Replacing a sill

[niagra]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a car that needs both sills doing for the MOT. I can't weld so I will have to trust it with a professional.

I have spoken to a welder who told me to allow 15-20 hours per sill at £35 per hour to do a proper job that will last over 10 years. The vendor of the car reckons he was quoted an hour's labour for both sills!

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure in cost/hours taken to replace one sill?

Thanks,
Dario

[slomax]

I have no idea, although people can't give you an answer unless they know what the car in question is.... Sills on a mini are going to be a whole lot cheaper, for example, than sills on something like a mk2 Jag

[Zebrano]

My garage today quoted me £50 to repair the badly rusted away sill on my car if that helps at all.

[neutral 3]

15 to 20 houres.....sounds like you are beeing taken for a ride...however, what is the car ?

[davepoth]

10 hours a side is about normal. Does depend a bit on the car though. Some (MGBs are notorious) have very complicated sills which take a lot longer.

[Eggman]

I suspect your welder fellow either knows that the car in question has a complicated sill structure (with internal gussets and so on) or doesn't want the job. Possibly both.

The vendor is probably thinking in terms of a bodge like tacking repair panels over the existing rusty ones, and has a somewhat optimistic view on how long things take.

Years ago a friend and I bodged such a repair panel onto a MkII Cavalier, although we did cut out a lot of the grot first and seam welded it properly. It probably took us an afternoon, but we work like Laurel & Hardy.

[niagra]

Thanks for all the replies. The car in question is a Talbot Sunbeam

[72twink]

I thought I was seeing double for a second there Dario ...... teach me to check the two forums one after another!!

[944Nick]

Speaking from my amateur experience of welding, it could easily take 10 hours per side to do properly (Austin 1800). If it's a Sunbeam Lotus, why not join the Sunbeam Lotus Owners Club and discuss it with members on their forum?

regards
Nick

Edited by 944Nick on Tuesday 7th December 22:06

[niagra]

Yes, I am a member of the owners' club , have been for many years and have also posted there!

Just trying to get a wide range of opinions really but should have guessed that if I use several forums then most people probably do as well!!

[b2hbm]

Hi,

I've replaced a few sills on classics (Mini, Imp, Midget, MR2) and they all take far longer than an hour, let alone an hour for both sides !

It depends how bad they are once you've cut away the outer skin. Normally there's an inner section around jacking points which gets corroded as well and in really bad cases the inner sill (floorpan) might also need repair, especially if it's close to seat belt mounts. So it's very difficult to quote for a job until you cut away the outer sill and see just how much is needed. I guess your 20hrs quote is assuming the worst.

Personally I'd say 4-5hrs per side for something like the mini which only needed the outer section doing and where you can buy replacement panels, but the MR2 took me a couple of days; one day to strip away and repair the inner sections with homemade panels (you couldn't buy repair sections) then another day to sort the outer sill, fill & smooth the door shuts, paint and inject with wax. That must have been close to the 20hrs/side.

[tog]

niagra said:

allow 15-20 hours per sill

If it's any consolation, my Bristol is currently having new sills, inner and outer, and some chassis holes patched, and while we're at it a new boot floor as well, and it's heading for 80 hours so far, including the time spent painting and waxoyling. Proper job mind, and not helped by me driving all year round, through salt and winter sh*te, for years. Car is 40 years old and was last restored 20 years ago, so I hope this will now last at least another 20.

[//j17]

1hr per-sill
1) Ugly bit of MOT welding.

5hr per-sill
1) Grab pair of sills pannels
2) Slapped over the top of the existing ones.
3) Tack in place.
4) Maybe weld properly, possibly just grab the can of filler.

15-20hr per-sill
1) Stip necessary interior/widing/fuel pipes/etc
2) Brace door gap
3) Cut off outer sill, expect to have to cut out middle and possible some/all of inner sill
4) Possibly cut and patch some of the floor pan and/or bodywork beyond the sill
5) Offer up sills and tack in place.
6) Re-fit door and test panel gaps.
7) Repeat 5 & 6 at least a couple of times to get them right, probably having to cut and re-shape the replacement panels to get a good fit.
8) Weld in place properly.
9) Re-paint and rust-proof.
10) Re-fit everything from 1.

[niagra]

Hmm, a wide ranging set of opinions! Sounds like the best thing to do is a buy a welder, learn to weld, and do it myself!

[//j17]

niagra said:

Hmm, a wide ranging set of opinions! Sounds like the best thing to do is a buy a welder, learn to weld, and do it myself!

Depends - is it a daily hack, in which case you might want to just get the MOT welding done so you can keep it on the road. You probably won't want it out of use the time it will take for you to learn to weld and replace the sills yourself.

If it's a restoration project you don't need to use till the summer, go for it yourself.

If your a polisher then... well you should probably get out more.

[niagra]

It would be a project, but would be nice to get it done for the summer!

[guru_1071]

ive just done a full inner/outer sill (inc a bit of the floor, crossmember end, subframe mount panel etc) on a mini - it took about two full days.

the cost (in time) isnt just 'clapping' the new sill into place, but chopping back all the rot and making good so that the new panel has something to attach to.

i bet i have about 20 hours so far, and still have a bit more to do yet (and the depressing prospect of the same on the other side!)

like painting, the prep before the new bit is welded on is what makes (or breaks) the job - its all the measuring before and during, getting the car right so its not moving or able to twist etc etc

during







new one in for final check



just about finished




this car was a time machine of bodged sills - but showing what was 'acceptable' in the day as repairs

first there was patches welded and screwed on the original sills (done proir to 1971), all slathered with underseal.

then there was yellow mot crayon on the holes in the sills, covered up with a pair of poor cover sills gas welded on 'one inch of weld every four inch' - done sometime in the late 1970's

when i prised the outer sills off there was an avalance of rust, scale, mud and fith all trapped behind the cover outer sill and a cover inner sill that had been clapped onto the floor and door step

the only panel that was worth saving was the door step.

its been done correctly now..........

Edited by guru_1071 on Wednesday 8th December 19:37

[alfa pint]

As said above, an hour is nowhere near enough to replace a sill.

MG B ~ £300 a side inc parts.

Won't be quite so bad with a sunbeam as the need for bracing isn't so great as you have a roof.

[Stitch]

niagra said:

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a car that needs both sills doing for the MOT. I can't weld so I will have to trust it with a professional.

I have spoken to a welder who told me to allow 15-20 hours per sill at £35 per hour to do a proper job that will last over 10 years. The vendor of the car reckons he was quoted an hour's labour for both sills!

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure in cost/hours taken to replace one sill?

Thanks,
Dario

£35/hour is absolute top $ for a welder - at that kind of price I would be asking to see his codings.