Sharia Law for UK Muslims?
Discussion
www.guardian.co.uk/islam/story/0,15568,1362591,00.html
British Muslims want Islamic law and prayers at work
Muslims in Britain want greater recognition of their faith with the introduction of Islamic law for civil cases and time off for prayers during the working day, but are equally committed to greater participation in British life.
A special Guardian/ICM poll based on a survey of 500 British Muslims found that a clear majority want Islamic law introduced into this country in civil cases relating to their own community. Some 61% wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".
Many civil cases in this country deal with family disputes such as divorce, custody and inheritance.
The poll also found a high level of religious observance with just over half saying they pray five times a day, every day - although women are shown to be more devout than men. The poll reveals that 88% want to see schools and workplaces in Britain accommodating Muslim prayer times as part of their normal working day.
Alongside these signs of a desire for more recognition of their religion, however, the poll suggests that the Muslim community is perhaps more integrated than many might imagine, with 62% saying they number "a lot or quite a few" non-Muslim people among their closest friends and 35% saying they would consider marrying someone who was not a Muslim.
There is also a strong appetite within the Muslim community to become a closer part of British life, with 40% saying they need to do more to integrate into mainstream British culture.
The ICM poll was commissioned as part of a groundbreaking Guardian exercise to gauge the mood of Britain's younger Muslim generation. In addition to the poll, 103 young Muslims were brought together to discuss the most important issues facing their future, from identity and integration to the war on terror.
The Guardian/ICM poll confirms that political support for Labour has halved since the 2001 general election and the Liberal Democrats have emerged as the leading political party within the Muslim community.
The role of Britain in the Iraq war and Tony Blair's strong support for the war on terror which is widely seen by the Muslim community to be an attack on Islam, has undoubtedly played a part in eroding Labour's support among British Muslims. In the 2001 general election it is believed that 75% of those who voted backed Labour.
The voting intention figures in this poll show that support in the Muslim community for the government is slipping away fast. In March, ICM recorded Labour support at 38% and it has now fallen a further six points to 32% of Muslim voters.
This is nine points behind the Liberal Democrats who now enjoy the support of 41% of Muslim voters. Conservative support has also fallen in the last six months from 25% to 16%.
Other parties enjoy the support of 10% of British Muslim voters with 4% going to the Greens and 4% to George Galloway's Respect party.
The problem for the Liberal Democrats is that the poll shows turnout among the Muslim community is likely to be far lower than the general electorate with only 47% saying they "always or nearly always vote" compared with 68% of all voters.
ICM interviewed a random sample of 500 Muslim people by telephone between November 15-21 2004. The data has not been weighted because there is no authoritative source of demographic information on the Muslim population. ICM abides by the rules of the British Polling Council.
I'm intrigued by this suggestion, but see it as unworkable - Surely if we allow one group of people to be governed by the laws they want to be governed by then surely all must be free to choose which laws they want to be governed by?
Phil
British Muslims want Islamic law and prayers at work
Muslims in Britain want greater recognition of their faith with the introduction of Islamic law for civil cases and time off for prayers during the working day, but are equally committed to greater participation in British life.
A special Guardian/ICM poll based on a survey of 500 British Muslims found that a clear majority want Islamic law introduced into this country in civil cases relating to their own community. Some 61% wanted Islamic courts - operating on sharia principles - "so long as the penalties did not contravene British law".
Many civil cases in this country deal with family disputes such as divorce, custody and inheritance.
The poll also found a high level of religious observance with just over half saying they pray five times a day, every day - although women are shown to be more devout than men. The poll reveals that 88% want to see schools and workplaces in Britain accommodating Muslim prayer times as part of their normal working day.
Alongside these signs of a desire for more recognition of their religion, however, the poll suggests that the Muslim community is perhaps more integrated than many might imagine, with 62% saying they number "a lot or quite a few" non-Muslim people among their closest friends and 35% saying they would consider marrying someone who was not a Muslim.
There is also a strong appetite within the Muslim community to become a closer part of British life, with 40% saying they need to do more to integrate into mainstream British culture.
The ICM poll was commissioned as part of a groundbreaking Guardian exercise to gauge the mood of Britain's younger Muslim generation. In addition to the poll, 103 young Muslims were brought together to discuss the most important issues facing their future, from identity and integration to the war on terror.
