Discussion
los angeles said:
Domestic evil fascinates me, not just because it furnishes plot ideas, but because it's all our stories, the terrible temptations we give in to in order to fulfil our fantasies.
Well, personally, i don't fantasize about killing my wife! this is for two reasons:
1) I don't have a wife... (yes ladies, there is still time to snap me up!! I'll throw in a toaster if bought before Christmas!!!)
2)I'm not a psychopath!!!
>> Edited by vixpy1 on Friday 5th November 23:54
los angeles said:
Has anyone been following the Californian case of Scott Peterson, a father accused of murdering his pregnant wife and dumping her body in a bay near San Francisco, a place he went "fishing" infrequently? It has been the big news event next to Bush's travels in Arabia.
After a state-wide search, with massive media coverage in which he nipped down to the Mexican border, grew a beard and dyed his hair, her body and that of her unborn baby were washed up on the shore four months later and he was arrested. He claims she was murdered by someone else and her body put in the water to lay the blame on him. In other words, he claims he was framed, or at least his lawyer does, the same one who handled the defence for Winona Ryder, the scourge of Sax Fifth Avenue.
The prosecution argues forceably that it's utterly improbable an opportunistic killer would trouble himself to go kill Laci Peterson and then trundle her body miles up to the bay to stick the murder on Scott.
During the trial we learned our nice family man had had a few affairs, and one special blonde lady near San Francisco who was fooled into thinking he was an international businessman. He did it all by celphone, except the sex part of the relationship.
I mention this gruesome tale that has transfixed Americans because the jury are out now to consider their verdict. The judge has "locked them in" until they make it.
Domestic evil fascinates me, not just because it furnishes plot ideas, but because it's all our stories, the terrible temptations we give in to in order to fulfil our fantasies.
fantasies aside LA, if you make a filum call me I lost the other thread
I understand your reply. My sense is that the seediness, drabness and ordinariness is the reality. But to achieve a story then the mundane becomes camouflaged by the sensationalism of the published story (a caricature of the components). The story is the vehicle to release our emotions and takes us all beyond that which caused the effect in the first place. But it serves the purpose as we do seem to relish the commencement from ordinary to extraordinary. Story telling is an essential part of all cultures.
los angeles said:
Story telling is an essential part of all cultures.
I couldn't agree more. I use the dramatic form of expression to tell my stories, and drama means a heightened reality, which is why now and then we are criticised for appearing to sensationalise things, or move too far from the actual true events.
would you agree then that the vehicle, sometimes becomes more important than the cargo?
I look at films that use a mondao to carry a message, trainspotting, letter to Breschnev (sp pished) compared to the utter banality of a saleen to carry 0.000, anything with steven segal
los angeles said:
Morning, everyone. Been doing a bit of sleuthing to find out who the jury are on the case. Imagine it, ten upright and true folk judging whether you live or die, or rot in prison. Being the States I have to use certain terminology to describe them. They are:
1. 40 somthing white man. High school coach.
2. 50 something white man. Unemployed.
3. 30 something female Hispanic. Social worker.
4. Middle-aged former police office, now project manager.
5. 40 something white man with medical and law degree. Jury foreman.
6. Young male firefighter and paramedic.
7. 60 something Asian woman. Postal worker.
8. 50 something white man. Teamster - works graveyard shift on trucks.
9. 30 something white woman whose fiancee was convicted of murder.
10. 40 something white woman. Adoption worker who works on child abuse cases.
And on the shoulders of those honest, law-abiding citizens does Scott Peterson's fate rest.
Hmm good stuff Los Angeles... This is one that had missed me, but then I've had my head under the parapit for a few weeks now.
It all raises a very interesting point and to me quite a worrying issue - trial by a jury of your peers...
With the ever increasing ethnic integration programs there seems a high probabillity that that the jusry is not going to be a 'representation of your peers'.
Am I correct in thinking that in America there is an opportunity for the prosecution and defense to have people removed from the jury if they feel the juree is not suitable?
I remember listening to an old spoken word album by Jello Biaffra re the Dead Kennedy's Frankenchrist album in which they spent weeks just popping what they considered unsuitable jurees off the bench.
