1978 Rover SD1 2600 Series 1 - My new project car

1978 Rover SD1 2600 Series 1 - My new project car

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Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Sunday 28th February 2010
quotequote all
Hi guys,

I'm pleased to report that I have just rescued a 1978 Rover SD1 Series 1 2600 Auto.



After a tip off from the Rover Club, I responded to this letter:

RoverClub said:
I am writing to enquire if any of your members
would like to have my 1978 mk1 2600.
I have owned this car since 1986 and since 1998 it has sat in my garage.
I would like this car to go to someone who would either restore it or use it for parts
It would need to be taken away asap as I have been given notice on my garage due to
redevelopment. I would hate to scrap this car after keeping it for such a long time
this car is based in se. london.
Well I contacted the owner and arranged to go to see it today!

I had a nightmare this morning as it was raining so much... The (8ft Wide) vehicle trailer belonging to my friend is stored at a farm on grass... It's the first time we've attempted to tow this with my car (BMW 530D Sport Auto) as he has just sold his lorry. Anyhow, on the wet ground my car didnt want to move it more than 10 feet (even with the traction off) before starting to slip. When we eventually gave up and un-hitched the trailer, the car decided to get stuck in the mud in protest! Eventually we got it out but had to head straight to the jet wash as I can't bare the Beemer to be dirty let alone caked in fresh mud! Anyway I headed up to see the car (minus the trailer) but arranged that if the car turned out to be ok, another friend with a recovery lorry will collect it for me and bring it back to Essex (Frinton-on-Sea) hopefully tomorrow, possibly Tuesday.

Anyhow, the car;
It's no way near a show winner and is "cosmetically challenged"!
On inspection though, the car is VERY VERY sound and solid in all the usual rot-spots body-shell wise. The doors are almost perfect (although do appear slightly ripply due to what I put down to some poor flatting of paintwork repairs donkeys years ago). The bootlid is great, Windscreen scuttle is original and as new and the inner wings show only slight signs of surface micro-blistering around their seams but that's being picky. It's never been welded either and was wax-oiled when new, then re-done again in 1986. Bit of bubbling on the rear panel and rear panel seams.

The webasto sunroof looks cool too and is a nice period feature! The interior headlining is dirty and starting to drop. Maybe the dirt is more likely age-discolouration / perishing.

The car would benefit from 2 x Front wings. However we may be able to replace just the wing's arches but if I can get a pair of new wings thebn possibly all the better. Also the rear arches look blown around the edges and require replacement. There was 1 x small hole about 1/2 an inch inside the nearside rear inner valence. There is evidence of a previous dent-repair to the o/s rear quarter as the paint has cracked and crazed and theres some rust around/beneath the rear 1/4 window trims.

The car has a cream(?) leather interior (although this is non-original to the vehicle as is the [black] steering wheel from a Series 2). Does anyone know of a saffron coloured cloth going?!!! The carpets are fair and need a good clean. I am reserving judgement on if they should be replaced (good luck I hear you say!)

The car also has Series 2 Rover Alloys but again as these again are not the originals I think they look nasty on the Series 1 in my opinion (I can not tell you how much I love the retro-ness of the S1 SD1). A pleasent suprise was that the owner has kept the original trims and so I will be looking for a set of steels. He also has the original front number plate (riveted plastic letter type) and the number plate holder (albeit cracked so requires replacing).

The car has 1 previous owner who is still a friend of the current owner.
The original keeper had the vinyl roof fitted when new.
It's starting to lift around the edges but looks ok.

The bumpers and bumper-corners are all good as well.

Anyhow, I was pleased with the car from what I have seen so far and the deal we came up with. The brakes need attention due to being hard (due to standing) but it's been stored without the hand brake on so moves around ok.

The engine sounded sweet as (obviously in desperate need of a full service and dry-out) and it has had electronic ignition fitted. It had no fluid leaks that I could see. The current owner (mechanic/engineer) replaced the head gasket at 60,000 miles and the timing belt at 85,000 miles. All documented! He's a really nice guy.

