Ahhh redundancies
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4073571.stm
You've gotta love them! Still at least I had no plans to stay long term in the job - it's those with families and those that can't relocate to easily that I feel sorry for.
It has to be done...but Ouch!
Phil
You've gotta love them! Still at least I had no plans to stay long term in the job - it's those with families and those that can't relocate to easily that I feel sorry for.
It has to be done...but Ouch!
Phil
Gazboy said:
The company I work for is making redundancies, but not because it's skint, but because of sheer bloody minded greed. Last year they made £300,000,000+ profit, this year it is projected to be £400,000,000. The turnover is £2.3bn so far this year!
For some reason 'they' want to save another £32,000,000, so for the last 6 months, there has been 300 redundancies per month, on Friday 2000 people got their notice (3,000 redundant last year). My ultimate boss is still erning £2.6m a year however.
I know the idea of a business is to make as much money as possible, but this is a mickey take.
No, there comes a point where "enough" money is being made and a social conscience should take over. Don't ask me to define when enough is enough though.
Gazboy said:
The company I work for is making redundancies, but not because it's skint, but because of sheer bloody minded greed. Last year they made £300,000,000+ profit, this year it is projected to be £400,000,000. The turnover is £2.3bn so far this year!
For some reason 'they' want to save another £32,000,000, so for the last 6 months, there has been 300 redundancies per month, on Friday 2000 people got their notice (3,000 redundant last year). My ultimate boss is still erning £2.6m a year however.
I know the idea of a business is to make as much money as possible, but this is a mickey take.
I agree, there comes a point where they take the pi55 - it's like the banks - massive profits but you have difficulty in speaking to your local branch.
How can your company make that many jobless in one go though - massively overstaffed?
Not many people could do that without a massive effect on the business. How many do you employ?
Surely it's a capitalist (read Tory) ideal to make huge profits - anything else is just socialism and that'd be frowned upon on this forum!
mondeoman said:
No, there comes a point where "enough" money is being made and a social conscience should take over. Don't ask me to define when enough is enough though.
No, a business has a duty to make as much money as possible for its shareholders.
Being in Business is not a Charity, it is not there for the benefit of the employees, all though they must of coarse be well looked after!
Signed.. A true capatilist!
vixpy1 said:So Bophal was OK then
No, a business has a duty to make as much money as possible for its shareholders.
Being in Business is not a Charity, it is not there for the benefit of the employees, all though they must of coarse be well looked after!
Signed.. A true capatilist!
Everyone has a civic duty to make the world a better place
IMHO anywayWell, what I meant was that everybody's for making a profit to survive but where large companies who are an area's major employer do well and make good profits their role may change to one of responsibility to the area in terms of keeping the locals employed - look at Longbridge - or the mining areas 20 years ago.
They become very important to the area and for a lot of employment also in local suppliers to themselves - and if large companies making good money are seen to make largescale redundancies it's not good PR - even though they may be becoming leaner - and henceforth making EVEN more money ...
>> Edited by MikeyT on Tuesday 7th December 15:49
They become very important to the area and for a lot of employment also in local suppliers to themselves - and if large companies making good money are seen to make largescale redundancies it's not good PR - even though they may be becoming leaner - and henceforth making EVEN more money ...
>> Edited by MikeyT on Tuesday 7th December 15:49
MikeyT said:I think this is a really bad example, as they weren't making any money, on account of them being a bit shit
look at Longbridge - or the mining areas 20 years ago.
The worst thing to do was bail them out initialy as that didn't gice them any incentive to get better. If they'd started mining more effectively and producing cars more effectively rather than bung thousands of pound on every import, the industry might still be alive today
vixpy1 said:
No, there comes a point where "enough" money is being made and a social conscience should take over. Don't ask me to define when enough is enough though.
No, a business has a duty to make as much money as possible for its shareholders.
Being in Business is not a Charity, it is not there for the benefit of the employees, all though they must of coarse be well looked after!
Signed.. A true capatilist!
Sorry mate but thats bollocks. A business exists:
1 With the permission of the community it is located in, without that permission it will be closed.
2 For the benefit of owners (shareholders)
3 For the benefit of employees
4 For the benefit of customers
5 For the benefit of the community in which it is located
If any of these is missing in your business, start worrying.
vixpy1 said:What you said was
I can promise you most people don't start Business's for the greater good of Mankind, most do it to make lots of money!
vixpy1 said:It has do do this within morally acceptable boudaries ie not ignoring the deaths of thousands of people a la union carbide
No, a business has a duty to make as much money as possible for its shareholders.
Incorrigible said:
I can promise you most people don't start Business's for the greater good of Mankind, most do it to make lots of money!
What you said wasvixpy1 said:
No, a business has a duty to make as much money as possible for its shareholders.
It has do do this within morally acceptable boudaries ie not ignoring the deaths of thousands of people a la union carbide
I should have added... 'within the law'
Incorrigible said:
look at Longbridge - or the mining areas 20 years ago.
I think this is a really bad example, as they weren't making any money, on account of them being a bit shit
The worst thing to do was bail them out initialy as that didn't gice them any incentive to get better. If they'd started mining more effectively and producing cars more effectively rather than bung thousands of pound on every import, the industry might still be alive today
Ben, I was giving examples of industries or companies on which the immediate communities relied heavily ...
I do agree that the two cited examples were different because they weren't making any money because of declining needs, not willing to accept industry change etc, but couldn't quickly think of a large company employing hundreds even thousands in the one location shipping jobs whilst making excessive profits ... sorry.
Gazboy said:The first aim of any business is to stay in business. That requires the permission of the marketplace as part of the community dimension. Internally, the notion that reducing costs represents sound management has been taken to obscene levels and this sounds like an example - of course any waste of money should be eliminated but 'people' at a reasonable staffing level represent investment not cost, and if Directors fail to appreciate that they're not fit to run a company IMO.
I know the idea of a business is to make as much money as possible, but this is a mickey take.
nonegreen said:
Sorry mate but thats bollocks. A business exists:
1 With the permission of the community it is located in, without that permission it will be closed.
2 For the benefit of owners (shareholders)
3 For the benefit of employees
4 For the benefit of customers
5 For the benefit of the community in which it is located
If any of these is missing in your business, start worrying.
1, No, not the community, the council.. an entirly different thing, I know its supposed to be, but when you find a council that represents the views of the community... phone the papers!
2, Yes
3, I don't run my company for the benefit of my employees, I take them on so that I can take on more customers and my company makes more money, not through the niceness of my heart. It is however important to treat those employees well, pay them fairly so you hold onto them
4, My customers pay for a service I supply, so yes.. I am benefiting my customers, and they come back if the benefit to them is good. Its a fair point.
5, Have you BEEN to Camberley?
vixpy1 said:
3, I don't run my company for the benefit of my employees, I take them on so that I can take on more customers and my company makes more money, not through the niceness of my heart. It is however important to treat those employees well, pay them fairly so you hold onto them
So on one hand you say you don't give a
about your staff and then you say it is important too hold on to them?????
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Unfortunately we are a nation of shareholders who dont hold our PLC's to task. We just sit there and roll-over asking for a nice little (being the key) yearly dividend payment. What we should be doing is going along to the AGM's and EGM's and giving the senior management a bloody hard time. For every share that we own, we have a right to reply - if we think the management is taking the preverbial, then tell them.....
Its been too long that these people have got away with this. And you know what the shocking thing is - the majority of these senior managers in many PLC's, dont even know what their shareholders want. They just go their own merry way, with open distain for the investing public who have put them where they are today.
Its depressing.
A company’s first priority should be to make a profit. Companies that make a profit will survive and grow. Companies that survive and grow will employ people. Employed people will spend their money in the shops and pay Tax to support public services.
However, a good employer should also look after its staff, otherwise it will gain a poor reputation, which may adversely affect the profit of the company (because customers might stop acquiring their products). I’ve advised many companies to sell loss making subsidiaries for next to nothing, rather than lay everyone off and strip the assets, because of what is known as “blood on the carpet reputation”. In effect, these are “selfish acts of charity” (to coin a paradox).
To get profits into perspective, the average UK company makes 8% Operating Profit. Therefore, if there are 31 days in a month, the average company doesn’t even break-even until the 29th of the month. It’s the last two “precious” days of the month which make the profit. As such, making a profit is damned hard work.
However, a good employer should also look after its staff, otherwise it will gain a poor reputation, which may adversely affect the profit of the company (because customers might stop acquiring their products). I’ve advised many companies to sell loss making subsidiaries for next to nothing, rather than lay everyone off and strip the assets, because of what is known as “blood on the carpet reputation”. In effect, these are “selfish acts of charity” (to coin a paradox).
To get profits into perspective, the average UK company makes 8% Operating Profit. Therefore, if there are 31 days in a month, the average company doesn’t even break-even until the 29th of the month. It’s the last two “precious” days of the month which make the profit. As such, making a profit is damned hard work.
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