problem for the guy using the machine. If a child walks through and someone looks at them essentialy nakedish, is this paedophillia?
Not nice things. The government should have thought more about these (airports are getting them too) before allowing them. Typical reation of security is more omportant than privacy!
cheers 
I wonder if it is illegal to protect yourself from xray?
I fancy loitering around the station with one of these under my clothes to see what happens.
www.marshield.com/pages/fullwrapaprons.html
I wonder if it is illegal to protect yourself from xray?
I fancy loitering around the station with one of these under my clothes to see what happens.
www.marshield.com/pages/fullwrapaprons.html
I can see this in two ways. On the one hand, if you're not intending to indulge in any criminal activity, what are you worried about? Surely it's better to stamp out the possibilty of robbery and violence than have the satisfaction that no-one can look in your pockets? 
It could be you who is robbed or stabbed...
On the other hand, no form of x-ray is safe. Without boring anyone, there are two kinds of deliterious effects from x-rays: stochastic and non-stochastic. Stochastic effects are immediate and depend upon a large powerful dose eg radiation burns. Non-stochastic effects are long term eg cancer, and this is not dose dependant but purely chance. ie no matter how small the dose you still have the same risk of DNA mutation.
regards
Driller
It could be you who is robbed or stabbed... On the other hand, no form of x-ray is safe. Without boring anyone, there are two kinds of deliterious effects from x-rays: stochastic and non-stochastic. Stochastic effects are immediate and depend upon a large powerful dose eg radiation burns. Non-stochastic effects are long term eg cancer, and this is not dose dependant but purely chance. ie no matter how small the dose you still have the same risk of DNA mutation.
regards
Driller
The counter argument to that is if you've got nothing to hide then why not let a railways worker strip search every time you walk through a train station.
Would a woman want a male ticket inspector to strip search them. Would you want your children strip searched by an unknown person? Yet this is essentially what this device is doing.
It is an invasion of privacy.
Would a woman want a male ticket inspector to strip search them. Would you want your children strip searched by an unknown person? Yet this is essentially what this device is doing.
It is an invasion of privacy.
jimothy said:
The counter argument to that is if you've got nothing to hide then why not let a railways worker strip search every time you walk through a train station.
Would a woman want a male ticket inspector to strip search them. Would you want your children strip searched by an unknown person? Yet this is essentially what this device is doing.
It is an invasion of privacy.
Oh come on! How can you compare being strip searched to a digitised and stylised 2 dimensional image of what's in your pockets?
The difference with planes is its a metal detector with possibly a pat down if it goes ping, and everyone knows about them.
These new ones are an unknown quantity and the public doesn't know about them.
As for the comparison with a strip search, yes I know you can't see as much. I believe (never having used one and only going on news stories) that you can see as much as if you were looking at a person in see through clothes using a very bad night vision camera. You can make out the shape of the body and other pocket contents (keys, knives, guns etc), but its certainly enough for a pervert to get their rocks off...
The public needs a demonstration (get Tony Blair to walk through one live on tv. On second thoughts lets not, lets get Keira Knightly to do it instead! Yum) so we can all make up our minds before these go live. Also, lets hear about the risks to health and to personal property/medical devices. I don;t want my photos wiped just by catching the tube (like the first xray machines in airports used to do!)
These new ones are an unknown quantity and the public doesn't know about them.
As for the comparison with a strip search, yes I know you can't see as much. I believe (never having used one and only going on news stories) that you can see as much as if you were looking at a person in see through clothes using a very bad night vision camera. You can make out the shape of the body and other pocket contents (keys, knives, guns etc), but its certainly enough for a pervert to get their rocks off...
The public needs a demonstration (get Tony Blair to walk through one live on tv. On second thoughts lets not, lets get Keira Knightly to do it instead! Yum) so we can all make up our minds before these go live. Also, lets hear about the risks to health and to personal property/medical devices. I don;t want my photos wiped just by catching the tube (like the first xray machines in airports used to do!)
hedders said:
cheers
I wonder if it is illegal to protect yourself from xray?
I fancy loitering around the station with one of these under my clothes to see what happens.
www.marshield.com/pages/fullwrapaprons.html
Well, the BiB will get you for preventing a speed camera taking a reading.
So I expect it will soon be illegal to try and outwit any 'official' activity.
2005 - New law: House curtains must be open at all time - in case BiB want to check on possibility of a crime in progress.
jimothy said:
The public needs a demonstration (get Tony Blair to walk through one live on tv. On second thoughts lets not, lets get Keira Knightly to do it instead! Yum) so we can all make up our minds before these go live. Also, lets hear about the risks to health and to personal property/medical devices. I don;t want my photos wiped just by catching the tube (like the first xray machines in airports used to do!)
Agreed, a demonstration would be good...and How long will it be before other companies can use these kinds of things...I don't particularly want your average security guard peering through mine or my kids clothes, thanks all the same..
Upon further thought...this thing can't see through your skin, right?
So all you have to know is where the camera is, and you can hide anything up to the size of a machete between your arm and your side...
or you could conceal a hand grenade in your hand inside your pocket...or put your handgun in a lead lined bag in your pocket.
This equipment will only catch small time criminals and not people who know it's limitations..like terrorists for example
So all you have to know is where the camera is, and you can hide anything up to the size of a machete between your arm and your side...
or you could conceal a hand grenade in your hand inside your pocket...or put your handgun in a lead lined bag in your pocket.
This equipment will only catch small time criminals and not people who know it's limitations..like terrorists for example
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