Anyhow, I think he was pleased that it's going to be running once more... and it will certainly keep me occupied until I find a suitable S1 3500 at least smile

- Anyone got any DIY guides for SD1 brakes?!!!!

Also I need tools; I am hoping to source these second hand.
- can anybody recommend a specification for of a welder to look out for (pros/cons etc)
- can anybody recommend any angle grinders (etc) and other stuff? Obviously I will be replacing sections here an there so intend to be letting in new metal to banish the rust for good (well hopefully for another 32 years!).
...And tips appreciated.

Thanks guys and gals!

Gallen.

More pics below:









Edited by Gallen on Sunday 28th February 20:29

richw_82

992 posts

192 months

Sunday 28th February 2010
quotequote all
Hi Gallen,

I'm glad to see this went to somebody who is going to look after it! I saw it in the SD1 club magazine and wondered if anyone was going to take care of it.

The best thing I can suggest for spares and parts would be to get yourself to the first SD1 spares day of the year, it's held at Rimmer Bros in Lincoln (who are an SD1 parts specialist). You can get most parts over the counter from them if you need them including brand new front wings. I'm just helping my brother fit a pair to his S2 2600S.

Haynes did a separate manual for the smaller engined SD1's (2000, 2300, 2600) and it's not as complex a car as you'd imagine, it's very easy to work on with the exception of a few minor items. The electrics are a relay driven nightmare!

One thing I would suggest is an oil and filter change, immediately. The six cylinder SD1's are swines for camshafts seizing, as they have a single oilway with a relief valve in it feeding the camshaft, which get blocked very easily.

Regards,

Ric

Loose_Cannon

1,593 posts

259 months

Monday 1st March 2010
quotequote all
You Sir are a hero.

Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
Loose_Cannon said:
You Sir are a hero.
...heroic intentions smile

But the poor old thing has been upstaged by a Capri 280 Brooklands that I was offered (and bought) a couple of days after getting it home! frown ...so she's up for sale purely for what she owes me:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C144059/

Edited by Gallen on Monday 15th March 15:01

hidetheelephants

27,409 posts

199 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
richw_82 said:
-snip-

One thing I would suggest is an oil and filter change, immediately. The six cylinder SD1's are swines for camshafts seizing, as they have a single oilway with a relief valve in it feeding the camshaft, which get blocked very easily.

Regards,

Ric
I recall reading about an external oilfeed modification, but cannot remenber where or when? Other obvious mod was drilling the oilway out to enlarge it and fit an extra oil pressure switch with associated warning light. Other than the cam oilfeed, it should be a nice engine being basically a triumph big six.

Oh yeh, and good work fellah!thumbup

Edited by hidetheelephants on Monday 15th March 16:14

RetroCosworth

7,211 posts

210 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
This isn't up for sale again, is it?

http://carandclassic.co.uk/car/C144059/

RB26DETT

2,519 posts

181 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
RetroCosworth said:
This isn't up for sale again, is it?

http://carandclassic.co.uk/car/C144059/
Yup thats certainly the car.

RetroCosworth

7,211 posts

210 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
RB26DETT said:
RetroCosworth said:
This isn't up for sale again, is it?

http://carandclassic.co.uk/car/C144059/
Yup thats certainly the car.
Looks like a bargain thumbup

Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
Yes - See my above post putting in that link to my advert! hehe

Basically I searched for ages for a Series 1 V8. I live in Essex and distance was no object. I even travelled to Portsmouth on a brief description only to discount the "pretty much perfect car" in less than 2 minutes (We got it running for the old guy though and he gave us some champagne! LOL!) - I'm also a member of the SD1 owners club which is how I came accross "BLW".

However as my advert states, I bought this (which is a 2600) but importantly the Series 1. I had it recovered home (long story - which led to some damage as in the description of the ad) and was unexpectedly sent off to Spain for work which scuppered my plans to get it rolling (brakes etc).

Roll forward a week and I recieve an eMail from a colleague informing me of a guy who has a family owned-from-new Capri 280 in Brooklands Green which has covered 62,000 miles. He's had it garage stored for years but was now wanting to get rid of it.

