Morris Minor dynamo - Up to the job?
Discussion
My girfriends Morris Minor let me down today with a flat battery. This was after a 20 mile drive so thought this would charge it enough to start at the other end. The problem i have is this was with the lights, heater, radio and windscreen wipers on. When i got home tonight i put the multimeter over the battery with the engine running at tickover. It showed 11.5V and 9.3V with the headlights on. Is this a dynamo or battery problem, or just because i had too much stuff running at the time.
Is an alternator conversion my only option?
Is an alternator conversion my only option?
It could be the control box, probably on a minor an RB340 from memory. In the Haynes manual should be a whole set of test parameters for the dynamo & control box. Probably a knackered brush in the dynamo. As a daily driver I'd be hunting down a metro alternator & A series bracket as it'd give you a better chance of charging with all the electrical load on in the winter.
The regulator box as it's known , is not to be tampered with if you're unsure what you're doing as you can cook the battery , also the battery condition is everything with the old dynamo set up , don't expect more than 2-3 years out of a small battery if you are running your classic in the winter with everything going.
With my 1300s, I used to get a few problems with power in the winter. I do have a 12" subwoofer in the boot.
Since I got the 2 door, I've had no problems. I know that with heater, lights, radio and wipers it's boarderline, but it hasn't let me down at all yet.
Might want to make sure the battery is a good one, the batteries in the cars that have let me down have always been not great in the first place and I think that's what's caused the issue.
Since I got the 2 door, I've had no problems. I know that with heater, lights, radio and wipers it's boarderline, but it hasn't let me down at all yet.
Might want to make sure the battery is a good one, the batteries in the cars that have let me down have always been not great in the first place and I think that's what's caused the issue.
I'm probably well off beam here, but this thread brings back a hazy memory that dynamos don't charge very well at low revs. IIRC it used to be quite common for the charge indicator light to come on when you stopped at traffic lights with headlights on, so I'd put the multimeter on when it's revving at 2000+rpm and see what you're getting then before deciding if there is a problem.
If your car is still basically the same electrical spec, then it's managed for probably 40-50yrs with a dynamo to keep it going so my first guess would be "sure it's up to the job". If you've upgraded headlights, added spotlights/heated rear window element/etc then ok, maybe it's not going to produce enough charge.
Is an alternator conversion worth it ?
IMO it certainly is. I've done 2, the first because the regulator box had gone chips and it was cheaper to buy a 17ACR alternator from a scrapyard and cobble up a bracket than get a new regulator box ! But with your car the A series engine was used with alternators so all the parts are out there just waiting to go on; I bet you'll be able to buy a complete kit with instructions.
If you're changing from +ve to -ve earthing at the same time then you need to check over the instruments and radio, but usually it's only rev counters that give problems.
If your car is still basically the same electrical spec, then it's managed for probably 40-50yrs with a dynamo to keep it going so my first guess would be "sure it's up to the job". If you've upgraded headlights, added spotlights/heated rear window element/etc then ok, maybe it's not going to produce enough charge.
Is an alternator conversion worth it ?
IMO it certainly is. I've done 2, the first because the regulator box had gone chips and it was cheaper to buy a 17ACR alternator from a scrapyard and cobble up a bracket than get a new regulator box ! But with your car the A series engine was used with alternators so all the parts are out there just waiting to go on; I bet you'll be able to buy a complete kit with instructions.
If you're changing from +ve to -ve earthing at the same time then you need to check over the instruments and radio, but usually it's only rev counters that give problems.
Having driven on a dynamo for many a year, they are usually well up to the job. Yes, in winter with the heater fan, headlights etc it is marginal but it should be remembered that alternators really didn't become standard fitment until the mid 1960s and cars still worked before that. Have you checked the voltage regulator and the dynamo output?
Edited by lowdrag on Tuesday 9th November 07:15
Thanks for the ideas everyone! I put the battery on charge last night and it managed to get me to the cinema and back all ok. And to answer your questions since we have had the car (April) i have upgraded the headlights and added the radio. I will be picking the car up tonight from its wheel alignment and give it a few checks with the meter and report back. If it leaves me stranded again though i will stiick a new battery and alternator on it (the alternator kits are only £70 from the usual spares places)
When it was charging last night and i had to go out i also found out the Honda and Kawasaki BOTH would'nt start. Major headache and knackering kicking a bike over constantly for 5-10 minutes. Vehicles hey
ETA
With my quick checks last night the battery when the car was running at tickover was 12V, but at fast idle it was showing 13V. Having a look through the Haynes showed that at low tickover the box disconnects the battery and dynamo to stop the battery discharging through it. More tonight!
When it was charging last night and i had to go out i also found out the Honda and Kawasaki BOTH would'nt start. Major headache and knackering kicking a bike over constantly for 5-10 minutes. Vehicles hey
ETA
With my quick checks last night the battery when the car was running at tickover was 12V, but at fast idle it was showing 13V. Having a look through the Haynes showed that at low tickover the box disconnects the battery and dynamo to stop the battery discharging through it. More tonight!
Edited by lewis s on Tuesday 9th November 07:26
My better half has been using a morris minor with dynamo for 11 years, the answer is to plug it into a trickle charger every night. the dynamo will be fine in normal use. but you may find using everything electrical will take it's toll on the battery by the end of the week. Also as mentioned the batteries will only ever last 2 years or so. buy one with a 3 year warrenty then change it for free after 2 years when it fails. If the dynamo is only pushing our 9v try reving the engine and measuring it again, if it is still 9v then some new brushes will sort it out no doubt, almost as cheap to fit a recon dynamo though. try your local motor factors you will be suprised what they keep in stock.
ARH said:
My better half has been using a morris minor with dynamo for 11 years, the answer is to plug it into a trickle charger every night. the dynamo will be fine in normal use. but you may find using everything electrical will take it's toll on the battery by the end of the week. Also as mentioned the batteries will only ever last 2 years or so. buy one with a 3 year warrenty then change it for free after 2 years when it fails. If the dynamo is only pushing our 9v try reving the engine and measuring it again, if it is still 9v then some new brushes will sort it out no doubt, almost as cheap to fit a recon dynamo though. try your local motor factors you will be suprised what they keep in stock.
dynamo shouldn't be a problem in all honest, brushes cost about £3 if that, and apart from a drop of oil every 6 months for the bush, they should run like a dream, lights usually go dim when idling, you can adjust the output from the control box but generally you'll start boiling batteries dry to you go too high,if you lived nearby (which you dont) you could come and pick one from my stock, i have about 10-15 :S
A good battery, clean and tight electical connections including earths is a must for truoble free winter motoring
Good advice in posts above, personally I prefer an uprated alternator in my car but I also have an electric cooling fan (instead of the engine driven which is especially good for winter use)
A good habit to get into for any car but especially a classic is don't switch off the engine until all electrical items have been switch off and don't start the engine until you've check all electrical items are switch off - only exception to this might be, but I've never had to use it so don't know if it works, if it's minus double digits and a wind chill factor on top then perhaps putting the headlights on for a short while to warm battery a bit before starting trying to start the engine
If your gf is using the car and she doesn't already know (being non-sexist now - and if you know) you should show her how to do the basic car checks (engine oil level being very low on the list) and to keep clear and clean the windows, lights and number plates (especially if reflective, a good idea on a classic that's actually used)
I doubt it as your on this site but it might be that she needs to teach you
(Now I'm not suggesting that you are a youngster) I'm amazed at how many youngsters know next to nothing about the basics of maintaining the car they drive - I firmly blame those parents
Battery related problems are still a major cause of car breakdown call outs and this is the time of year when the unware come a cropper
Only tonight a saw a couple parked up sitting in a car a car park with the headlights on and engine off and still like it when I passed 20 minutes later, good job it's not the middle of last winter
Good advice in posts above, personally I prefer an uprated alternator in my car but I also have an electric cooling fan (instead of the engine driven which is especially good for winter use)
A good habit to get into for any car but especially a classic is don't switch off the engine until all electrical items have been switch off and don't start the engine until you've check all electrical items are switch off - only exception to this might be, but I've never had to use it so don't know if it works, if it's minus double digits and a wind chill factor on top then perhaps putting the headlights on for a short while to warm battery a bit before starting trying to start the engine
If your gf is using the car and she doesn't already know (being non-sexist now - and if you know) you should show her how to do the basic car checks (engine oil level being very low on the list) and to keep clear and clean the windows, lights and number plates (especially if reflective, a good idea on a classic that's actually used)
I doubt it as your on this site but it might be that she needs to teach you
(Now I'm not suggesting that you are a youngster) I'm amazed at how many youngsters know next to nothing about the basics of maintaining the car they drive - I firmly blame those parents
Battery related problems are still a major cause of car breakdown call outs and this is the time of year when the unware come a cropper
Only tonight a saw a couple parked up sitting in a car a car park with the headlights on and engine off and still like it when I passed 20 minutes later, good job it's not the middle of last winter
Edited by SB - Nigel on Tuesday 9th November 18:23
Ok a little update:
I think the battery and dynamo are ok, and we just need to adjust our driving style to suit the car. I also realised today that i still have the starting handle in the boot but completely overlooked this, so apologies to the man in the suit who was pushing me around the petrol station last night
The battery today is showing 12.5V after a good charge, and the dynamo output at tickover was roughly 13V rising to over 20V whilst revving, which fits in well with the Haynes manual. I also checked the current and it is charging at 3A at tickover rising to over 10A at revs. All this seems to point to the fact that it is working all ok and i will just see how it goes now.
