Midget, Spitfire, GT6 or similar as first car

[ICSD]

Hi folks

It's come to my attention that a classic is the way to go as a first car in order to get a sensible insurance premium which is really quite exciting as I thought eldest son was going to be lumped with some chavvy old hatchback and he's really excited at the prospect of something a bit interesting.

I'm looking down the old british sports car route and quite fancy a 1275 Midget but a 1500 Midget or a Spitfire could also be a possibility.

So, I could really do with some advice in terms of what's good, which is best, what to look out for etc etc as my only experience was an MGB GT way back in my youth and I can't really remember that much about it!

Thanks in advance.

[Flipatron]

Oh Christ no! buy something 80's that'll start in the mornings.

[chard]

A 1275 Midget is a great choice easy to and cheap to fix/run and a hoot to drive. However not great on Motorways the engine revs it's nuts off @ 70 high transmission noise.

1500's came with higher gearing but (arguably) not such a tough engine.
Spitfires were available with over drive so this helps but (imo) not as fun.

Make sure the hood fits well if your using it as a daily many only come out in the dry and the vynal hoods arn;t brilliant.

[D18OCK]

Other PH'ders are prob getting bored of me posting about mine by now but I love it.

I bought my 1975 1500 Spitfire back in October for a bargain £1900, mechanically sound and rust free and came with the original hardtop. Insurance is something like £104 a year for 3000miles and track day and event cover.

But be careful as there are some awful ones out there. You seem to know what you are looking at though.

GT6's are increasingly rare and therefore expensive. My mate has a MKI - lovely car but not cheap!

MGBGTs again there are loads out there but some people are just dreamers - sills are evil!

Check the insurance though as I have heard that they can turn out equally expensive as they are an only car!

Spent lots of money since these pics but you get the idea.

[Dogwatch]

Flipatron said:

Oh Christ no! buy something 80's that'll start in the mornings.

..and doesn't have a manual choke. Not that I haven't spent countless winters wrestling with one but on a freezing morning with the windows misting up, traffic approaching from all directions and the sun shining straight in your face it is a distraction you could really do without.

[Harry Flashman]

My first car (in 1995) was a 1969 MGB roadster, tartan red, with cream leather. It was tatty as hell, but breakdowns taught me a lot about getting cars going, and was by far the coolest car amongst my friends' conveyances.

Bad points of classics:

- nonexistent crash protection
- woeful heaters (a serious problem in the roadster in winter, less so in a BGT)
- dodgy reliability (but on this, just spend as much as you can afford for one with rebuilt electrics, electronic ignition and a recent engine overhaul.
- rust, rust, rust. Again, buy one restored and waxoyled.

I still miss mine today. It was great.

[Hooli]

Dogwatch said:

Flipatron said:

Oh Christ no! buy something 80's that'll start in the mornings.

..and doesn't have a manual choke. Not that I haven't spent countless winters wrestling with one but on a freezing morning with the windows misting up, traffic approaching from all directions and the sun shining straight in your face it is a distraction you could really do without.

I had a '78 Midget as my daily drive for three years (& six more as a toy) The only time it failed to start was when the earth lead snapped, hardly a bad record. Wish I'd kept it but it was wasting not being used once I discovered motorbikes so I sold it & got an old Triumph Bonneville instead.

As for manual chokes, I'd always go for one as auto chokes are nothing but a complete pain in the arse that never work right.

[West4x4]

Do it! depeding if he's into cars that is. He might want a chavvy st box!

[Hooli]

West4x4 said:

Do it! depeding if he's into cars that is. He might want a chavvy st box!

So if you don't find it worth doing just disown him!

[wildoliver]

Do it indeed, my first car was a Midget 1275 and I've never looked back, as for manual chokes and safety features your son will actually learn to drive properly, in other words slow down if visibility is poor and appreciate how vulnerable he is.

I crashed mine many many times, I broke it even more, but I'd never change my choice.

[Alan Kee]

I had a spitfire as my first car 30 years ago. I still have it! Teaches you about driving a car rather than just sitting in it and getting bored Every journey becomes an adventure , for better or worse, but an adventure nonetheless.

[RV8]

Dogwatch said:

Flipatron said:

Oh Christ no! buy something 80's that'll start in the mornings.

..and doesn't have a manual choke. Not that I haven't spent countless winters wrestling with one but on a freezing morning with the windows misting up, traffic approaching from all directions and the sun shining straight in your face it is a distraction you could really do without.

Hassle indeed, you must be getting old chap. I have a "peg on some string ®" I use to to hold my choke out because the twist lock has broken and the choke cable wont stay out without it, even then it's only a light distraction and that's on a V8, which burns through fuel with the choke pulled out like Bristol Beaufighter on takeoff, so you really want to be timing the pushing in of the choke with a reasonable amount of accuracy. A manual choke cable that worked would be a luxury item for me yet I'd have either of those options over the automatic choke, in the form of a shonky wax stat, in my 80's Scirocco - which just plain refused to work properly.

[mattius]

I learned to drive in and still own a triumph spitfire 1500.

the question is are you mechanically minded, if you aint changed a spark plug before and havent any incling too, then walk away.
If you have or would like to learn, i cant reacomend the spitfire enough, i rate it above the midget purely cause its easier for a beginner to work on.

