Modern engine into a classic.........DVLA?

[kartman24]

Does anyone know what the rules regarding an engine change in a classic to something more modern are? I was thinking that if you put an upto date economical engine, say 1.0 or 1.2L into a small engined classic to get the fuel economy and the free road tax does the car then fall into the SVA type problems or do you just change the cc on the log book?.........Martin

[davepoth]

They've changed the rules on this recently.

DVLA said:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

* a receipt for the replacement engine
* written evidence from the manufacturer
* an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
* written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

[DougieMc]

When we did ours we sent the v5 away with a covering letter on headed paper advising the chassis number engine number reg etc
Advising that the conversion is safe for use on the road and has been upgraded with all relevant parts including suspension and brakes
2 weeks later the V5 came back all changed and that was from a 998cc to a 1998cc no probs

[kartman24]

Ok, thanks for the replies, next question is what modern small 1 or 1.l litre engine can be mounted in line and made to drive a rear wheel drive car. I know there must be companies who make conversion/adapter plates, can for instance a Corsa engine be made to run a rear wheel drive car using a rear wheel drive type gearbox?........Martin

[davepoth]

Off the top of my head, a 1.1 rover K series engine should be easy enough since the kit is available for the essentially similar bigger engine. The engine out of a Ford Ka (not the new one) should also be fairly easy since it originally came out of a Ford Anglia. Small Corsa engines should be very similar to the engine out of the Chevette, so they should bolt right up.

[NHK244V]

You'll need to more specific as to make ect, for instance all ford 4Cyl engines from the early 60s till the mid noughtys used the same bellhousing bolt pattern (the duratec was the first to be differant due to being a mazda engine) wether FWD or RWD, a lot of vauxhalls share the same B/H pattern but not to the extent fords did/do.

[davepoth]

One thing well worth saying is that you'll find a lot of small engines haven't changed all that much in 20-30 years, aside from fuel injection. You'd probably be better off fitting fuel injection to an old car rather than changing the engine if economy is the goal.

[KelWedge]

davepoth said:

They've changed the rules on this recently.

DVLA said:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

* a receipt for the replacement engine
* written evidence from the manufacturer
* an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
* written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

And when you send all that back with your V5, Keep a copy and send it tracked and signed for to DVLA,
I didnt, they said they didnt get it after i rang them 5 weeks later, Result in me having to apply for a new V5 (costing ££) DVLA sending it to me, this being with the old engine details on it, then me having to send it back with all the stuff I sent the first time all this just to add 1100cc

[aeropilot]

kartman24 said:

Ok, thanks for the replies, next question is what modern small 1 or 1.l litre engine can be mounted in line and made to drive a rear wheel drive car. I know there must be companies who make conversion/adapter plates, can for instance a Corsa engine be made to run a rear wheel drive car using a rear wheel drive type gearbox?........Martin

As has been said, it would help if you were a bit more specific over what car it is.
There are plenty of options to do what your suggesting...you can put anything into anything given a big enough hammer and a decent welder but it will be easier to narrow the options down given what car you're talking about.

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 14th February 11:24

[Hooli]

kartman24 said:

a Corsa engine

Stop there!

I've driven a few Corsas & they can't tow a rice crispy so you'll end up building a slower car that's worth less!

[BMWChris]

I can't think of a classic that is small enough to be ok with a modern very small engine that doesn't already have a small engine!

Also, seems like a lot of effort to save a few quid VED.

If you really wanted to do something clever re economy then there are lots of modern turbo diesels that would be very appropriate for a classic. A Rover P6, say, with a 4cyl diesel engine and autobox from a 3 series or C class, for example, would be more economic than an SC and faster than a V8 and has pelnty of room for lots of sound deadening under the bonnet.

[aeropilot]

BMWChris said:

Also, seems like a lot of effort to save a few quid VED.

How would you save anything on VED by doing this.....????

I'm guessing only saving is fuel... which on a classic is negliable anyway given the less miles done.

To me the whole point of old cars is the old technology, so I don't really get the 'modernisation' thing..... unless going the whole old style 'custom car' scenario....??

