The VCC Dating panel.
Discussion
I know there is one or two readers of The Automobile on PH and doubtless there is a veteran car owner or two.
What do we make of the goings on within the VCC, the dismissal of the dating panel and the instatement of the new group?
Seems like a job that is far too important for there to be any room for arguements.
What do we make of the goings on within the VCC, the dismissal of the dating panel and the instatement of the new group?
Seems like a job that is far too important for there to be any room for arguements.
The VCC Dating panel was a very well established group of experts that provided VCC tickets to authenticate the age of vetern cars, a big issue if you have a Brighton car of course. The panel was dismissed by the VCC, a new group, some think is less experienced and knowledgeable, were put in place, some of those have subsequently stood down.
I'm not a member of the VCC, but from the outside looking in, my understanding is that to protect itself from future litigation the VCC disbanded its Dating Commitee (with its wealth of knowledge and expertise) and set up a seperate Limited Company to date eligible cars. The reasoning is that a 1904 (eligible for the London to Brighton) car is worth far more than a 1905 car, even if they're the same make and model.
Fane said:
I'm not a member of the VCC, but from the outside looking in, my understanding is that to protect itself from future litigation the VCC disbanded its Dating Commitee (with its wealth of knowledge and expertise) and set up a seperate Limited Company to date eligible cars. The reasoning is that a 1904 (eligible for the London to Brighton) car is worth far more than a 1905 car, even if they're the same make and model.
I see. But that wouldn't explain the change of membership of the old panel to the new committee?I have followed this story in 'The Automobile', I am not an member of the VCC but understand its importance in the automobile world. I remain mystified as to why on earth the previous dating panel were apparently 'removed from post' by the Committee of VCC. It seemed that the panel were indeed offering an huge depth of experience from its members and their work certainly respected throughout the auto' world. Now that has all changed apparently with consequences of quite serious implications, not least of which is the seemingly very large backward step away from that which went before. I still have to read how on earth the situation has managed to degenerate into the present situation. More importantly, the urgent need of the current situation being resolved quickly and to the satisfaction of its membership and generally to the Veteran car movement throughout the world.I must stress that this is my opinion drawn from my reading in the respected magazine 'The Automobile'.
crankedup said:
I have followed this story in 'The Automobile', I am not an member of the VCC but understand its importance in the automobile world. I remain mystified as to why on earth the previous dating panel were apparently 'removed from post' by the Committee of VCC. It seemed that the panel were indeed offering an huge depth of experience from its members and their work certainly respected throughout the auto' world. Now that has all changed apparently with consequences of quite serious implications, not least of which is the seemingly very large backward step away from that which went before. I still have to read how on earth the situation has managed to degenerate into the present situation. More importantly, the urgent need of the current situation being resolved quickly and to the satisfaction of its membership and generally to the Veteran car movement throughout the world.I must stress that this is my opinion drawn from my reading in the respected magazine 'The Automobile'.
I hoped you'd come along to comment, likewise I am mystified by the situation and hoping that its fixed properly sooner rather than later.Huntsman said:
crankedup said:
I have followed this story in 'The Automobile', I am not an member of the VCC but understand its importance in the automobile world. I remain mystified as to why on earth the previous dating panel were apparently 'removed from post' by the Committee of VCC. It seemed that the panel were indeed offering an huge depth of experience from its members and their work certainly respected throughout the auto' world. Now that has all changed apparently with consequences of quite serious implications, not least of which is the seemingly very large backward step away from that which went before. I still have to read how on earth the situation has managed to degenerate into the present situation. More importantly, the urgent need of the current situation being resolved quickly and to the satisfaction of its membership and generally to the Veteran car movement throughout the world.I must stress that this is my opinion drawn from my reading in the respected magazine 'The Automobile'.
I hoped you'd come along to comment, likewise I am mystified by the situation and hoping that its fixed properly sooner rather than later.crankedup said:
Thought I was going to get told off for an moment! I made an published comment on Prewarcar.com when they highlit detail concerning the VCC. I suggested that perhaps the time is fast approaching the experienced members of VCC may contemplate an breakaway forming VCC Mk 2. The nightmare scenario but something has to give at some point as the longer the problems within, and made so public, last the more damage to VCC credibility will be sustained.
If I remember correctly The Automobile was suggesting that a new organisation be formed solely for the purpose of dating and to leave the VCC as it is, seemed like a sensible solution to me, if anyone is in a position to set up such and organisation and pull together the relevant parties and experts I think its The Automobile.Huntsman said:
crankedup said:
Thought I was going to get told off for an moment! I made an published comment on Prewarcar.com when they highlit detail concerning the VCC. I suggested that perhaps the time is fast approaching the experienced members of VCC may contemplate an breakaway forming VCC Mk 2. The nightmare scenario but something has to give at some point as the longer the problems within, and made so public, last the more damage to VCC credibility will be sustained.
If I remember correctly The Automobile was suggesting that a new organisation be formed solely for the purpose of dating and to leave the VCC as it is, seemed like a sensible solution to me, if anyone is in a position to set up such and organisation and pull together the relevant parties and experts I think its The Automobile.I am a Member of the VCC.
My thougths are just create a 'validaty certificate' so the cars can enter rallies and runs (pre 1918)
If you want a specific date of a car (mainly needed for The Brighton) then pay for it through another specialist.
Leaving the club liable for loses as in the Stanley Mamm racing case is not satisfactory.
The club is there for the enjoyment of the cars and their keepers, not a s profit making organisation.
My thougths are just create a 'validaty certificate' so the cars can enter rallies and runs (pre 1918)
If you want a specific date of a car (mainly needed for The Brighton) then pay for it through another specialist.
Leaving the club liable for loses as in the Stanley Mamm racing case is not satisfactory.
The club is there for the enjoyment of the cars and their keepers, not a s profit making organisation.
Jem0911 said:
I am a Member of the VCC.
My thougths are just create a 'validaty certificate' so the cars can enter rallies and runs (pre 1918)
If you want a specific date of a car (mainly needed for The Brighton) then pay for it through another specialist.
Leaving the club liable for loses as in the Stanley Mamm racing case is not satisfactory.
The club is there for the enjoyment of the cars and their keepers, not a s profit making organisation.
As I previously mentioned I am not an member, but my thoughts, as an enthusiast and owner of vintage cars, that opening the door to individual experts to date cars would be an retrograde step. My concern would be the risk of rouge traders abusing the system, that is forged documents, unreliable sources. My thougths are just create a 'validaty certificate' so the cars can enter rallies and runs (pre 1918)
If you want a specific date of a car (mainly needed for The Brighton) then pay for it through another specialist.
Leaving the club liable for loses as in the Stanley Mamm racing case is not satisfactory.
The club is there for the enjoyment of the cars and their keepers, not a s profit making organisation.
crankedup said:
As I previously mentioned I am not an member, but my thoughts, as an enthusiast and owner of vintage cars, that opening the door to individual experts to date cars would be an retrograde step. My concern would be the risk of rouge traders abusing the system, that is forged documents, unreliable sources.
I quite agree, there is a need for the organisation, be it club or committee or some other form, to be as independant as possible.As mentioned above, the financial and legal issues surrounding cars of 1904 vs 1905 must be carefully considered. Or before you know it a windy but bright November Sunday in Brighton will see the arrival of 500 Ford Cortinas.
Jem0911 said:
The London to Brighton has nothing to do with the club (bar the entrants)
So the club shouldn't date cars soley for that one day a year?
Perhaps that is the attitude that got the veteren car world into the mess its in over dating.So the club shouldn't date cars soley for that one day a year?
While I am very aware that the London to Brighton run is not promoted or organised by the VCC its daft to say that the run is nothing to do with the club, a century of motoring history has the two things inextricably linked.
There is a need for an impartial dating organisation to effectively provide a service to the world of Veteren cars, for many years it was the VCC, it should be the VCC but its not working.
So some other organisation needs to be formed.
Huntsman said:
Jem0911 said:
The London to Brighton has nothing to do with the club (bar the entrants)
So the club shouldn't date cars soley for that one day a year?
Perhaps that is the attitude that got the veteren car world into the mess its in over dating.So the club shouldn't date cars soley for that one day a year?
While I am very aware that the London to Brighton run is not promoted or organised by the VCC its daft to say that the run is nothing to do with the club, a century of motoring history has the two things inextricably linked.
There is a need for an impartial dating organisation to effectively provide a service to the world of Veteren cars, for many years it was the VCC, it should be the VCC but its not working.
So some other organisation needs to be formed.
I also think that The Club should not be left liable for dating errors.
It is really on the 04/05 division that matters financially?
My '13 car has no need for a certificate as there are no real classes on the rallies any more. All I need really is an eligablity certificate to be a 'member' with a qualifing car.
Jem0911 said:
I agree very much.
I also think that The Club should not be left liable for dating errors.
It is really on the 04/05 division that matters financially?
My '13 car has no need for a certificate as there are no real classes on the rallies any more. All I need really is an eligablity certificate to be a 'member' with a qualifing car.
The one single aspect of all this that I think is very important is the 1904 thing for the LBVCR, in mind mind its a lynch pin of historic motoring.I also think that The Club should not be left liable for dating errors.
It is really on the 04/05 division that matters financially?
My '13 car has no need for a certificate as there are no real classes on the rallies any more. All I need really is an eligablity certificate to be a 'member' with a qualifing car.
Huntsman said:
Jem0911 said:
I agree very much.
I also think that The Club should not be left liable for dating errors.
It is really on the 04/05 division that matters financially?
My '13 car has no need for a certificate as there are no real classes on the rallies any more. All I need really is an eligablity certificate to be a 'member' with a qualifing car.
The one single aspect of all this that I think is very important is the 1904 thing for the LBVCR, in mind mind its a lynch pin of historic motoring.I also think that The Club should not be left liable for dating errors.
It is really on the 04/05 division that matters financially?
My '13 car has no need for a certificate as there are no real classes on the rallies any more. All I need really is an eligablity certificate to be a 'member' with a qualifing car.
There needs to be a unconnected dating company where those needing a dated car can pay for a certificate.
The ex dating panel can set it up and take on the liability of risk.
Perhaps an independent dating panel financial supported by an voluntary financial commitment through our clubs, as is already in operation for the group protecting our values, (sorry senior moment on name). I for one would be pleased to support the panel through my various club subscriptions.
crankedup said:
Perhaps an independent dating panel financial supported by an voluntary financial commitment through our clubs, as is already in operation for the group protecting our values, (sorry senior moment on name). I for one would be pleased to support the panel through my various club subscriptions.
Great idea.Which clubs are you thinking of Model specific or The Likes of the VSCC?
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