What is a Classic Car?
Discussion
IMHO a classic car can be defined not only by age, but also the impact its design made on the motoring world at large or its place in the cultural zeitgeist.
In the classic spotters thread, the question was asked, whether or not a car automatically becomes a “classic” when it reaches a certain age, one of the examples given was the Mk1 Ford Fiesta, a vehicle that has hit and passed the 25 year barrier (f
k that makes me feel old!) do we consider this a classic and if so what makes it one?
After all what makes something like a Dino 206/246 a classic and not something as successful as a Ford Fiesta? . . . it would be easy to argue that the Ford is the better car as it's more versatile
In the classic spotters thread, the question was asked, whether or not a car automatically becomes a “classic” when it reaches a certain age, one of the examples given was the Mk1 Ford Fiesta, a vehicle that has hit and passed the 25 year barrier (f
k that makes me feel old!) do we consider this a classic and if so what makes it one? After all what makes something like a Dino 206/246 a classic and not something as successful as a Ford Fiesta? . . . it would be easy to argue that the Ford is the better car as it's more versatile
For me a classic is a car that was heralded at the time as being either innovative, beautiful, iconic, have racing heritage, quirky etc.
However, I understand that older standard cars can be referred to as classic because of their age and them now being rare but maybe these should be considered 'cherished'?
At the end of the day its very subjective and there can be no firm definition.
However, I understand that older standard cars can be referred to as classic because of their age and them now being rare but maybe these should be considered 'cherished'?
At the end of the day its very subjective and there can be no firm definition.
For me it's simple. A car becomes a classic when someone is willing to spend more to repair it than it's market value.
You can usually poke holes in any other definition using just the MGB and the Ford Escort. Neither were rare in their day nor today (in fact I'd suggest more Mk1 Escorts survive than Mk1 Fiestas). Neither really pushed back the boundaries of car design (leaver arm dampers, cart springs and live rear axles anyone). The last MGB was built in 1980 but they were considered classics long before 2005 when they reached 25 years old.
You can usually poke holes in any other definition using just the MGB and the Ford Escort. Neither were rare in their day nor today (in fact I'd suggest more Mk1 Escorts survive than Mk1 Fiestas). Neither really pushed back the boundaries of car design (leaver arm dampers, cart springs and live rear axles anyone). The last MGB was built in 1980 but they were considered classics long before 2005 when they reached 25 years old.
//j17 said:
For me it's simple. A car becomes a classic when someone is willing to spend more to repair it than it's market value.
You can usually poke holes in any other definition .
and that one You can usually poke holes in any other definition .
The market value of my 13+ year old Volvo V70 is ..... less than I spend on almost any repair, and it's certainly NOT a classic!
Elderly said:
and that one
The market value of my 13+ year old Volvo V70 is ..... less than I spend on almost any repair, and it's certainly NOT a classic!
Why do you keep hold of it then, when you could scrap it, buy a working 12+ year-old V70 and have money left in your wallet to fill her up? Could it be you have a more than practical interest in the car and a desire to keep a once (relatively) common car on the road?The market value of my 13+ year old Volvo V70 is ..... less than I spend on almost any repair, and it's certainly NOT a classic!
Sounds like a classic to me, and also something of a landmark car that helped turn Volvo from granddad-mobile-designed-with-a-set-square to something people might desire and with 'sleeper' performance in T5 guise. Not popular, not highly valued but probably a classic.
//j17 said:
Why do you keep hold of it then, when you could scrap it, buy a working 12+ year-old V70 and have money left in your wallet to fill her up?
Because I'm always hoping that the next repair will be it's last 
.I've owned it since almost new, but taking on a working (at this moment) 'new to me' 12 year old example MIGHT prove very costly.
I generally picture a 'classic car' as something with chrome bumpers, so just being of a certain era along the lines of:
vintage - pre-WW11
classic - WWII to 1975'ish
modern classic - 1975 to roughly 15-20 years ago.
It seems that I make a distinction between a 'classic car' and calling a particular car 'classic'. The former is just an old car but the latter is literally correct (i.e. something special and of any age, like when you talk of a car being an instant classic, e.g. Elise).
Complicated....
vintage - pre-WW11
classic - WWII to 1975'ish
modern classic - 1975 to roughly 15-20 years ago.
It seems that I make a distinction between a 'classic car' and calling a particular car 'classic'. The former is just an old car but the latter is literally correct (i.e. something special and of any age, like when you talk of a car being an instant classic, e.g. Elise).
Complicated....
CosworthV8 said:
This was mentioned briefly in this months Classic and Sports Car - apparently in Europe the terms 'Oldtimer' and 'Youngtimer' are applied.
in Germanythe silly 'Oldtimer' is clearly a borrowed American Englishism used for an old car
but in Germany any car over 30 yrs old can get a 'historic' nbumber plate - cheaper tax and insurance etc - so that's an 'official' Oldtimer
anything under that 30 yr mark which the owner fancies as a classic is plainly, with German literal translation "the opposite of 'old' is 'young' so it must be Youngtimer"
crostonian said:
I believe that anything over 25-30 years old is a classic irrespective of value. To use the OP's example it usually occurs that fewer run of the mill cars survive than exotics, so whatever is left is a classic.
