Hungerford Massacre
Discussion
From the accounts I've read and seen no one seems sure what started it but he went into some woods and killed a woman having a picnic with her two children, then stopped at a garage to get petrol and tried to kill the woman working there but the gun didn't go off and then tried to do a runner after torching his house but his car didn't start so he set off on foot around Hungerford.
Horrific.
Mark
Horrific.
Mark
The Police had recieved complaints about Ryan and should have taken his licence to own the Guns away. Perhaps even worse than that was the response. The ACC in charge didn't even know that those arms could be owned by the public! The Armed Response team were over an hour away and the Nearest officer able to carry firearms had only a Handgun. His Sniper rifle had to be collected by the force helicopter which had been in a hanger being repaired. It at least resulted in the communication infrastructure being totally revamped which in part led to more deaths.
I think the bottom line is, as mentioned, complaints had been made to the police - when dealing with weapons of this nature they should have been removed pending investigation. As a gun owner my self (686 12G) I see no reason for the private ownership of automatic or semi automatic centre fire weapons, they can't be 'fun' or challenging to fire as you can't exactly target shoot with them and their hardly a tool for pest control!
It was mentioned on the documentary that the catalyst for his actions could have been his mother going for a job interview.
Matt
It was mentioned on the documentary that the catalyst for his actions could have been his mother going for a job interview.
Matt
The problem was that at the time He forfilled the requirements. Secure accomodation for the weapons and a clean criminal record. The complaints made SHOULD have counted againest him but were not investigated. Onl;y when He changed the guns frequently was a visit thought to be in order. The same problem surfaced again and made a mockery of the same loophole in Dunblane allowing another massacre. Guns, knifes etc are here and CAN Kill. They will never go away either despite all efforts to legislate them out of existance.
As an aside Roger Brereton Looks like a BIB who would have been a welcome and a credit to the BIB's on the SP&L Forum.
Here's a link to an online book about Hungerford.
www.jeremyjosephs.com/hunger.htm
>> Edited by telecat on Tuesday 7th December 22:52
As an aside Roger Brereton Looks like a BIB who would have been a welcome and a credit to the BIB's on the SP&L Forum.
Here's a link to an online book about Hungerford.
www.jeremyjosephs.com/hunger.htm
>> Edited by telecat on Tuesday 7th December 22:52
I watched the programme - it was chilling. I was imagining if some nutter went around my community shooting people at random. It could easily be hours before the coppers corner him, even nowadays. In the case of this nutter, he could easily have klled more than 14 if he'd elected to.
The odd thing is, the psychologist reckon it was his mum going for an interview which triggered it. I find that very hard to believe, but there again I'm nt "nutty as a fruitcake".
The odd thing is, the psychologist reckon it was his mum going for an interview which triggered it. I find that very hard to believe, but there again I'm nt "nutty as a fruitcake".
An interesting but not well known fact is that the SAS where travelling down to London on the M4 and heard on their police scanners about the incident (before he started killing everybody i.e. there is a man walking around with a shooter) so they drove over as it was only 10 minutes from their position.
When they got there they offered to use their new 'mega' tear gas that stops anybody dead within 5 seconds (not that crap the Police use). The office in charge declined the offer so the SAS left. 45 minutes he shot all those people
>> Edited by darrent on Wednesday 8th December 10:26
When they got there they offered to use their new 'mega' tear gas that stops anybody dead within 5 seconds (not that crap the Police use). The office in charge declined the offer so the SAS left. 45 minutes he shot all those people
>> Edited by darrent on Wednesday 8th December 10:26
pzero64 said:
It proved to me what time can do with your memory. I thought he killed his mother first, then went out and harmed the other people.
Hateful way to learn, but the incident helped to buck up this countries emergency services phone/radio systems (as previously noted by telecat).
This is strange...because I too was under the same assumption.....where this came from I don't know.
matt_t16 said:
As a gun owner my self (686 12G) I see no reason for the private ownership of automatic or semi automatic centre fire weapons, they can't be 'fun' or challenging to fire as you can't exactly target shoot with them and their hardly a tool for pest control!
Matt
Have to Disagree on this point. firing an semi or auto gun is a lot of fun. Perhaps there is no place in our society for the risk v fun element for civilians to own said gun or to keep at home, but it certainly is fun. (in a controlled manner)
There are many ranges with good pop up and moving targets to fire all mannor of rifles, pistol, m.guns at, MOD ranges but target shooting on them is fun.
You havnt said it but there are some who would say driving fast is not fun.....
dern said:
From the accounts I've read and seen no one seems sure what started it but he went into some woods and killed a woman having a picnic with her two children, then stopped at a garage to get petrol and tried to kill the woman working there but the gun didn't go off and then tried to do a runner after torching his house but his car didn't start so he set off on foot around Hungerford.
Horrific.
Mark
I missed the first few minutes too, but not the bit where the first victim's two children - daughter aged 4 and son aged 2 - were later found walking hand-in-hand through the Savernake forest not far from where their mother was killed.
The lady who found them asked what they were doing on their own and got the following repsonse:
'My name's xxx and I'm four and this is my brother yyy and he's two and the man in black killed our mummy so we're going home and we know where we live 'cos it's the house with the blue door so that's where we're going.'
Made me feel physically ill - it was a struggle to watch the rest.
Credit to the 'authorities' though, there do seem to have been a lot of infrastructure changes since that would have enabled the police to get him sooner.
srebbe64 said:
The odd thing is, the psychologist reckon it was his mum going for an interview which triggered it. I find that very hard to believe, but there again I'm nt "nutty as a fruitcake".
Betrayal and revenge: powerful forces. Except that most of us don't resort to killing to feel better - that's where the psychopath element comes in.
Re the SAS tear gas - not the best tool to stop a highly mobile guy walking around outdoors, surely? It would be as predictable as the gas attacks in WW1: not the sort of thing Plod wants amongst innocent bystanders.
telecat said:
The Police had recieved complaints about Ryan and should have taken his licence to own the Guns away. Perhaps even worse than that was the response. The ACC in charge didn't even know that those arms could be owned by the public!
Yes, there was a perfectly adequate system in place to stop this sort of person, but the bungling caused every legally held handgun to be taken away. Both Dunblane and Hungerford could have been avoided if procedures were followed, as could the knee-jerk reaction to take away handguns have been avoided. Now only criminals have them and we know how gun crime has risen since the ban.
james_j said:
Yes, there was a perfectly adequate system in place to stop this sort of person, but the bungling caused every legally held handgun to be taken away. Both Dunblane and Hungerford could have been avoided if procedures were followed, as could the knee-jerk reaction to take away handguns have been avoided.
I suspect the media had a big part to play, leading to 'outraged' mums with 'Toddlers against Guns' banners. And then Govt has to follow the herd.
If you read the Online book I posted, the press don't come out of this very well. As well as the expected headlines they tried to lay the blame on "First Blood", a photographer gained access to a crime scene and sold the photos which were printed by one of the gutter tabloids and doorstepped anybody in the area. To cap it all a Journalist complained to the Press commission Herslf about the conduct of Journalist's.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff