Vietnam

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PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
I've read about it before but every time I see/read more about it, it amazes me.

The attocities committed by America were incredible. In years to come perhaps we'll all see America in a different light...

FourWheelDrift

89,634 posts

291 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
Recently seen 2 programs featuring Vietnam. A repeat of Jeremy Clarkson's Motorworld and the Globe Trekker show on travelling through it.

Both showing different aspects of Vietnam as it currently is now the French, Americans and finally Soviet's have left. Still a communist country it's looking to Taiwan and Korea for influence and how to open itself up onto the world markets. BMW cars were one of the first to open a factory in Vietnam other are following. The majority of the country is still medieval in it's lifestyle though.

As for what happened during the Vietnam war there were terrible incidents on both sides but America should not have got invloved, they only reason they did was paranoia of a World Communist takeover. They lost, Communism did not run rampant through south East Asia, they were wrong, have they admitted it, nope.

SiH

1,835 posts

254 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
To be fair though Ted we haven't exactly been saints ourselves in the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, the Americans have been and continue to be pretty inexcusable with their behaviour, but at the same time we were the first country to have concentration camps and also the first country to use biological and chemical warfare.

MilnerR

8,273 posts

265 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
After WW2 america saw itself as the worlds guardian and as such can do no wrong as long as the attrocities committed are in the name of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"


FWD, americas foreign policy has been illegal for the past 50 years, imagine if any other country had attacked as many other soveriegn nations? The U.N would have imposed sanctions and sent some blokes in white landcruisers round to have a look at their extensive WMD programmes!

>> Edited by MilnerR on Sunday 5th December 14:21

SiH

1,835 posts

254 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
MilnerR said:

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"

PetrolTed by the looks of things

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
SiH said:
To be fair though Ted we haven't exactly been saints ourselves in the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, the Americans have been and continue to be pretty inexcusable with their behaviour, but at the same time we were the first country to have concentration camps and also the first country to use biological and chemical warfare.


True. Is it naive to think we've moved on?

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
Actually, in this program they talked of a bomb that the Americans dropped that spewed out small dart like things when it exploded. The synthetic darts embedded themselves in the body and couldn't be detected by xrays. Dozens of them would impale themselves leading to a slow agonizing death.

Then, in passing at the end of the piece, the commentator said that the weapons once 'proven' in Vietnam had be used in other wars... including the Falklands!

vixpy1

42,676 posts

271 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
In war, anybody is capable of anything.

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
In the heat of the moment, yes. But it takes forethought to buy/use weapons like that.

cotty

40,298 posts

291 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
PetrolTed said:
In the heat of the moment, yes. But it takes forethought to buy/use weapons like that.


I think for that reason they no longer use flame throwers but im sot sure

john75

5,303 posts

254 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
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My friend comes from Vietnam and his wife made me this great Noddle Soup yesterday has nothiong to do with the tread but I throught i would share.

willmcc

758 posts

246 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
The undeclared purpose of many weapons is to maim not kill, many more resources are used to carry away,treat and replace wounded, than to simply replace a dead man.
There is also the effect on morale of wounded who are slowly dying, can be worse than the same number of dead.
Anything that hindered diagnosis therefore would be seen as advantageous, many mines work this way I'm afraid.

Broccers

3,236 posts

260 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
The ironic thing for me is that the Yanks dropped shed loads of Agent Orange on their enemy in this conflict yet we are warned of that nasty Chemical Ali in Iraq.

You'd laugh if it wasnt so tragic.

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
6lb of pesticide for every man woman and child

VTEC_DOHC

2,434 posts

252 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
Thing that bothers me is: why is it ok for the U.S to have weapons of mass destruction and not Iraq?

By the same token, I have a weapon of ass destruction.

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
I guezs the argument is that they will be used responsibly. A flawed argument probably.

SiH

1,835 posts

254 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
On the subject of the Falklands, if you ask me the French have a lot to answer for. On one hand they were criticising the Argentinians for invading and on the other they were selling them the very same Exocet missiles that were fired at the Sir Galahad.
IIRC we ended up having quite a few MI5/MI6 agents out buying up all the stocks of Exocets so the Argies couldn't get their hands on them.

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
They were all sold by middlemen though I thought?

FourWheelDrift

89,634 posts

291 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
SiH said:
IIRC we ended up having quite a few MI5/MI6 agents out buying up all the stocks of Exocets so the Argies couldn't get their hands on them.



Which wasn't a problem for us, as although we didn't have aircraft fitted to fire them we did have Exocet launcher systems on Royal Navy ships.

But back on topic, nasty business Vietnam. But a very good place to visit today.

>> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Sunday 5th December 15:52

phumy

5,743 posts

244 months

Sunday 5th December 2004
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Recently seen 2 programs featuring Vietnam. A repeat of Jeremy Clarkson's Motorworld and the Globe Trekker show on travelling through it.

Both showing different aspects of Vietnam as it currently is now the French, Americans and finally Soviet's have left. Still a communist country it's looking to Taiwan and Korea for influence and how to open itself up onto the world markets. BMW cars were one of the first to open a factory in Vietnam other are following. The majority of the country is still medieval in it's lifestyle though.

As for what happened during the Vietnam war there were terrible incidents on both sides but America should not have got invloved, they only reason they did was paranoia of a World Communist takeover. They lost, Communism did not run rampant through south East Asia, they were wrong, have they admitted it, nope.


I have worked for the last two and a half years, in Vietnam and still do, and i am really impressed with the people here, i can see why and how they kicked ass in 1975. They are so hard working, industrious and commited to a cause. They also know how to live on a pittance and still work hard and not grumble.

Ford, BMW and Mercedes have cars built out here as do Toyota and Hyundai. There is a massive influx of money coming in from other Asian countries mainly Japan, but also France, Australia and dare i say it USA are ploughing $Millions into it. Their currency is pegged to the dollar and its also used as a secondary currency in the shops and bars.

If anyone ever visits Saigon a visit to the War Museum is a must, it dedicated to all who lost their lives during the French/American invasion, and i really must say what amoving experience it is too, to actually see the prospects of war from "the other side" is something else. There are many detailed photos and stories of attrocities that occured during the war, from the Vietnamese point of view.
I was 20 when the Americans pulled out of here so i was subjected to all the news bulletins from the West, just like everyone else, including all the propaganda that goes with any war. I have visited this museum on numerous occasion and have seen many American visitors visibly shocked or in disbelief that their boys actually done just what the photgraphs were showing (Iraq comes to mind). I feel very honoured to now have seen both sides of the story.

On a lighter note, Saigon is an awesome place to go for a night out

The major cities such as Saigon and Ha Noi are really up and coming very fast but out in the rural areas life is very behind the Western World, i dont think it will be long before they catch up as all the major countries start to plough the millions back into it.