[BMWChris]

aeropilot said:

How would you save anything on VED by doing this.....????

I'm guessing only saving is fuel... which on a classic is negliable anyway given the less miles done.

To me the whole point of old cars is the old technology, so I don't really get the 'modernisation' thing..... unless going the whole old style 'custom car' scenario....??

OP implies he wants to save road tax.

[onomatopoeia]

davepoth said:

They've changed the rules on this recently.

DVLA said:

Change to engine and cylinder capacity (engine size)

DVLA will need written evidence of any changes to engine number and cylinder capacity (cc). Written evidence can be:

* a receipt for the replacement engine
* written evidence from the manufacturer
* an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
* written confirmation on headed paper from a garage if the change in engine size took place before you bought the vehicle

And it's a proper pain in the arse. I gave up. My "replacement engine" I bought from a bloke in Peterborough in 1995 for cash. It has no engine number as it was built from a block supplied by the Rootes competition department in Coventry in the 1960s. Written evidence from Singer might be a touch difficult. The insurers did not require an inspection report for me to increase the capacity from 875cc to 998cc, I just told them I had fitted a larger capacity engine of the same sort. Given the externally the engine blocks are identical (the 998s had "875" cast into them as they are modified 875 blocks), the difference is the pistons and cylinder liners, I'm not sure what an engineers report would achieve anyway. I changed the engine so the final option of written confirmation from a garage doesn't apply either.

So, my car is insured as a 998cc but registered as an 875cc because dealing with Swansea is like gouging out your own eyes. I actually went to the local DVLA office and talked to someone who was as helpful as he could be, but ultimately said I would have to deal with Swansea as he couldn't sort it out.


Oh, and the new v5c doesn't have a permenantly scrapped box, so if (like me) you strip the shell, keep all the mechanicals and cut up the rest with an angle grinder before throwing it in the scrap metal bin at the local tip, there's no way to tell the DVLA. Brilliant.

DVLA. Not fit for purpose.

[jagracer]

BMWChris said:

OP implies he wants to save road tax.

How would you save road tax as anything registered before 2001 falls into 2 groups below or above 1500cc. One other point to note is that come MOT time the car should be tested for emissions according to the year of the engine so make sure if it's a late one it will meet the criteria set for that engine not the year of the car.

[a8hex]

jagracer said:

How would you save road tax as anything registered before 2001 falls into 2 groups below or above 1500cc.

It isn't all of 2001, it's something like March 2001.
MrsB8's MB is January 2001 and so counts under the old scheme, her mate bought one to match, but has to pay a lot more tax sorry

[jagracer]

a8hex said:

jagracer said:

How would you save road tax as anything registered before 2001 falls into 2 groups below or above 1500cc.

It isn't all of 2001, it's something like March 2001.
MrsB8's MB is January 2001 and so counts under the old scheme, her mate bought one to match, but has to pay a lot more tax sorry

I did write 'before' 2001 not all of.

[aeropilot]

jagracer said:

BMWChris said:

OP implies he wants to save road tax.

How would you save road tax as anything registered before 2001 falls into 2 groups below or above 1500cc. One other point to note is that come MOT time the car should be tested for emissions according to the year of the engine so make sure if it's a late one it will meet the criteria set for that engine not the year of the car.

Exactly.

Until the OP (if he ever returns to the thread) starts giving a bit more detail, we'll just keep going around in circles with this one - far too many variables at the moment.

[kartman24]

Following some suggestions by others on the forum i am looking at the Toyota Aygo 998cc engine, decent bhp for a 1.Litre, 63 mpg and 95mph when fitted in the Aygo. The reason for looking at the possibility is not the road tax issue, i have that with a pre72 car it is the amount and cost of fuel i am using at present. The Aygo engine would have to be mounted in the car in the coventional (not transvere) manner in the front but driving the rear wheels. I wonder if a Toyota celica 5 speed could be made to mate to it with an adapter plate.......Martin

[davepoth]

Read this thread.

http://www.retrocarclub.co.uk/topic/9456-1971-hill...