The savings in tax and insurance can be massive, but the cost of running them is a lot higher and if you want something that will start every day on the button, you might not be looking in the right place. Thats not to say they cant be made to work like that, more you wont buy one like that.

When i first passed my test the spitfire was £600 a year to insure fully comp, the nissan almera the folks owned was £1300 a year.
Now i pay £100 a year fully comp with international breakdown and all mods declared (theres lots of them) and an agreed value of £7000! that is just silly!

[ICSD]

Thanks for all the great replies chaps. He is absolutely keen as mustard to go down this route - he loves his cars and was actually dreading the chav wagon!

Flipatron said:

Oh Christ no! buy something 80's that'll start in the mornings.

This had occured to me and I have thought about an E21 316 or possibly an early E30 but actually I quite like the idea of him being in something that needs nursing - this is how I learned to drive and it teaches you so much about the basics of driving and also the basics of mechanics.

With all the positive comments about the 1275 Midget I'm really tempted to go that route now as they don't seem excessively expensive to buy.

Am I right in thinking that it's an A-Series engine?

What should I look out for when buying?

What's a good club to join? (required for classic insurance)

Where do you get parts from?

I live in the South East - where's a good place to get it Waxoiled if not already done?

Thanks chaps

[Nigel At]

ICSD said:

With all the positive comments about the 1275 Midget I'm really tempted to go that route now as they don't seem excessively expensive to buy.

if you buy too cheap then you usually get a cheap vehicle that'll be very expensive and a misery

ICSD said:

Am I right in thinking that it's an A-Series engine?

yes you are

ICSD said:

What should I look out for when buying?

first thing buy a owners Handbook for £8 as it will tell you no end, what and how often components need servicing and how primitive a Spridget is for even an early 60s car let alone mid-70s
MGOC do a pamphlet of what to look for, rust in sills is main thing

ICSD said:

What's a good club to join? (required for classic insurance)

you'll get more answers for this - IMO, MGOC for road going, MGCC for sports, MASC for smaller Spridget based but check if recognised by each insurer

ICSD said:

Where do you get parts from?

loas of places - look for what's it sake you and your lad should do a lot more research other than just asking on here, there's loads of info about

ICSD said:

I live in the South East - where's a good place to get it Waxoiled if not already done?

Thanks chaps

you could try - http://www.rustmaster.co.uk/index_43785.htm

You also need to consider that even though the Spridgets are low powered they are still light RWD cars and if driven badly an 'over enthusiastic' driver could be put in to a ditch and very badly hurt the car and themselves - on the other hand small mistakes will teach a driver to drive more than modern cars

You also need to lok at and test drive as many examples as you can before buying, test a good example well above your budget to see how they should and that they don't "all do that" on faults

What ever your budget it'll probably be too low for what you want and remember to put aside money for servicing, a full and proper 36,000 miles service (look it up in your owners Handbook) and don't do any cosmetics or improvements until the car has been driven for 12 months

ETA: - pressed wrong button - for loads more threads on Spridgets on PH you could just look thro' my profile for the thread not just for what I've put but what others have put - but as I've put above do a lot more research elsewhere and get your lad to look too as if he doesn't then maybe it's you that wants the car more than him

Edited by Nigel At on Tuesday 25th January 13:08

[RV8]

ICSD said:

Am I right in thinking that it's an A-Series engine?

Most are Yep.

ICSD said:

What should I look out for when buying?

Rot, check for wet carpets, check roof, check doors shut easily and the panel gaps are good, check for lack of power the 1275 should be nippy but wont set the road on fire, listen for overly rattly timing chain and knocking and leaks on engine, mayo in the rad cap and condition of oil on dip stick.

ICSD said:

I live in the South East - where's a good place to get it Waxoiled if not already done?

Just ring a few classic car places.
I wouldn't take it somewhere for that, get some ramps and axle stands and have him to wear a load of scruffs and a disposable all-in-one, pair of goggles and a wire brush possibly remove the exhaust too then apply the waxoil properly. Most places I've worked at won't spend almost a whole day wire brushing every nook and cranny of the underside, which is the best way to do it properly, because customers will not pay for someone to spend a whole day @£40 per hour for that sort of job to be done so meticulously. At the least do the wire brushing and send it to someone who'll spray it. Doing it himself will allow him to see the general condition of the car rather than lather the waxoil over potential problems and think "well that's been done, no need to worry about the floor" which is what some people do.

[Nigel At]

D18OCK said:

Insurance is something like £104 a year for 3000miles

Spridget owners have unlimted mileage !

Sorry Darren couldn't resist and my insurance company charges no extra for unlimted mileage so always ask just in case

[Nigel At]

If you're still interested in getting a Spridget after research and test driving then this is a good place for information - http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgb...

[Yertis]

Are these crazy low insurance quotes costs for real? Don't you need to be insured on another car to get them? I'd far rather my 19 yr old daughter had a Spit than a Ka, and I'm sure so would she.

[Nigel At]

Yertis said:

Are these crazy low insurance quotes costs for real? Don't you need to be insured on another car to get them? I'd far rather my 19 yr old daughter had a Spit than a Ka, and I'm sure so would she.

Don't know that they'd be that low for a 19 yr old as a lot of them crash cars (remember it was the same for our generation)

My insurance is for my only daily drive car, a '73 Spridget, with agreed valuation, unlimited mileage, modifications, no garage, UK and European Breakdown and probably other bits I can't remember now - but I'm an old fart of 50