The upside of this was that:
(A)My father and I have done a Capri before
(B)It doesn't need much recommisioning whatsoever and should be on the road VERY soon! (I can't wait!)
(C)It's a "Brooklands" 280 smile

The downside for "BLW" is that she's a 2600 and I really wanted a V8 Series 1 with the retro cloth interior - She has leather (which most people prefer funnily enough but for the Series 1 SD1 for me at least it has to be the cloth!). Anyhow we went and saw the Capri on Saturday morning and bought it there and then. Simply we have to move on "BLW" as the Capri is going to take top priority so the Rover can't sit around. I'm not even attampting to make a profit on it AT ALL (infact I'll probably end up losing) but she's simply up for peanuts to make her a viable project for someone ASAP (I think she deserves it to be fair).

Anyways, if there's ever a genuine reason it's a Capri 280 Brooklands.

I REALLY hope BLW's snapped up as although we aren't "that" short on space I really dont want it getting wet.

Gallen

Edited by Gallen on Monday 15th March 21:09

jith

2,752 posts

221 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
Gallen said:
Yes - See my above post putting in that link to my advert! hehe

Basically I searched for ages for a Series 1 V8. I live in Essex and distance was no object. I even travelled to Portsmouth on a brief description only to discount the "pretty much perfect car" in less than 2 minutes (We got it running for the old guy though and he gave us some champagne! LOL!) - I'm also a member of the SD1 owners club which is how I came accross "BLW".

However as my advert states, I bought this (which is a 2600) but importantly the Series 1. I had it recovered home (long story - which led to some damage as in the description of the ad) and was unexpectedly sent off to Spain for work which scuppered my plans to get it rolling (brakes etc).

Roll forward a week and I recieve an eMail from a colleague informing me of a guy who has a family owned-from-new Capri 280 in Brooklands Green which has covered 62,000 miles. He's had it garage stored for years but was now wanting to get rid of it.

The upside of this was that:
(A)My father and I have done a Capri before
(B)It doesn't need much recommisioning whatsoever and should be on the road VERY soon! (I can't wait!)
(C)It's a "Brooklands" 280 smile

The downside for "BLW" is that she's a 2600 and I really wanted a V8 Series 1 with the retro cloth interior - She has leather (which most people prefer funnily enough but for the Series 1 SD1 for me at least it has to be the cloth!). Anyhow we went and saw the Capri on Saturday morning and bought it there and then. Simply we have to move on "BLW" as the Capri is going to take top priority so the Rover can't sit around. I'm not even attampting to make a profit on it AT ALL (infact I'll probably end up losing) but she's simply up for peanuts to make her a viable project for someone ASAP (I think she deserves it to be fair).

Anyways, if there's ever a genuine reason it's a Capri 280 Brooklands.

I REALLY hope BLW's snapped up as although we aren't "that" short on space I really dont want it getting wet.

Gallen

Edited by Gallen on Monday 15th March 21:09
Believe me Gallen, you've done yourself a favour. I used to do warranty work on the 2300 and 2600 when they were new, and they were absolute dogs; a desperately flawed engine, and a dreadful auto 'box.

The Brooklands Capri is arguably the best of them all.

hidetheelephants

27,409 posts

199 months

Monday 15th March 2010
quotequote all
jith said:
Believe me Gallen, you've done yourself a favour. I used to do warranty work on the 2300 and 2600 when they were new, and they were absolute dogs; a desperately flawed engine, and a dreadful auto 'box.

The Brooklands Capri is arguably the best of them all.
Interesting; what were the usual flaws, and do you attribute them to poor design or poor quality control/build quality? Surprising given it's lineage from the Standard-Triumph I6 which is a real workhorse and smooth with it.

jith

2,752 posts

221 months

Tuesday 16th March 2010
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
jith said:
Believe me Gallen, you've done yourself a favour. I used to do warranty work on the 2300 and 2600 when they were new, and they were absolute dogs; a desperately flawed engine, and a dreadful auto 'box.