The Guardian/ICM poll confirms that political support for Labour has halved since the 2001 general election and the Liberal Democrats have emerged as the leading political party within the Muslim community.
The role of Britain in the Iraq war and Tony Blair's strong support for the war on terror which is widely seen by the Muslim community to be an attack on Islam, has undoubtedly played a part in eroding Labour's support among British Muslims. In the 2001 general election it is believed that 75% of those who voted backed Labour.
The voting intention figures in this poll show that support in the Muslim community for the government is slipping away fast. In March, ICM recorded Labour support at 38% and it has now fallen a further six points to 32% of Muslim voters.
This is nine points behind the Liberal Democrats who now enjoy the support of 41% of Muslim voters. Conservative support has also fallen in the last six months from 25% to 16%.
Other parties enjoy the support of 10% of British Muslim voters with 4% going to the Greens and 4% to George Galloway's Respect party.
The problem for the Liberal Democrats is that the poll shows turnout among the Muslim community is likely to be far lower than the general electorate with only 47% saying they "always or nearly always vote" compared with 68% of all voters.
ICM interviewed a random sample of 500 Muslim people by telephone between November 15-21 2004. The data has not been weighted because there is no authoritative source of demographic information on the Muslim population. ICM abides by the rules of the British Polling Council.
I'm intrigued by this suggestion, but see it as unworkable - Surely if we allow one group of people to be governed by the laws they want to be governed by then surely all must be free to choose which laws they want to be governed by?
Phil
off. 
Would Muslim countries provide the same service for immigrants of other religions? Of course they wouldn't, and neither should we expect them to. We respect their culture whilst we cherish our own - and vice versa.
If I choose to emigrate somewhere, I would expect to have to adapt to their culture - not force them to make my new home an extension of my former country.
It gets barmier and barmier...
If I choose to emigrate somewhere, I would expect to have to adapt to their culture - not force them to make my new home an extension of my former country.
It gets barmier and barmier...
silly silly silly. More ridiculous stories.
There is nothing at present stopping any person(s) agreeing to have a civil issue settled by a specific form of court or system of law.
Within the jewish/muslim/etc etc communities many people do already take their civil disputes to their own 'courts' and agree to be bound by their findings.
There is nothing at present stopping any person(s) agreeing to have a civil issue settled by a specific form of court or system of law.
Within the jewish/muslim/etc etc communities many people do already take their civil disputes to their own 'courts' and agree to be bound by their findings.
jacobyte said:
Would Muslim countries provide the same service for immigrants of other religions?
Nope the Saudi's, despite the fact we were protecting them from Iraq during the first Gulf War did not allow Christian services for our dead soldiers.
This country's official religion is Church of England Christian (although I'm not religeous at all).
So.....NO.
Edited because I spelt 'religion' wrongly, well I don't believe in it so why should I spelt it right.
>> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 30th November 15:32
One of the passages of the Qur’an most often quoted by Muslims wishing to impress their moderation upon Christians is in Sura 109:6 (Disbelievers): There is no compulsion in religion. There is another passage in Sura 10:100 (Jonah): You will find the nearest in affection to those who believe are those who say, ‘We are Christians’. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
Now most of the Arab countries show a fair tolerance to other religions, even Iraq before Bush/Blair put an end to that.
Saudi Arabia is the one side letting it down, even though in years gone by it had many churches and monastries and is a contrast to Prophet Muhammad himself, who was pleased to associate himself with both the Christian and Jewish presence in the Arabian Peninsula as he travelled the trade routes.
The house of Saudi is expected by all Muslims, and especially Shi’a Muslims as represented by Iran, to keep Saudi Arabia undefiled by non-Muslim influences.
Thus Christianity is not recognised in Saudi Arabia.
Piccy
Now most of the Arab countries show a fair tolerance to other religions, even Iraq before Bush/Blair put an end to that.
Saudi Arabia is the one side letting it down, even though in years gone by it had many churches and monastries and is a contrast to Prophet Muhammad himself, who was pleased to associate himself with both the Christian and Jewish presence in the Arabian Peninsula as he travelled the trade routes.
The house of Saudi is expected by all Muslims, and especially Shi’a Muslims as represented by Iran, to keep Saudi Arabia undefiled by non-Muslim influences.
Thus Christianity is not recognised in Saudi Arabia.