Aside, LA, I completely concur with your fascination of such matters - in my mind, to not openly face the reality of the world we live in and all its ills is a far more serious form of delusion, one for which the afflicted should seek immediate assistence - I'd recommend three bottles of 500mg paracetamol tablets just before bed, a long and lingereing death - much like the one I see unfolding before me everday.
best Ex
P.S. For anyone interested the album was called No More Cocoons www.alternativetentacles.com/product.php?product=18
Strangely enough we played it just last week in the run up to the American election, a reminder to ourselves exactly what was at stake there. Coupled with having just read Larry Flint's book 'Sex Lies and Politics' it's all left me really wondering what hope there is for this planet.
los angeles said:
Strangely enough we played it just last week in the run up to the American election, a reminder to ourselves exactly what was at stake there. Coupled with having just read Larry Flint's book 'Sex Lies and Politics' it's all left me really wondering what hope there is for this planet.
Hope lies in people like yourself staying strong and leading weaker or uncertain folk in word and example.
I'll take that as a blessing, but right now I have to go mow the lawns - we're moving house in two weeks time and sadly all the logistics are leaving me little time for intellectual ramblings through the halls of PH.
Needless to say once we get settled over the other side then I'll return to form.
Anyway - pour yourself a decent dram of a good single and we'll meet again....
best
Ex
There's plenty of hope; there are billions of perspectives and lives. Hope is not damaged by US democracy; hope is enlivened. By closing our minds we see the short term politics as the vision; but look beyond and look to the past as to what humans have achieved and without being cynical, things are placed into a more historical perspective.
woolfie said:
US democracy
Sure you don't mean mean US stupidity?
How on earth did this man get in for another term?
Bush has systematically destroyed US credibillity across the world. And you would say there is hope...
Maybe I missed something along the way... I'm not sure any more.
besr
Ex
los angeles said:
If a guy kills out of passion and blind fury you'd think he'd call the cops immediately and confess. Or would you?
Nope.
Now supposing I had blind a fury and bumped off Someone. What would I do? Confess and spend years in jail? Or think of a cunning plan to dispose of the body and possibly get away with it?
I've no plans to bump off mrs C by the way. She hasn't managed to make me want to bump her off yet and that's after 17 years.
Missing the point; US democracy to me says its a short term problem either if you are a democrat or if you are a republican upset with Bush. See beyond the current incumbent and try and take an historical view. The US has decided to ignore the existing worlwide alliances, and is going it alone. To do otherwise at this time, doesnt seem possible. Its flexing its muscles; whether Bush is right or someone else is right is neither here nor there; there isnt a strong europe - whilst it thinks through for the next 10 years as to how best to enlarge, china is increasing its "might", the russian federation is inward looking at the moment.History is moving and the US would rather it pushed it along.
What do i know or any of us know..must be the squillion bottles of wine I'e just drunk.
ramble ramble
What do i know or any of us know..must be the squillion bottles of wine I'e just drunk.
ramble ramble
I'm sure Garagos will appeal. In fact the judge has been a complete idiot (IMHO) during the case and given him too many open shots to appeal...
FWIW, I think he's guilty. FWIW, I think the decision will be reversed and a retrial ordered on appeal due to the fact that the judge began removing/replacing jurors when the jury looked like it was deadlocked...
ErnestM
FWIW, I think he's guilty. FWIW, I think the decision will be reversed and a retrial ordered on appeal due to the fact that the judge began removing/replacing jurors when the jury looked like it was deadlocked...
ErnestM
Well, Peterson certainly didn't behave like someone who's innocent, what with the change in appearance, secretive phone calls, etc. Laci had life insurance, and for someone of Peterson's apparent base and self-gratifying tendencies, it certainly would be motive for murder. Not everyone who cheats on a partner is necessarily a psychopath, but when the means is elaborate and prolonged, to the point of there being nearly a double life, you have to question if this person has more than the ordinary share of selfishness and devious tendencies. The evidence is of course circumstantial, as most evidence is, but who else would want her killed? A mugging or burglary gone wrong usually lacks the complexity of a body obviously hidden. It's hard to ignore those character deficiencies, especially as they seem to support the motive and modus operandi of the murder, but unfortunately difficult to convict on the basis of character alone.
I don't doubt there will be an appeal, but hopefully the general disgust over Peterson's behavior will prevent the verdict from being overturned.
I don't doubt there will be an appeal, but hopefully the general disgust over Peterson's behavior will prevent the verdict from being overturned.
los angeles said:
I'm sure you're right, Ernest, Garagos will appeal. He hasn't got an alternative. (Although he will make his million from a book sale of the trial.) But I can't see the guilty decision getting reversed now that the press are free to delve into and publish all the negative background details of Peterson.
If Garagos gets to the two released jurors (the ones that where released after deliberation) he can make the case that the judge improperly interfered with the jury process to get the outcome that he (the judge) wanted thus impeding his client's right of trial by an impartial jury of his peers. It's one thing for the defense and prosecution to dismiss jurors but for a judge to do it, he had better have a really good reason or the verdict will be set aside and a new trial ordered.
One of the CHIEF reasons for an apeal is a mistake by the lower court judge in either charging or managing the jury. It's just curious how the jury was deadlocked and then the day after he replaces a juror, they reach a unanimous decision.
Like I said above. I think he is guilty. I don't, however, think the prosecution proved it and I also believe that the judge made some highly critical technical legal errors. Of course my knowledge of judicial procedures is strictly Alabama, Georgia and Florida - but most States have similar rules for judges.
All IMH (non lawyer) O
ErnestM
los angeles said:
Hey, Seafarer! I wrote a whole essay on the "Method" on that other thread and you never came back? But nice to hear from you.
I just went and read it! Great essay. It does explain a lot, especially regarding the "right" actors for a part. I think different people in different parts would change the whole part. I understand what you mean about the method being more than pretending. It's more like trying to draw on your own real empathy in a situation, as if it were real to you. But then, different actors in the same scenario would in some respects draw on their personal experiences to get those emotions, and their responses--and the rest of the character-- I assume would end up being highly individual from one actor to the next. Hence different actors in the same part would produce variation the character. I haven't watched a lot of Shakespeare plays, but have had to read them. So much of it is dependent on the words that there would seem to be less room in it for any individual treatment without it changing the whole story. And as a classic studied in a certain context, it doesn't really lend itself to variation while still being done "right", or true to the author's intent. Other screen plays or movies don't seem so accomodating to the playwrights intentions as they are done as a whole work (film/score/dialog) rather than starting out as a finished writing then making the visual work go with it. It opens up a lot of debate for well established literature as to whether or not the screenplay or actor really conveys the character true to the literature. Some friends of mine had issues with whether or not Aragorn and Elrond were the same characters on film as they were in the book. It seemed like they were trying to modernize the character to have internal conflict about identity (especially in the case of Aragorn) whereas in the book it seemed that he always knew who he was/what he needed to do and was waiting for the time to come.
talk to you later.
Amy
los angeles said:
Monday 13th December, 2004. The trial ends
Scott Peterson was found guilty. To recap: The body of his wife and unborn child were found washed up in a bay, the exact same place he had "gone fishing" on the very day she went missing. Peterson never took the stand to argue his innocence, or remorse.
After reaching their verdict the jury were sent away a second time, (sequestered) the normal secondary process under US law, to deliberate on a sentence of "death" or "life without parole." Today, after a twelve hour deliberation the six men and six women good and true returned a unanimous verdict of ...
Death.
A few words of comment: the case grabbed the nation's attention not only because it involved the death of a vivacious, pretty young mother and her unborn child - a heinous, unusual crime in itself - but because the accused, her husband, is a handsome, charismatic, plausible guy who turned out to be leading a double life, one steeped in self-perpetuated fantasy. This was the fascination for me, the "domestic" evil of the thread's title.
I have a feeling we all know a man just like him.
LA
'lo LA,
You out here, or home?
The thing that "facinated" or involved people about this case -IMO- is just, exactly, that point:
los angeles said:
...but because the accused, her husband, is a handsome, charismatic, plausible guy who turned out to be leading a double life, one steeped in self-perpetuated fantasy.
That is what bothers me, the seeming disconnect with reality, social mores or personal moral standards shown by Peterson here.
I know a guy who has some very large personal short-comings, things that are a constant struggle and reminders of what can/should/could be done. The wife knows how to invoke these demons, usually without any malice, mostly as sincerely expressed love, as assistance in getting through the days.
Other times, these items are hurled in anger and rage, with the force that can only un-leashed by those who do care, deeply, about the other party but sometimes the wear and abrasion reveal a new tender spot that brings the hurt to an unexpected area.
In those times, many damaging things are said, mostly untrue, some, when examined closely enough, ring as true any words ever spoken by Man. These words hurt the worst, when spoken to the person who is most familiar with them, sees them daily in the mirror, deals with their results now and in the future.
The anger to stop having those things brought out again and again and again seems to have no limit, and the desire to stop hearing them by any means looks reasonable... for a moment.
Just a moment.
Passing so quickly as to seem to not even be there at all.
The knowledge that each person has responsabilities to others, that how one lives has an effect on our surroundings and the people we meet and interact with, shows itself to be the human factor that seems to be the divison between mere Animals, and what are Men.
And now, we in the US and California are to be subjected to another display of lack of personal responsibility COMBINED WITH the belief that large amounts of money cure all things:
"The People of California v. Michael Jackson"
Dave
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