Recommendations please: Gas-less Mig
Discussion
Okay, Im getting geared up ready to take on my first proper restoration project and am going to need to arm myself with a welder.
Im thinking that for convenience and ease of use its going to be better to go for the gasless migs that are now available.
I would welcome any recommendations / experiences / advice etc on where to purchase and which one - Im looking at the lower end of the price bracket - around the 250 quid mark I guess.
I have already seen that Machine Mart have the obvious advantage of providing some of the extra bits to go with it - which seems to save quite a bit of money when starting out, but is that the best option? (I dont want a hand held mask, I'd prefer to have both hands available).
Thanks in advance.
Im thinking that for convenience and ease of use its going to be better to go for the gasless migs that are now available.
I would welcome any recommendations / experiences / advice etc on where to purchase and which one - Im looking at the lower end of the price bracket - around the 250 quid mark I guess.
I have already seen that Machine Mart have the obvious advantage of providing some of the extra bits to go with it - which seems to save quite a bit of money when starting out, but is that the best option? (I dont want a hand held mask, I'd prefer to have both hands available).
Thanks in advance.
If you are going to be doing a fair bit of welding and want the best quality welds you can achieve then my advice would be not to go for a gasless welder.
To protect the weld from oxidisation an inert gas is required during the welding process. On gasless welders this is built into the wire itself and does not give as clean a weld as the gas machines.
The thickness of steel you can weld is governed by the amperage of the welder and you really don't want anything less than 130amps at the top end. The higher the amp rating the higher the price normaly. Although you should get 130 to 150 amps in your budget.
An arc activated head shield is the best form of eye protection, especialy if you are new to welding. As the name suggests the eyeglass is clear until you strike an arc then it darkens instantly. They cost around £50.
Hope this is of some help.
To protect the weld from oxidisation an inert gas is required during the welding process. On gasless welders this is built into the wire itself and does not give as clean a weld as the gas machines.
The thickness of steel you can weld is governed by the amperage of the welder and you really don't want anything less than 130amps at the top end. The higher the amp rating the higher the price normaly. Although you should get 130 to 150 amps in your budget.
An arc activated head shield is the best form of eye protection, especialy if you are new to welding. As the name suggests the eyeglass is clear until you strike an arc then it darkens instantly. They cost around £50.
Hope this is of some help.
bigblock said:
If you are going to be doing a fair bit of welding and want the best quality welds you can achieve then my advice would be not to go for a gasless welder.
To protect the weld from oxidisation an inert gas is required during the welding process. On gasless welders this is built into the wire itself and does not give as clean a weld as the gas machines.
The thickness of steel you can weld is governed by the amperage of the welder and you really don't want anything less than 130amps at the top end. The higher the amp rating the higher the price normaly. Although you should get 130 to 150 amps in your budget.
An arc activated head shield is the best form of eye protection, especialy if you are new to welding. As the name suggests the eyeglass is clear until you strike an arc then it darkens instantly. They cost around £50.
Hope this is of some help.
This is good advice ^^To protect the weld from oxidisation an inert gas is required during the welding process. On gasless welders this is built into the wire itself and does not give as clean a weld as the gas machines.
The thickness of steel you can weld is governed by the amperage of the welder and you really don't want anything less than 130amps at the top end. The higher the amp rating the higher the price normaly. Although you should get 130 to 150 amps in your budget.
An arc activated head shield is the best form of eye protection, especialy if you are new to welding. As the name suggests the eyeglass is clear until you strike an arc then it darkens instantly. They cost around £50.
Hope this is of some help.
Thanks for the comments chaps.
Part of my dilemma is because I will / could be welding in a drafty environment or possibly outside depending on situation - so thought the gas-less (despite knowing it is perhaps not quite as good as the conventional gas mig) would be the sensible option to begin with - also, the advantage of most of these machines is that they are easily converted to run with gas should I wish to 'upgrade' it at some point as things progress.
Ive taken a course of welding at Leeds uni and am familiar with the reactive welding masks (which we were thankfully allowed to use after having started off with handheld fixed darkness lenses) - and I definately want one of these so I can see what Im doing.
So, with this in mind - what welders would you recommend, and where to buy them from - Im sure there must be offers and deals out there, its just finding them.
Having also tried the Oxy accetaline welding at Leeds, I'd love to be able to have this set up too - but its just not really practical in the space I have, with kids also in and out of the garage, and with the costs associated with hiring the large cylinders etc... shame, cos despite being slower it was far neater and more flexible than the mig.
Part of my dilemma is because I will / could be welding in a drafty environment or possibly outside depending on situation - so thought the gas-less (despite knowing it is perhaps not quite as good as the conventional gas mig) would be the sensible option to begin with - also, the advantage of most of these machines is that they are easily converted to run with gas should I wish to 'upgrade' it at some point as things progress.
Ive taken a course of welding at Leeds uni and am familiar with the reactive welding masks (which we were thankfully allowed to use after having started off with handheld fixed darkness lenses) - and I definately want one of these so I can see what Im doing.
So, with this in mind - what welders would you recommend, and where to buy them from - Im sure there must be offers and deals out there, its just finding them.
Having also tried the Oxy accetaline welding at Leeds, I'd love to be able to have this set up too - but its just not really practical in the space I have, with kids also in and out of the garage, and with the costs associated with hiring the large cylinders etc... shame, cos despite being slower it was far neater and more flexible than the mig.
Strongly suggest you go here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php?s=1a0... and ask the same question.
Lots of good tutorial information on the site as well.
Lots of good tutorial information on the site as well.
V10Mike said:
Strongly suggest you go here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php?s=1a0... and ask the same question.
Lots of good tutorial information on the site as well.
had a quick look here - I will read more tomorrow for more hints tips and recommendations. Lots of good tutorial information on the site as well.
Thanks!
Are there any other people looking to buy at the moment who've done some investigations already? In typical PH fashion, is there likely to be anywhere that may offer a good deal on a 'group-buy' - christmas is just round the corner afterall
The "dont buy gasless" advice is still good notwithstanding your outside welding needs
It is incredibly difficult to get a good flowing weld running with the gasless and I find that by windshielding the localised area as well as can be arranged I generally manage decent shielding with my Argoshield using, Clarke machine (Useless I know for your enquiry, but I would consider a rethink)
Good luck anyway, the more welders there are the better
I think there's a joke in there somewhere but I simply cannot remember it
bill
It is incredibly difficult to get a good flowing weld running with the gasless and I find that by windshielding the localised area as well as can be arranged I generally manage decent shielding with my Argoshield using, Clarke machine (Useless I know for your enquiry, but I would consider a rethink)
Good luck anyway, the more welders there are the better
I think there's a joke in there somewhere but I simply cannot remember it
bill
I have only used gas mig and only on steel and always with CO2. I agree with most of the advice above. The gas mig starts the gas flowing before the wire drive so the area is purged.
A couple of small points - go for a unit with a cooling fan and wheels. Also get a big-bottle adaptor kit. Those little canistors are pretty useless.
A couple of small points - go for a unit with a cooling fan and wheels. Also get a big-bottle adaptor kit. Those little canistors are pretty useless.
Looks like a reasonably resounding thumbups up for the gas mig set up so far then...
Didnt want the hassle and bulk of the big bottles having to be lumped around, and similarly assumed that the little bottles wouldnt last very long.
Looks like Im going to have to investigate the options of getting gas where I am and deciding if I can do that.
So, same question then - whats the best little rig to get. The forum mentioned in an earlier post seemed to be quite keen on the clarke gear from machine mart - but my tutor at Leeds wasnt quite so enamoured. He said he had an italian make home mig but I cant remember the name of it now to see if they offer something suitable.
Whilst on the course we used migs with the huge gas bottles on tap - and also used the Oxy Acetylene gear - But of course with a big industrial set up like that the availability of gas cannisters etc was no problem - nor was the amount of space you had to work in...
I guess the gas-less thing has been brought about for convenience - which is great as long as the results are pretty much on a parr with the gas stuff.
Any more comments of advice gratefully received!
Didnt want the hassle and bulk of the big bottles having to be lumped around, and similarly assumed that the little bottles wouldnt last very long.
Looks like Im going to have to investigate the options of getting gas where I am and deciding if I can do that.
So, same question then - whats the best little rig to get. The forum mentioned in an earlier post seemed to be quite keen on the clarke gear from machine mart - but my tutor at Leeds wasnt quite so enamoured. He said he had an italian make home mig but I cant remember the name of it now to see if they offer something suitable.
Whilst on the course we used migs with the huge gas bottles on tap - and also used the Oxy Acetylene gear - But of course with a big industrial set up like that the availability of gas cannisters etc was no problem - nor was the amount of space you had to work in...
I guess the gas-less thing has been brought about for convenience - which is great as long as the results are pretty much on a parr with the gas stuff.
Any more comments of advice gratefully received!
I have tried the Gasless Mig welding. I will say I am not a good welder. Co2 Mig welding is bad enough, the gasless welding is really only suitable for welding ugly lump of somthing to another ugly lump. The welds look like birds
t.
I also found wire feed speed and ampage harder to set correctly.
t. I also found wire feed speed and ampage harder to set correctly.
A911DOM said:
Didnt want the hassle and bulk of the big bottles having to be lumped around, and similarly assumed that the little bottles wouldnt last very long.
Looks like Im going to have to investigate the options of getting gas where I am and deciding if I can do that.
The little canisters you can buy from Halfords are not very cost effective but that does'nt mean your only alternative is the 5ft bottles. The 3ft bottles are pretty easy to move around and you can get the BOC Argoshield mix which is about £40 a fill and gives very splatter free welds. Looks like Im going to have to investigate the options of getting gas where I am and deciding if I can do that.
clarke 90 en is a cracking little welder. Its great for bodywork and general repair, and will join box section up to about 2mm, but who wants to do any more than that???
They do take a bit of getting used to espeially of you want to run beads..and do take some setting up to get right, but once you get the hang of it they are pretty good, abit over £120 gets you a 90en, or if you have the budget the bigger ones get wheels! Machine mart offer very good prices and are very helpful, think they deliver these days too!
They do take a bit of getting used to espeially of you want to run beads..and do take some setting up to get right, but once you get the hang of it they are pretty good, abit over £120 gets you a 90en, or if you have the budget the bigger ones get wheels! Machine mart offer very good prices and are very helpful, think they deliver these days too!
Well Im completely confused now.
I dont want welds that resemble birds mess in clumps all over my project, nor do I want to be shelling out on gas that will be wafting away down the road. Most of my working will be in a garage, yes there will be the usual drafts, but perhaps I am better to investigate a local supplier of a mid sized gas canister so as not to be using the tiny 'disposable' jobbies that Machine Mart etc usually offer.
Im assuming though that this also makes the process more tricky having to drag the welder and the bottle round the garage.
I see the welding trolleys available - but this is adding further expense to the whole operation again... Why couldnt I have been interested in stone polishing or stamp collecting or something
I dont want welds that resemble birds mess in clumps all over my project, nor do I want to be shelling out on gas that will be wafting away down the road. Most of my working will be in a garage, yes there will be the usual drafts, but perhaps I am better to investigate a local supplier of a mid sized gas canister so as not to be using the tiny 'disposable' jobbies that Machine Mart etc usually offer.
Im assuming though that this also makes the process more tricky having to drag the welder and the bottle round the garage.
I see the welding trolleys available - but this is adding further expense to the whole operation again... Why couldnt I have been interested in stone polishing or stamp collecting or something
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