No trace of dealer
Discussion
Would you buy a car from a dealer who not only has no website, but there seems to be no trace of him anywhere online? I mean zilch, at all, apart from his own adverts which are all on one of the classic cars for sale-type sites. No website is fine, and I can understand that, but there is absolutely no trace of him if I search by name or for either phone number. I'd expect at least some results from business directory type things, or some forum somewhere. He's listed in the phone book, so I can see his home address and his van is parked outside on Google street view, with some classics being worked on in the drive. I'm obviously not going to name him here as that will defeat the whole point of the thread!
Personally, he seems straight up and honest, has a small selection of widely differing cars for sale (not from his home address, and priced from £1,700 to £25,000) and the car seems ok. It needed some recommissioning, but having seen the car both before and after he'd started the work it's obviously been done - I can see the new parts used and that the alloys that were scruffy the first time I saw it have now been refurbished as he promised, etc. I don't get the impression that he's trying to pull a fast one, but there is just a nagging doubt that these days there is always some trace of people or businesses, especially in that line of work. He says he's busy enough that he doesn't need to advertise, and has regular private clients for whom he works, mainly sourcing and selling cars and vans at auction on their behalf, but also other related stuff ("corporate automotive services"). The classics are more of a sideline.
Am I just being paranoid, or does it seem odd?
Personally, he seems straight up and honest, has a small selection of widely differing cars for sale (not from his home address, and priced from £1,700 to £25,000) and the car seems ok. It needed some recommissioning, but having seen the car both before and after he'd started the work it's obviously been done - I can see the new parts used and that the alloys that were scruffy the first time I saw it have now been refurbished as he promised, etc. I don't get the impression that he's trying to pull a fast one, but there is just a nagging doubt that these days there is always some trace of people or businesses, especially in that line of work. He says he's busy enough that he doesn't need to advertise, and has regular private clients for whom he works, mainly sourcing and selling cars and vans at auction on their behalf, but also other related stuff ("corporate automotive services"). The classics are more of a sideline.
Am I just being paranoid, or does it seem odd?
I wouldn't worry about it - just make sure you check the car out as much as you would with any private sale.
Not everyone needs a website to have a business these days, when we started our classic car business it took ages to build up any sort of web presence and very little ever came up on google.
We tried advertising in yellow pages, but the costs far outweighed the amount of traffic it generated, so we mainly used local advertising via flyers, car shows, ebay sales to extend our name.
For any small business the cost of advertising is massive, so if he has found a way of making a living and not having to fork out for this I for one would like to know his secret!
Not everyone needs a website to have a business these days, when we started our classic car business it took ages to build up any sort of web presence and very little ever came up on google.
We tried advertising in yellow pages, but the costs far outweighed the amount of traffic it generated, so we mainly used local advertising via flyers, car shows, ebay sales to extend our name.
For any small business the cost of advertising is massive, so if he has found a way of making a living and not having to fork out for this I for one would like to know his secret!
You seem clued up on the car itself, so no major concern there.
The key thing I'd be asking myself is if he has legal title to the car and consequently will I get legal title if I buy it? Very trickey and a V5 does ensure you get title.
What's his story on how he came buy the car? Does he own it? Is there a paper trail? Can you discuss with previous owner?
ETA- Is it another Bristol? Very nice old wagons, fancy one myself.
The key thing I'd be asking myself is if he has legal title to the car and consequently will I get legal title if I buy it? Very trickey and a V5 does ensure you get title.
What's his story on how he came buy the car? Does he own it? Is there a paper trail? Can you discuss with previous owner?
ETA- Is it another Bristol? Very nice old wagons, fancy one myself.
Edited by Huntsman on Wednesday 12th May 11:31
Edited by Huntsman on Wednesday 12th May 11:32
The story behind the car is that he bought it from a contact in the trade about ten years ago for his father, and is now selling it as his dad doesn't really drive any more. The name in the records and service history for mileage all backs that up. As I say, he seems legit, the car seems honest, he's doing the work that he said would be done within the asking price and I'm very tempted to buy it. There's no hard sell involved - I've driven it twice, once before any work had been done and agin once some had been done. He says the work needs doing anyway before he's prepared to sell it to anyone, so there's no pressure on me to buy it. He's still giving me first refusal once it's ready for sale, without me even putting a deposit down.
It's simply the fact that his workshop is not in the most salubrious of locations and I can find no other record of his work that is giving me any doubt - maybe we are so expecting to be shafted by the motor trade that when we do find a honest and open dealer we suspect it's too good to be true!
Not another Bristol sadly.
It's simply the fact that his workshop is not in the most salubrious of locations and I can find no other record of his work that is giving me any doubt - maybe we are so expecting to be shafted by the motor trade that when we do find a honest and open dealer we suspect it's too good to be true!
Not another Bristol sadly.
Edited by tog on Wednesday 12th May 11:58
tog said:
It's simply the fact that his workshop is not in the most salubrious of locations
You should see the place that the guy who looks after my Cobra works out of, makes Basra look upmarket !!The problem for a lot of smaller repairers and restorers in the motor trade is that many of the newer trading estates don't want to lease premises to them or charge an extortionate rent and so they tend to be exiled to the nether regions.
If the guy seems genuine, has been around for a while and you know where he lives I would'nt worry to much that his workshop is'nt in the best postcode. As other posters have mentioned the most important thing is that the car checks out ok and that you are getting clear title to it.
Is the dealer in the phone book? no entry in the yellow pages or even a hold page for a website would really be ringing alarm bells for me.
I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
However if everything else turns out OK and the car passes an inspection, maybe the negatives could be used as a bargaining tool
ETA:
Just re read the thread and the guy is listed in the phone book, for me that would simply indicate that he's not that bothered about online promotion, which isnt a bad thing
I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
However if everything else turns out OK and the car passes an inspection, maybe the negatives could be used as a bargaining tool
ETA:
Just re read the thread and the guy is listed in the phone book, for me that would simply indicate that he's not that bothered about online promotion, which isnt a bad thing
Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 13th May 00:00
I don't know about this guy but you, as a consumer, have differnt (ie fewer) rights if he is not a trader, particularly IIRC regarding the goods being of "satisfactory quality" . Having said that, my understanding is that if he has any kind of premisis and sells more than a very few cars per year he would be seen as a trader in the eyes of the law anyway.
AndrewW-G said:
Is the dealer in the phone book?
I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
Let me guess...a bloke from Cheshire, sometimes called 'Lord'...specialises in "PMC's"?I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 13th May 00:00
davepoth said:
Huntsman said:
The key thing I'd be asking myself is if he has legal title to the car and consequently will I get legal title if I buy it? Very trickey and a V5 does ensure you get title.
Not true actually. The registered keeper is not automatically the owner in law.ADP68 said:
AndrewW-G said:
Is the dealer in the phone book?
I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
Let me guess...a bloke from Cheshire, sometimes called 'Lord'...specialises in "PMC's"?I know of a specialist dealer who's been convicted of fraud in various shapes and sizes regularly over the past 20 years, simply uses a none geographic phone number and a tiscali email address, any problems with a sale and the punters number is put on a block list and his gates are kept closed!
Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 13th May 00:00
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . all I can say is that the person I'm refering to does live nearby and I'm between Chester and Birkenhead 
Edited by AndrewW-G on Thursday 13th May 18:09
dont think i'd be worried, i'd be quite happy he said he was a trader, as opposed to trying to hide it, if the car checks out i wouldn't be worried, after all commercial premises is expensive, so theres no reason to disbelieve about him doing ok imao. with the extra costs commercial premises adds, he may even have to employ more people, etc etc
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