So what about my 1993 TVR S3? Not yet 20 years old but already considered by many as a classic. Perhaps a more interesting question is when does a car revert from being 'an old nail' to a classic? This has nothing to do with age. In which case can a car be considered a 'classic' from day one?
You see I ask this as cars on which people will shell out thousands of pounds for could at one time be bought for buttons; including all S-Type, 340, MKII and E-Type Jags. Thing is will the XJ40 go the same way, or always remain an old nail?
And yet, to my knowledge, my S3 and various other cars have never had 'old nail' status.
radlet6 said:
So what about my 1993 TVR S3? Not yet 20 years old but already considered by many as a classic.
Perhaps a more interesting question is when does a car revert from being 'an old nail' to a classic?
The life and value of a car is similar to the letter "U". It starts at the top in value and via depreciation the price drops and drops till the price tends to bottom out at say £150 in some cases. Then people start to get more interested as they start to disappear to the scrap yard, and then the price slowly starts to creep up again until the car becomes quite sought after, then the price really starts to move upwards.Take for example the positively evil marinas, Itals, Princess wedges and allegro's....Few years ago, these would be queuing at your gate for £40 a go, but now as they have all rusted away and been scrapped, the remaining ones are starting to fetch more money (I'd go to at least £60)!Perhaps a more interesting question is when does a car revert from being 'an old nail' to a classic?
mgroadster said:
radlet6 said:
So what about my 1993 TVR S3? Not yet 20 years old but already considered by many as a classic.
Perhaps a more interesting question is when does a car revert from being 'an old nail' to a classic?
The life and value of a car is similar to the letter "U". It starts at the top in value and via depreciation the price drops and drops till the price tends to bottom out at say £150 in some cases. Then people start to get more interested as they start to disappear to the scrap yard, and then the price slowly starts to creep up again until the car becomes quite sought after, then the price really starts to move upwards.Take for example the positively evil marinas, Itals, Princess wedges and allegro's....Few years ago, these would be queuing at your gate for £40 a go, but now as they have all rusted away and been scrapped, the remaining ones are starting to fetch more money (I'd go to at least £60)!Perhaps a more interesting question is when does a car revert from being 'an old nail' to a classic?
No, it is something more than that. There needs to be a certain something about a vehicle that makes a group of people collectively go out of their way to start saving the remaining cars. I gave the example of the XJ6 being one such example, but contrasted that with the XJ40; will that be saved in the same way? I doubt it.
Sometimes it takes time, as with the Allegro and wedge, and sometimes it is almost instantaneous as with the MGB.
I pose then this question: Casting aside the obvious sports and exotic examples, which of today's cars (or even those from the 90's) do we think might be future classics in the same way the Allegro, 1300, Triumph 2000 etc have become: The Vectra? Micra? Fiat 500? mini?
My hypothesis is that not many will be.
Edited by radlet6 on Sunday 20th February 15:20
radlet6 said:
Thank you for the lesson in elementary economics. However, I believe that it is just that: elementary. You see your U shape theory (or bathtub curve to give its correct moniker) does not apply to all cars. Some will vanish into the mists of time without so much as a glance back from the motoring enthusiast. Let us take for example the Citroen Visa, Talbot Horizon, Alfa Arna, Fiat 124, Renault 12; all these hit the bottom of the bathtub, and will never again to rise to the surface.
The climb in value is steeper for some cars than for others, but all cars do eventually rise in value when they become old and rare enough. A less desirable car has to be perfect though.radlet6 said:
No, it is something more than that. There needs to be a certain something about a vehicle that makes a group of people collectively go out of their way to start saving the remaining cars. I gave the example of the XJ6 being one such example, but contrasted that with the XJ40; will that be saved in the same way? I doubt it.
You'd be surprised, interest in the XJ40 is increasing. Desirability is about demographics; a Series Jaguar means less to a 20 year old than it does to a 50 year old.radlet6 said:
Sometimes it takes time, as with the Allegro and wedge, and sometimes it is almost instantaneous as with the MGB.
I pose then this question: Casting aside the obvious sports and exotic examples, which of today's cars (or even those from the 90's) do we think might be future classics in the same way the Allegro, 1300, Triumph 2000 etc have become: The Vectra? Micra? Fiat 500? mini?
My hypothesis is that not many will be.
I think they will. The models? - anything which provokes an emotional reaction in people twenty or thirty years from now. I won't understand their choices, or how such cars can be desirable but it won't be my generation which decides... I pose then this question: Casting aside the obvious sports and exotic examples, which of today's cars (or even those from the 90's) do we think might be future classics in the same way the Allegro, 1300, Triumph 2000 etc have become: The Vectra? Micra? Fiat 500? mini?
My hypothesis is that not many will be.
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