Piccy
Really - here are a few headlines:
Saudi Arabia Blocks Religious Websites
A Filipino Christian employed for 14 years as an engineer in Saudi Arabia has been detained by police authorities since December 1 for suspected Christian activities.
Arrested for spreading Christianity in - SAUDI ARABIA
10 Months in Jail, 300 lashes. Hung upside down and kicked in ribs.
There was no Saudi reply to Bishops’ information request on O’Connor case NEW DELHI: A leading Christian organisation Wednesday appealed to Saudi Arabia to show mercy to an Indian Christian convicted of "spreading Christianity" in the Islamic kingdom.
Brian O'Connor of Karnataka was arrested in Saudi Arabia in March on charges of spreading Christianity.
He was sentenced to 10 months in prison and 300 lashes, the All India Catholic Union (AICU) said.
Christians arrested and persecuted in Saudi Arabia
Saudi law requires the nation's 15 million citizens to remain Muslims. Anyone who abandons Islam faces the death penalty.
I don't think that shows Christianity being tolerated.
Piccy
>> Edited by piccy mate on Tuesday 30th November 16:01
Saudi Arabia Blocks Religious Websites
A Filipino Christian employed for 14 years as an engineer in Saudi Arabia has been detained by police authorities since December 1 for suspected Christian activities.
Arrested for spreading Christianity in - SAUDI ARABIA
10 Months in Jail, 300 lashes. Hung upside down and kicked in ribs.
There was no Saudi reply to Bishops’ information request on O’Connor case NEW DELHI: A leading Christian organisation Wednesday appealed to Saudi Arabia to show mercy to an Indian Christian convicted of "spreading Christianity" in the Islamic kingdom.
Brian O'Connor of Karnataka was arrested in Saudi Arabia in March on charges of spreading Christianity.
He was sentenced to 10 months in prison and 300 lashes, the All India Catholic Union (AICU) said.
Christians arrested and persecuted in Saudi Arabia
Saudi law requires the nation's 15 million citizens to remain Muslims. Anyone who abandons Islam faces the death penalty.
I don't think that shows Christianity being tolerated.
Piccy
yertis said:
piccy mate said:
Thus Christianity is not recognised in Saudi Arabia.
Incorrect. Christianity is recognised (well, tolerated at least) - it's jews they have a big problem with.
>> Edited by piccy mate on Tuesday 30th November 16:01
More sensationalism. Increadibly small sample group (500) of which more than half prey 5 times a day?? where were they? Standing outside a mosque in Bradford/Luton?
However, one point - they mention sharia laws for Divorce, custody etc. I have found that the muslim/pakistani 'Nikanama' (marriage certificate) actually quite a very good idea. Part of the certificate is a sort of pre-nuptual agreement - that the Imam asks if both parties agree to before the certificate is signed by all parties. It is a little out of date in structure, and I think misused as most people fill in the minimum figure payable (enough to cover cost of grain for 2 months IIRC) to the wife in the case of divorce - and not a fair representation of what should be payable. I am not sure if it also covers terms of divorce and custody though. I think that would go down well in the west if it became part of the culture and marriage certificate. Certain to reduce arguments, bitterness during a break-up - reduced cost of CSA and family court - with more of the family money going to the wife and kids, not the Lawyers and Government.
However, one point - they mention sharia laws for Divorce, custody etc. I have found that the muslim/pakistani 'Nikanama' (marriage certificate) actually quite a very good idea. Part of the certificate is a sort of pre-nuptual agreement - that the Imam asks if both parties agree to before the certificate is signed by all parties. It is a little out of date in structure, and I think misused as most people fill in the minimum figure payable (enough to cover cost of grain for 2 months IIRC) to the wife in the case of divorce - and not a fair representation of what should be payable. I am not sure if it also covers terms of divorce and custody though. I think that would go down well in the west if it became part of the culture and marriage certificate. Certain to reduce arguments, bitterness during a break-up - reduced cost of CSA and family court - with more of the family money going to the wife and kids, not the Lawyers and Government.
jazzybee said:
I have found that the muslim/pakistani 'Nikanama' (marriage certificate) actually quite a very good idea.
From the sounds of it mosts men would agree with you but I don't think the women would be too happy about it seeing as at present they expect, as usually get, the shirt of their blokes back too.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff