threat to classics
Discussion
possably ?
have a read and worry.
TBH i thought it would have been on here a few days ago ?
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/
have a read and worry.
TBH i thought it would have been on here a few days ago ?
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/
So what ? no one cares or no one understands the inplications of all this ???
come on, call yourselves classic car enthusiasts your about to loose a LOT of rights if this goes through! do something about it and i dont meen the usuall whining like a b
h afterwards that this site is sooooo good at 
get onto your MP, write a letter? do somefookingthing !
come on, call yourselves classic car enthusiasts your about to loose a LOT of rights if this goes through! do something about it and i dont meen the usuall whining like a b
h afterwards that this site is sooooo good at get onto your MP, write a letter? do somefookingthing !
NHK244V said:
because of what the goverment are proposing, classic not 100% as they left the factory will loose thier classic status, that's not a worry ?
Only to the government.... Classics will always be classics to owners, the general public and clubs alike (and i daresay insurance companies)Not much will change. I doubt it will go through anyway, far too much money comes from classic cars, the government wouldnt be stupid enough.
NHK244V said:
Breadvan73 said:
A verbose document produced by some non governmental organisation is supposed to worry us, er...why?
because of what the goverment are proposing, classic not 1005 as they left the factory will loose thier classic status, that's not a worry ?FIVA have tried to create a definition of what would classify a vehicle as being a true historic classic. They have decided that it would be one which contains no new parts and has only been repaired using original parts. A renovation using new or recreated parts would not be classed as a true historic vehicle. They have produced a document containing this information.
That is the current state of affairs everything else you have read is just supposition and guess work. So maybe now you might like to calm down a bit and have a lie down.
^^^^^^^ Exactly as Breadvan says - this doesn't actually seem to have any link to Govt, it seems to be a European car club setting up some sort of proposed criteria for historic vehicle status that they can then provide certification for. Possibly at a fee.
Whilst I don't think it's anything to worry about, it may be worth keeping an eye on and checking the sort of influence this type of group has on EC politicians.
Whilst I don't think it's anything to worry about, it may be worth keeping an eye on and checking the sort of influence this type of group has on EC politicians.
I understand that this sort of thing is having a negative impact in Germany, where 'historic' plates mean lower tax and insurance rates for your car, and tuning anything can void various tax brackets and TUV approvals, and as such threatens to put many tuners and modifiers out of business.
The EU has made similarly restrictive suggestions to the UK on the quiet, to which the response has always been 'over our dead bodies'.
However, it is clear that the EU has way, way too much power for a body so unaccountable. The parts we elect only debate the proposals, they don't originate them, so as a result much of the EU's policy comes from bureaucrats who have called in 'experts' who could have all manner of commercial interests at heart.
I'm convinced one of the main reasons for the EU's constant tweaking of car safety laws is to provide a constant stream of work and revenue for EU-based companies like Bosch and Valeo. Otherwise, just think how incredibly cheap it'd be possible to build a truly 'basic' car these days, a kind of 500/Mini/2CV sort-of thing? About half what you pay for the most apparently 'basic' European car, I'd imagine.
Don't believe me? Just look at how cheap you can get a basic motorbike for these days. There's not that much more engineering that goes into a car, so why is it that in terms of what the EU allows, you can get a brand new 'bike with warranty etc for £700, but the cheapest car is a minimum of £6k? Elsewhere in the world you can get new cars for a lot less than that, but for some reason they won't let us buy them here.
I thought the byword of living in a modern liberal democracy was 'choice', and yet due to forced, bureaucratic 'progress', I feel I have less and less choice every year.
The EU has made similarly restrictive suggestions to the UK on the quiet, to which the response has always been 'over our dead bodies'.
However, it is clear that the EU has way, way too much power for a body so unaccountable. The parts we elect only debate the proposals, they don't originate them, so as a result much of the EU's policy comes from bureaucrats who have called in 'experts' who could have all manner of commercial interests at heart.
I'm convinced one of the main reasons for the EU's constant tweaking of car safety laws is to provide a constant stream of work and revenue for EU-based companies like Bosch and Valeo. Otherwise, just think how incredibly cheap it'd be possible to build a truly 'basic' car these days, a kind of 500/Mini/2CV sort-of thing? About half what you pay for the most apparently 'basic' European car, I'd imagine.
Don't believe me? Just look at how cheap you can get a basic motorbike for these days. There's not that much more engineering that goes into a car, so why is it that in terms of what the EU allows, you can get a brand new 'bike with warranty etc for £700, but the cheapest car is a minimum of £6k? Elsewhere in the world you can get new cars for a lot less than that, but for some reason they won't let us buy them here.
I thought the byword of living in a modern liberal democracy was 'choice', and yet due to forced, bureaucratic 'progress', I feel I have less and less choice every year.
Reply to NHK244V and Twincam 16. You are so right to raise guestions about this problem with older cars and the future of our hobby, there are far too many people burying their head in the sand,"No need to worry" they say,without any real knowledge on the subject.If you had actually lived and worked in the EU ,you would realize just how dangerous the FIDA atitude can be to the British classic car following, they have virtually no understanding of our enthusiatic/entrepreneurial methods.There are totally different backgrounds which the continentals cannot appreciate.People have belittled the FIDA as if they were of no consiqense,BEWARE the bureocrats in Brussels have absolutly no ability or knowledge in this area, so they turn too so called experts,often self elected,hense the emergence of guestionable organizations.for more information check out:-FBHVC Blog Archive.
Up until Jan 2011 (or when traitor G BROWN signed the Lisbon treaty)the EU found it difficult to impose a lot of their legislation on Britain however since Jan it has been arriving think and fast, much is unseen having arrived as an EU Directive number-xxxx/re statuary instrument, which is passed through without debate in parliament,rubber stamped and he-ho, your stuck with it!!. You would be amazed at the mount of detrimental EU Directives that have arrived just recently,while igorance of the law is no plea ,no one is about to educate the general pubic,we only get to know when the fine/fixed-penalty arrives.Many of the attacks on motorists are emminating from the EU under the guise of 27 country harmonization of systems/laws etc(one law fits all-which it does not). A reason to write to your MP and request a referendum.
Well i see we've sorted out the shortsighted head in the sanders, trust me when this comes into force i will be back on here and bring this very thread up quoting the "sanders" and replying with a big HA.
Every single change in law starts off like this and ends up with somone getting shafted, if it wasn't for bodys like ACE the IVA/BIVA would have been a whole lot worse but they got in early and alterd the direction to a more acceptable outcome (ok not perfect but a dam sight more acceptable than first intended), if the thread is so boring why keep on posting ? allways amazes me how people have so much time to waist replying to boring threads just to make themselve look clever? wish i had all that time, all i have time for is making myself look stupid
Every single change in law starts off like this and ends up with somone getting shafted, if it wasn't for bodys like ACE the IVA/BIVA would have been a whole lot worse but they got in early and alterd the direction to a more acceptable outcome (ok not perfect but a dam sight more acceptable than first intended), if the thread is so boring why keep on posting ? allways amazes me how people have so much time to waist replying to boring threads just to make themselve look clever? wish i had all that time, all i have time for is making myself look stupid
Whilst this is just a proposal and a (fairly) long way from being UK law, it is worth trying to get our own views heard on this. Apparently there is a questionnaire on the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs website designed to help this. Note the consultation (http://fbhvc.co.uk/2011-survey/) will start in mid-may and closes at the end of July.
C
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Edited by Lotus 50 on Sunday 1st May 17:45
Every single change in law starts with some Belgian car club publishing some wordy blether? I have been working in the law for 25 years, and had missed that bit up until now.
Seriously, what exactly are you worried about? At present, the law has no definition of a "classic car". Car of certain ages obtain some legal concessions in relation to, for example, tax, seat belts and so forth, but the law cares only about the age of a car in those limited contexts, and doesn't care about its "classic" status, which is something entirely subjective. You have posted a link to a document produced by some anoraks. There is no suggestion that any Government body is remotely interested in defining what a classic car is. What practical difference would such a definition make, anyway?
Seriously, what exactly are you worried about? At present, the law has no definition of a "classic car". Car of certain ages obtain some legal concessions in relation to, for example, tax, seat belts and so forth, but the law cares only about the age of a car in those limited contexts, and doesn't care about its "classic" status, which is something entirely subjective. You have posted a link to a document produced by some anoraks. There is no suggestion that any Government body is remotely interested in defining what a classic car is. What practical difference would such a definition make, anyway?
Edited by Breadvan73 on Sunday 1st May 21:27
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