The Brooklands Capri is arguably the best of them all.
Interesting; what were the usual flaws, and do you attribute them to poor design or poor quality control/build quality? Surprising given it's lineage from the Standard-Triumph I6 which is a real workhorse and smooth with it.
To be honest, I don't know where to start.

I'm doing this from memory so please excuse any errors, although I have clear memories of the raging tempers of some of the customers!

This engine was developed over a period of several years, and the designers were plagued by corporate decision changes from the BL board as to what the engine would be used for and who would get it, e.g. Rover, Triumph or any other interested parties. The result would probably have won the award for the most changed engine design in history. This is yet another example of the totally destructive and negative influence of British Leyland.

At the end of all of this, the engine still came out flawed. It had a four bearing crank. Why the hell did they do that, absolute madness. The cylinder head design was based on the Dolomite but, being much longer it had different inherent problems.

The head is of split design, the valves being in the lower half and the cam and rockers in the top, and it is belt driven. The problem with this is that the top housing has to be dead accurately located and rigidly stressed. This was facilitated by locating the head to the block with two steel dowels, and similarly the cam housing to the head. We had two cars in one week that blew head gaskets, and when we removed the heads, there was only one dowel in each section allowing both the head and the cam housing to float.

BL wouldn't pay for new engines so we renewed the gaskets and replaced the missing dowels. One car was OK, but the other was back in a couple of weeks with a seized cam and broken timing belt.

These engines regularly seized the cam, they leaked oil from the cam housing, the AED unit frequently went full rich, the exhaust manifolds leaked at the head joint, they were metal to metal. That I found incredible; the head was alloy and the manifold cast iron; no gasket and wildly different expansion rates!

In '79 I took in a SD1 V8 in a trade in. It was one of the very early cars and had done an extremely low mileage. My dad spotted it and he ended up keeping it for a good few years. It was very rapid and reliable, but was plagued by minor faults all caused by poor quality control. When I finally eliminated most of these it was a good car, but the heart of it was the engine. When you own and drive a V8 Rover, you wonder what in god's name possessed them to design and fit the 6 cylinder; there is simply no comparison.

hidetheelephants

27,409 posts

199 months

Tuesday 16th March 2010
quotequote all
jith said:
hidetheelephants said:
jith said:
Believe me Gallen, you've done yourself a favour. I used to do warranty work on the 2300 and 2600 when they were new, and they were absolute dogs; a desperately flawed engine, and a dreadful auto 'box.

The Brooklands Capri is arguably the best of them all.
Interesting; what were the usual flaws, and do you attribute them to poor design or poor quality control/build quality? Surprising given it's lineage from the Standard-Triumph I6 which is a real workhorse and smooth with it.
To be honest, I don't know where to start.

I'm doing this from memory so please excuse any errors, although I have clear memories of the raging tempers of some of the customers!

This engine was developed over a period of several years, and the designers were plagued by corporate decision changes from the BL board as to what the engine would be used for and who would get it, e.g. Rover, Triumph or any other interested parties. The result would probably have won the award for the most changed engine design in history. This is yet another example of the totally destructive and negative influence of British Leyland.

At the end of all of this, the engine still came out flawed. It had a four bearing crank. Why the hell did they do that, absolute madness. The cylinder head design was based on the Dolomite but, being much longer it had different inherent problems.

The head is of split design, the valves being in the lower half and the cam and rockers in the top, and it is belt driven. The problem with this is that the top housing has to be dead accurately located and rigidly stressed. This was facilitated by locating the head to the block with two steel dowels, and similarly the cam housing to the head. We had two cars in one week that blew head gaskets, and when we removed the heads, there was only one dowel in each section allowing both the head and the cam housing to float.

BL wouldn't pay for new engines so we renewed the gaskets and replaced the missing dowels. One car was OK, but the other was back in a couple of weeks with a seized cam and broken timing belt.

These engines regularly seized the cam, they leaked oil from the cam housing, the AED unit frequently went full rich, the exhaust manifolds leaked at the head joint, they were metal to metal. That I found incredible; the head was alloy and the manifold cast iron; no gasket and wildly different expansion rates!

In '79 I took in a SD1 V8 in a trade in. It was one of the very early cars and had done an extremely low mileage. My dad spotted it and he ended up keeping it for a good few years. It was very rapid and reliable, but was plagued by minor faults all caused by poor quality control. When I finally eliminated most of these it was a good car, but the heart of it was the engine. When you own and drive a V8 Rover, you wonder what in god's name possessed them to design and fit the 6 cylinder; there is simply no comparison.
My flabber is ghasted, although as you point out it's BL at its schizoid best; it's not like they hadn't done OHC before with a modicum of success, the E series in the Allegro was reasonably bulletproof if somewhat coarse, and had already been produced in I6 form for the Aussie market. Imagine the meeting,'We need a 2.6 OHC engine; shall we use the 2.6 those BMC oiks are building in the Antipodes, or shall we spend money we can ill-afford redrawing the Triumph 6 for OHC?' Answers on a postcard please.

Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Tuesday 16th March 2010
quotequote all
The Capri has now arrived!

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Rover's still here and (contrary to above) running sweetly!

Lads - it's a snip at £295 (open to genuine offers) as it's just a little more than scrap value for an SD1 frown
Must be someone out there who wants her? If it doesn't go I'll consider just getting it patched up for the MOT and just use it! The boys'll love going to the pub a-la-Sweeney-Style! ...Whatever happens it's certainly not crossing the weigh bridge.

Enjoy the Capri pics! smile

Kind regards,

Gallen.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 16th March 21:34

RetroCosworth

7,211 posts

210 months

Tuesday 16th March 2010
quotequote all
If I could insure that beauty at 18, I would take her off her.

Realisticly, I don't think I'll be able to frown.

Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
quotequote all
More pictures taken today. The original pics were at the lockup where she was found and don't really say or show much.

The new ones (64 in total) have been taken today:

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f172/geri_allen/...

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f172/geri_allen/...

enjoy.

Gallen.

Edited by Gallen on Saturday 20th March 18:26

A911DOM

4,084 posts

241 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
quotequote all
RetroCosworth said:
If I could insure that beauty at 18, I would take her off her.

Realisticly, I don't think I'll be able to frown.
I cant see it being a problem through classic insurance!? I know some companies wont insure you young whippersnappers on classic until you get a bit older, but Im sure you'd find one or two of them that'd be happy to take you on!

Its not like these older cars (even with a relatively big engine) are particularly fast, and they arent the most attractive things to steal either!

If you fancy it, give a couple of insurance companies or brokers a call, then get yourself a bargain barge!

RetroCosworth

7,211 posts

210 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
quotequote all
A911DOM said:
RetroCosworth said:
If I could insure that beauty at 18, I would take her off her.

Realisticly, I don't think I'll be able to frown.
I cant see it being a problem through classic insurance!? I know some companies wont insure you young whippersnappers on classic until you get a bit older, but Im sure you'd find one or two of them that'd be happy to take you on!

Its not like these older cars (even with a relatively big engine) are particularly fast, and they arent the most attractive things to steal either!

If you fancy it, give a couple of insurance companies or brokers a call, then get yourself a bargain barge!
I haven't spoken to you for quite a while Dom.

I'm sure it could work with limited mileage, but my main concern would be the fact that its a 6 cylinder rather than an inline four.

Also, could I cope with an autobox? scratchchin

Gallen

Original Poster:

2,162 posts

261 months

Saturday 20th March 2010
quotequote all
RetroCosworth said:
I'm sure it could work with limited mileage, but my main concern would be the fact that its a 6 cylinder rather than an inline four.

Also, could I cope with an autobox? scratchchin
My 230BHP Henstead Starion cost £220 a year fully comp through Peter Best insurance. thumbup

Do bare in mind it's an old car and would need to be treated gently. Being an Auto I doubt it'd be the fastest old bus and so if you want something to thrash the pants off it's probably not right for it - but if you wanted something for an occasional bit of retro-fun and that will turn a few heads, inspiring some Petrol station chit-chat ....fill your boots! smile

Gallen!

Edited by Gallen on Saturday 20th March 20:34