A classic 'what car' - find me my ideal!
Discussion
Hi all.
I am perpetually trapped in an endless cycle of perusing classic car magazines, trawling through statistics and test driving things and not finding a classic that I can make serious plans to buy. I've had a few classics now but they tend to slip through my fingers, either because after driving them for a few months I stumble across some overwhelming design flaw that compromises ownership almost completely (propensity for terminal rust, comedy rear seats, stupidly-sized boot, headache-inducing propshaft vibration etc).
Now, I thought I knew my classics fairly well, but I really do draw a blank on this one. I wondered if the PH classic cohort could make any suggestions that I might have overlooked.
I am after something that is...
-Preferably British (though I will also settle for something that was engineered by a British motorsport outfit - I just feel that the best cars for our roads were fettled by us in the first place)
-Eligible for classic insurance (broadly speaking, the newest example is 15 years or more older)
-Capable of seating four (doesn't matter if it's 'at a pinch', but if it is a 2+2 then the '+2' have to be human beings rather than leprechauns or garden gnomes)
-Without a reputation for rust. I don't mind having to patch up the odd corner here and there, but I can do without terminal tinworm as it'll probably have to live outside. Fibreglass body or reliable galvanisation is best.
-Reasonably quick. I'm not after attempting the land speed record at VMax, but I'm used to things like Toyota MR2s, so a 0-60 of around 7.5 seconds or less is essential or else I'll feel it's 'slow' and get bored with it.
-Capable of rocking up at a track day, rally or classic car show without people laughing at it or ignoring it.
-Reasonably reliable. I want to spend the weekends out driving it, not rebuilding the top end every time I want to start it. Fuel injection would be nice but it's not absolutely essential.
-Good-looking and 'special'. By this, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say 'no hatchbacks' (unless it's a three-door coupe or fastback saloon). There's just something a bit too 'ordinary' about a hatchback. Coupe, convertible, saloon, fastback or possibly even estate - I don't mind, but it's got to be the sort of thing that petrolheads in the know will crane their necks to get a better look when it goes by. Not in-yer-face flashy necessarily, but something that makes people go 'oh, that's a nice old thing'.
-Capable of being bought in reliable, running order for absolutely no more than £3k. I'm not after a minter, but a useable example that doesn't need any serious work doing.
-Not overwhelmingly thirsty. I'd start to draw the line at anything much over 3.5 litres.
-Rear or four wheel drive.
Over to you! Annoyingly I keep coming up with the Lotus Excel (great cars, sublime to drive, but there really isn't enough room in the back and I know that after a while this will just get annoying), and the Vauxhall Calibra 4x4 Turbo (not sure that's 'special' enough and it's not eligible for classic insurance yet). It's difficult!
I am perpetually trapped in an endless cycle of perusing classic car magazines, trawling through statistics and test driving things and not finding a classic that I can make serious plans to buy. I've had a few classics now but they tend to slip through my fingers, either because after driving them for a few months I stumble across some overwhelming design flaw that compromises ownership almost completely (propensity for terminal rust, comedy rear seats, stupidly-sized boot, headache-inducing propshaft vibration etc).
Now, I thought I knew my classics fairly well, but I really do draw a blank on this one. I wondered if the PH classic cohort could make any suggestions that I might have overlooked.
I am after something that is...
-Preferably British (though I will also settle for something that was engineered by a British motorsport outfit - I just feel that the best cars for our roads were fettled by us in the first place)
-Eligible for classic insurance (broadly speaking, the newest example is 15 years or more older)
-Capable of seating four (doesn't matter if it's 'at a pinch', but if it is a 2+2 then the '+2' have to be human beings rather than leprechauns or garden gnomes)
-Without a reputation for rust. I don't mind having to patch up the odd corner here and there, but I can do without terminal tinworm as it'll probably have to live outside. Fibreglass body or reliable galvanisation is best.
-Reasonably quick. I'm not after attempting the land speed record at VMax, but I'm used to things like Toyota MR2s, so a 0-60 of around 7.5 seconds or less is essential or else I'll feel it's 'slow' and get bored with it.
-Capable of rocking up at a track day, rally or classic car show without people laughing at it or ignoring it.
-Reasonably reliable. I want to spend the weekends out driving it, not rebuilding the top end every time I want to start it. Fuel injection would be nice but it's not absolutely essential.
-Good-looking and 'special'. By this, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say 'no hatchbacks' (unless it's a three-door coupe or fastback saloon). There's just something a bit too 'ordinary' about a hatchback. Coupe, convertible, saloon, fastback or possibly even estate - I don't mind, but it's got to be the sort of thing that petrolheads in the know will crane their necks to get a better look when it goes by. Not in-yer-face flashy necessarily, but something that makes people go 'oh, that's a nice old thing'.
-Capable of being bought in reliable, running order for absolutely no more than £3k. I'm not after a minter, but a useable example that doesn't need any serious work doing.
-Not overwhelmingly thirsty. I'd start to draw the line at anything much over 3.5 litres.
-Rear or four wheel drive.
Over to you! Annoyingly I keep coming up with the Lotus Excel (great cars, sublime to drive, but there really isn't enough room in the back and I know that after a while this will just get annoying), and the Vauxhall Calibra 4x4 Turbo (not sure that's 'special' enough and it's not eligible for classic insurance yet). It's difficult!
Edited by Twincam16 on Saturday 23 April 16:57
You don't mention a budget? I was going to recommend a Porsche 968#. If you really want a track day car go for the Club Sport. I'm not sure if the back seats are any bigger than the Excel, but I'm sure it will be more reliable.
If you want older, maybe a Triumph Stag? but the V8 might get a bit thirsty, and no idea how it would fare on a track.
Si.
If you want older, maybe a Triumph Stag? but the V8 might get a bit thirsty, and no idea how it would fare on a track.
Si.
- although I've never owned or driven one unfortunately.
I did mention a budget - £3k - so both Stag and 968 would be out on cost grounds (plus the Stag isn't something I'd be happy leaving outside).
Also, the rear seats in the 968 are a joke, assuming they're the same internal architecture as the 924.
Also, the rear seats in the 968 are a joke, assuming they're the same internal architecture as the 924.
Edited by Twincam16 on Saturday 23 April 19:17
Benengo said:
BMW 635 csi?.... but I would say that!
It's a possibility, although my point about a British motorsport connection still stands, partly because I've yet to own a British car of any kind and I feel it's time. My worry with that would be that it was too autobahn-orientated and most likely to be an automatic.Don't get me wrong, I do like them, just not enough to want one.
Plastic British 4 seater under 3k with looks/performance?
Lotus Excel - which you've already dismissed as being too small in the rear
TVR Tasmin 2+2 - even worse than the Lotus for rear leg room
Scimitar GTE - should meet your requirements
But non-British I'd consider others:-
Mk2 Golf GTI 16v - The Golf GTI to have
BMWs plenty to choose from 6 series coupe as mentioned, E30 318iS
Opel Manta
Audi Coupe
Alfa?
Lotus Excel - which you've already dismissed as being too small in the rear
TVR Tasmin 2+2 - even worse than the Lotus for rear leg room
Scimitar GTE - should meet your requirements
But non-British I'd consider others:-
Mk2 Golf GTI 16v - The Golf GTI to have
BMWs plenty to choose from 6 series coupe as mentioned, E30 318iS
Opel Manta
Audi Coupe
Alfa?
Reliant Scimitar GTE - sounds like the best match
Ginetta G26 http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Mercedes 190 Cosworth - UK motorsport connection but maybe need to spend a little more for a good one?
Rover SD1 Vitesse or V8 manual
2.8 Capri - German?
Opel Monza - not British I know but I like them!
Left field: Not regarded as 'classics' as such but how about a Rover 800 Coupe (or 5dr) 2.0 T16 turbo Manual?
Much better built than the phase 1 car, cheap to buy in good condition, good easily tuned 200bhp engine and 30mpg.
I'd say Escort RS turbo & boxy early '80s Astra GTE but they are fwd hatches!
Ginetta G26 http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Mercedes 190 Cosworth - UK motorsport connection but maybe need to spend a little more for a good one?
Rover SD1 Vitesse or V8 manual
2.8 Capri - German?
Opel Monza - not British I know but I like them!
Left field: Not regarded as 'classics' as such but how about a Rover 800 Coupe (or 5dr) 2.0 T16 turbo Manual?
Much better built than the phase 1 car, cheap to buy in good condition, good easily tuned 200bhp engine and 30mpg.
I'd say Escort RS turbo & boxy early '80s Astra GTE but they are fwd hatches!
Twincam16 said:
-Good-looking and 'special'. By this, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say 'no hatchbacks' (unless it's a three-door coupe or fastback saloon). There's just something a bit too 'ordinary' about a hatchback. Coupe, convertible, saloon, fastback or possibly even estate - I don't mind, but it's got to be the sort of thing that petrolheads in the know will crane their necks to get a better look when it goes by. Not in-yer-face flashy necessarily, but something that makes people go 'oh, that's a nice old thing'.
Y282 said:
Arthur Jackson said:
Twincam16 said:
-Good-looking and 'special'. By this, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say 'no hatchbacks' (unless it's a three-door coupe or fastback saloon). There's just something a bit too 'ordinary' about a hatchback. Coupe, convertible, saloon, fastback or possibly even estate - I don't mind, but it's got to be the sort of thing that petrolheads in the know will crane their necks to get a better look when it goes by. Not in-yer-face flashy necessarily, but something that makes people go 'oh, that's a nice old thing'.
Y282 said:
Arthur Jackson said:
But Twincam16 said:
Not in-yer-face flashy necessarily, but something that makes people go 'oh, that's a nice old thing'.
BMWs of that age seem to be driven by the image conscious desperate to get into a car with that badge as cheaply as possible..i certainly like mine (warning, shameless whoring follows):
Sorry guys, hate to say it but although the BMW 3-series is a great drive I'd just feel like a sales rep.
Ginetta G26 - definitely on the list, I do like those. Pinto's ripe for tuning too and there's not much that rusts or goes wrong. Sierra Cosworth engine transplant?
Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 - Another possibility but yes, prices do seem to be climbing rather urgently. LHD though.
Rover SD1 Vitesse - another definite possibility, but how bad are they for rust? I know the early 'recessed headlight' models probably started bubbling at the factory. Later models were better built (obviously including the Vitesse) - does anyone know quite how well?
Ford Capri 2.8i - Same problems as the GTE. I was really looking forward to driving one last month but it seriously underwhelmed (and that was an absolute minter too). I don't mind cars being a bit rough round the edges if that means a certain rawness on the road, but the Capri balances cheap and nasty levels of refinement with a louche, loafing attempt-at-Jag/Aston cruise (subsequently undermined by lack of torque).
Opel Monza - now there's a thought. And I guess there's the most tenuous of 'British' connections in that you could get it badged a Vauxhall Royale. Like it.
Does anyone have much experience of the Jaguar XJS 3.6 Coupe? I've been badly let down by XJSs in the past but they've all been V12 convertibles. They look a bit cramped in the rear though, and there's no avoiding their reputation for rust.
At the moment my mind is veering towards Ginetta, Mercedes, SD1 or Monza.
ETA>> This one's an absolute stunner. Pity I'm planning a year or so ahead or else I'd have snapped it up straight away:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Roman said:
Reliant Scimitar GTE - sounds like the best match
Ginetta G26 http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Mercedes 190 Cosworth - UK motorsport connection but maybe need to spend a little more for a good one?
Rover SD1 Vitesse or V8 manual
2.8 Capri - German?
Opel Monza - not British I know but I like them!
Left field: Not regarded as 'classics' as such but how about a Rover 800 Coupe (or 5dr) 2.0 T16 turbo Manual?
Much better built than the phase 1 car, cheap to buy in good condition, good easily tuned 200bhp engine and 30mpg.
I'd say Escort RS turbo & boxy early '80s Astra GTE but they are fwd hatches!
Scimitar GTE - yes, perennial favourite but I've never found those Ford V6s particularly satisfying. The 'Essex' is a right boat-anchor and the 'Cologne' has a mysterious lack of mid-range torque. Also, both are quite possibly the most 'allergic' to unleaded fuel and suffer rampant valve-seat recession. Not very quick either - Scimitar takes over 10 seconds to get to 60.Ginetta G26 http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Mercedes 190 Cosworth - UK motorsport connection but maybe need to spend a little more for a good one?
Rover SD1 Vitesse or V8 manual
2.8 Capri - German?
Opel Monza - not British I know but I like them!
Left field: Not regarded as 'classics' as such but how about a Rover 800 Coupe (or 5dr) 2.0 T16 turbo Manual?
Much better built than the phase 1 car, cheap to buy in good condition, good easily tuned 200bhp engine and 30mpg.
I'd say Escort RS turbo & boxy early '80s Astra GTE but they are fwd hatches!
Ginetta G26 - definitely on the list, I do like those. Pinto's ripe for tuning too and there's not much that rusts or goes wrong. Sierra Cosworth engine transplant?
Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 - Another possibility but yes, prices do seem to be climbing rather urgently. LHD though.
Rover SD1 Vitesse - another definite possibility, but how bad are they for rust? I know the early 'recessed headlight' models probably started bubbling at the factory. Later models were better built (obviously including the Vitesse) - does anyone know quite how well?
Ford Capri 2.8i - Same problems as the GTE. I was really looking forward to driving one last month but it seriously underwhelmed (and that was an absolute minter too). I don't mind cars being a bit rough round the edges if that means a certain rawness on the road, but the Capri balances cheap and nasty levels of refinement with a louche, loafing attempt-at-Jag/Aston cruise (subsequently undermined by lack of torque).
Opel Monza - now there's a thought. And I guess there's the most tenuous of 'British' connections in that you could get it badged a Vauxhall Royale. Like it.
Does anyone have much experience of the Jaguar XJS 3.6 Coupe? I've been badly let down by XJSs in the past but they've all been V12 convertibles. They look a bit cramped in the rear though, and there's no avoiding their reputation for rust.
At the moment my mind is veering towards Ginetta, Mercedes, SD1 or Monza.
ETA>> This one's an absolute stunner. Pity I'm planning a year or so ahead or else I'd have snapped it up straight away:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2653199.htm
Edited by Twincam16 on Sunday 24th April 11:45
if rust is an issue you can forget any ideas of a capri right now.
trust me on this one, a good 2.8i that won't have corrosion for 3k is very unlikely. also, unleaded is an issue, they're bloody noisy inside and genreally not as good as you remember them.
how do i know this? i've got one.
trust me on this one, a good 2.8i that won't have corrosion for 3k is very unlikely. also, unleaded is an issue, they're bloody noisy inside and genreally not as good as you remember them.
how do i know this? i've got one.
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