ETA Nigel,
Yes we may be youngsters (21 and my gf is 18) but i would class ourselves as far from useless (i did run a TVR for 2 years)
On the Morris i have done quite a few bits including welding and suspension mods. I have tried to teach my girlfriend a few things, and she can currently check oil, tyre pressure, water level, battery level and knows how to check and change fuses.
I think the battery and dynamo are ok, and we just need to adjust our driving style to suit the car. I also realised today that i still have the starting handle in the boot but completely overlooked this, so apologies to the man in the suit who was pushing me around the petrol station last night
The battery today is showing 12.5V after a good charge, and the dynamo output at tickover was roughly 13V rising to over 20V whilst revving, which fits in well with the Haynes manual. I also checked the current and it is charging at 3A at tickover rising to over 10A at revs. All this seems to point to the fact that it is working all ok and i will just see how it goes now.
ETA Nigel,
Yes we may be youngsters (21 and my gf is 18) but i would class ourselves as far from useless (i did run a TVR for 2 years)
On the Morris i have done quite a few bits including welding and suspension mods. I have tried to teach my girlfriend a few things, and she can currently check oil, tyre pressure, water level, battery level and knows how to check and change fuses.
Edited by lewis s on Tuesday 9th November 19:49
I saw you had a TVR so assumed (making an ass out of me) you were not necesarily a youngster and as you're on PH that you were probably not useless with cars and having had a TVR for two years you've probably gained above average experience of cars
Excellent that you've taught your gf about the Minor (it could have been her teaching you) tell her most important under bonnet check is the brake fluid
I admit when I had a Minor for a few days I forgot about the availability of a starting handle until I saw the slot in grille/bumper, can't remember as luckily I never had to use it, but it might be an idea for you both to practice using that too, nice little reserve to fall back on
Putting in a permanent connector for a battery conditioner one that you can easily plug in and out without raising the bonnet could be useful too
I'm jealous of you I was nearly 40 I think before I got my first TVR - I suppose because I spent so much money buying and maintaining other English cars before that
Excellent that you've taught your gf about the Minor (it could have been her teaching you) tell her most important under bonnet check is the brake fluid
I admit when I had a Minor for a few days I forgot about the availability of a starting handle until I saw the slot in grille/bumper, can't remember as luckily I never had to use it, but it might be an idea for you both to practice using that too, nice little reserve to fall back on
Putting in a permanent connector for a battery conditioner one that you can easily plug in and out without raising the bonnet could be useful too
I'm jealous of you I was nearly 40 I think before I got my first TVR - I suppose because I spent so much money buying and maintaining other English cars before that
lewis s said:
The battery today is showing 12.5V after a good charge, and the dynamo output at tickover was roughly 13V rising to over 20V whilst revving, which fits in well with the Haynes manual.
I've not owned a dynamo car, but isn't 20v too high? I thought over 14.5v or so was bad for the battery?SB - Nigel said:
Excellent that you've taught your gf about the Minor (it could have been her teaching you) tell her most important under bonnet check is the brake fluid
Not in a Minor.You'll be there a loooong time trying to check the brake fluid under the bonnet*.
*This could depend upon the particular vintage
Edited by jeremyc on Tuesday 9th November 21:10
I thought the point of the switch from dynamos to alternators was that the latter could get a battery back to full charge a lot quicker. What ever the technology inevitably some people will push things to the limit and then wonder why the battery is flat.
Juggling engine revs, choke, wipers and trying not to breathe on the cold windscreen on a winter morning certainly kept you busy in 'the good old days'!
Juggling engine revs, choke, wipers and trying not to breathe on the cold windscreen on a winter morning certainly kept you busy in 'the good old days'!
jeremyc said:
SB - Nigel said:
Excellent that you've taught your gf about the Minor (it could have been her teaching you) tell her most important under bonnet check is the brake fluid
Not in a Minor.You'll be there a loooong time trying to check the brake fluid under the bonnet*.
*This could depend upon the particular vintage
Under the floor with the type of metal that furs up so you can't get the top off if you leave it too long - yes I couldn't check the brake fluid as I couldn't get the top off and as it wasn't my car I only dare try so much to get it off
I'm not sure how much one of these conditioners would put back in one day but I use one of these , you can plug it directly into the cigarrete lighter on cars that have a non ignition sourced supply (ie permanent) no plugging into the mains , less hassle but you do of course need daylight. I have mine hung up in the garage window , best £15 I ever spent.
Hooli said:
lewis s said:
The battery today is showing 12.5V after a good charge, and the dynamo output at tickover was roughly 13V rising to over 20V whilst revving, which fits in well with the Haynes manual.
I've not owned a dynamo car, but isn't 20v too high? I thought over 14.5v or so was bad for the battery?Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff