Specialist oil... Is it worth it?
Discussion
Just spent the best part of £50 buying 10 litres of penrites 20w50. Is it worth buying an oil like this for use in a classic or could I get away with just a basic oil. Saw a 20w50 oil in Wilkinsons described as 'Mineral based, for use in higher mileage cars, where premium/speciality oils are no longer required' which is £6 for 5litres. Is it worth spending the extra(in my case for a common garden MGB GT that doesn't get looked after as well as it should)?
20/50 is fine for your B, it always pays to buy decent oil in the long run, but as 20/50 is not always readily available these days my old land Rover gets what its given. Some oils include additives to prevent wear in older engines so as long as you opt for a recognised brand you should be fine.
if you are that concerned drop Opieoilman a line, he's very helpful.
if you are that concerned drop Opieoilman a line, he's very helpful.
chard said:
I'm also interested in opinions, I use Halfords Classic (about £22 for 5 LTS I think) I feel Suspicious of the vey cheap stuff. £50 however seems a lot.
Well thats for ten litres (2x5 litre containers) at something like 23.95 each. so not a milion miles from what you pay. I'm just wondering If it is worth it, or if the cheap stuff will do the job, just as well.
I've always used Millers Classic Sport semi synth in my Alfa's. It's no more expensive than other premium Oils and seems to do the job well. My Engines get driven very hard in competition use if it was purely a road car I might use the Classic 20-50 which is a mineral Oil, rather than the classic sport, (Synthetic).
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
Edited by velocemitch on Monday 8th February 20:21
Edited by velocemitch on Monday 8th February 20:22
It's something that I wonder about to. I remember all the rumours from the 70s/80s about how cheap oils were poor quality, sometimes recycled oils, no additives, how they readily lost their viscosity with use, etc.
But with the increasing cost/scarcity of 20/50s I'm taking another view and looking at both the £5/gallon stuff from places like Wilkinsons & Tesco and also considering using a premium 10/40 as well for the next oil change. (I used Mobil 10/50 for years until it became scarce, so I'm not concerned about the lower cold viscosity with the engines)
Looking at a few labels, they seem to have SAE gradings these days, not the same as the synthetics obviously, but I'd guess that this is a better quality than the cheap multigrade oils of the 60s/70s ? I'm not expecting the same standards as a modern premium 20/50, but I very much doubt that engines in the 50s/60s were designed with modern oils in mind.
Thinking back, some engines from the 60s quoted winter and summer oils (SAE 30 usually) with changes every 3000 miles, and I'm sure the arrival of multigrades was more to do away with the summer/winter oil changes than as an essential design requirement.
So, it does make me wonder if a modern cheap oil or Halfords 10w/40w would suffice on a classic that isn't in daily use up and down the motorways ?
But with the increasing cost/scarcity of 20/50s I'm taking another view and looking at both the £5/gallon stuff from places like Wilkinsons & Tesco and also considering using a premium 10/40 as well for the next oil change. (I used Mobil 10/50 for years until it became scarce, so I'm not concerned about the lower cold viscosity with the engines)
Looking at a few labels, they seem to have SAE gradings these days, not the same as the synthetics obviously, but I'd guess that this is a better quality than the cheap multigrade oils of the 60s/70s ? I'm not expecting the same standards as a modern premium 20/50, but I very much doubt that engines in the 50s/60s were designed with modern oils in mind.
Thinking back, some engines from the 60s quoted winter and summer oils (SAE 30 usually) with changes every 3000 miles, and I'm sure the arrival of multigrades was more to do away with the summer/winter oil changes than as an essential design requirement.
So, it does make me wonder if a modern cheap oil or Halfords 10w/40w would suffice on a classic that isn't in daily use up and down the motorways ?
As a Jaguar man since I can't remember when, I used Duckham's for years but it isn't available in France so I buy any old 20/50 from the supermarket. Cheap and cheerful but does the job. Never had an engine problem anyway and one engine is running towards 80,000 and still virtually no oil consumption.
£1.85 a gallon from morrisons!
Runs fine in my midget, as my dad pointed out it, GTX magnatech didnt exist 30 years ago, and you'd still be better off changing the oil once a month at £2 a go than shelling out £30 for the expensive stuff.
At the end of the day expensive oil is still just oil.
Runs fine in my midget, as my dad pointed out it, GTX magnatech didnt exist 30 years ago, and you'd still be better off changing the oil once a month at £2 a go than shelling out £30 for the expensive stuff.
At the end of the day expensive oil is still just oil.
ELAN+2 said:
I use valvoline racing 20/50 in my Loti, cheap £3 a gallon supermarket oil didnt like the darkness inside my Spitfires crankcase (at least I assume that was why something was knocking to be let out!!)
cheapoil is a false economy in any engine
I'd be interested to know why. My garage recommend Valvoline but it isn't available here and both race cars use quite a large quantity of oil, so in fact an oil change isn't really necessary very often. However, they have also said that if Valvoline isn't available then any mineral 20/50 will do, which I have found to be the case. I've certainly found no ill effects and that after 12,000 hard miles in one of the cars.cheapoil is a false economy in any engine
Look for the oil's API rating.
That will tell you how good the oil actually is. For an MGB an API rating of SG is better than anything that was available when the engine was brand new, so it will be quite adequate. SG was the standard in 1979 or thereabouts. The current standard is SL or possibly even SM by now.
If you are using the car for competition, then a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil is the way to go.
James
That will tell you how good the oil actually is. For an MGB an API rating of SG is better than anything that was available when the engine was brand new, so it will be quite adequate. SG was the standard in 1979 or thereabouts. The current standard is SL or possibly even SM by now.
If you are using the car for competition, then a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil is the way to go.
James
velocemitch said:
I've always used Millers Classic Sport semi synth in my Alfa's. It's no more expensive than other premium Oils and seems to do the job well. My Engines get driven very hard in competition use if it was purely a road car I might use the Classic 20-50 which is a mineral Oil, rather than the classic sport, (Synthetic).
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
From a trade point,I use Millers in all my road/ race engines and servicing.http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers_frame_CLASSIC.htm
Edited by velocemitch on Monday 8th February 20:21
Edited by velocemitch on Monday 8th February 20:22
It`s a very good oil for general use, competition/ with transmission formulations aswell. These cheaper oils do not contain the additives the more expensive oils have. One particular additive prevents excess cam and follower wear, as pointed out on the Millers website.Check it out
The cheaper alternative additives will most certainly shorten the life of your valve train, especially on pushrod engines.You only get what you pay for don`t forget.
Agreed you pay a % for the branding,but its up to you to do the research on the oil formulation.Just because it come from the one refinery, does not mean it has the same specification as Halfords oils for example.
Morris oils do a selection of classic lubricants I used the 20/50 seems excellent (I checked specs against other more expensive alternatives before buying) @ £15 for 5 litres, they have a very good reputation and are local to me (although I managed to buy slightly cheaper at a motor factors)
[quote]Funny thing is that the classic oils are the ones with the fewest additives in. Generally my cars tend to leak or burn so much oil it gets cycled through in about 1500 miles so I'm not particularly bothered.
[/quote]
Mines about the same, reckon I get through about 5ml/mile, so about 200 miles between the dip stick marks, 1000miles to burn off an entire engine full. No idea where it goes, there's no evidence of it burning it, no patches under the car, must be either dripping through the exhaust valve guides.
'New' midget engine £1000 (presume this means the MGOC replaces/conditions everything, some places will just rebuild them for a flat fee of £600 which I presume is just a rebuild as nececary)
5l at the change + 3l lost in between,
@ £5/l,
60,000 miles = £800
@ £0.40/l
60,000 miles = £64
Assuming the car will last 60,000 miles between needing an entire engine rebuild, I'm just about even. The expensive oil would have to effectively give me unlimited mileage from an engine to be worthwhile!
And that's before we admit that the triumph 1500 engine is shockingly bad, and fit a 1.4 k-series from a donor car rather than forking out for a new engine.
[/quote]
Mines about the same, reckon I get through about 5ml/mile, so about 200 miles between the dip stick marks, 1000miles to burn off an entire engine full. No idea where it goes, there's no evidence of it burning it, no patches under the car, must be either dripping through the exhaust valve guides.
'New' midget engine £1000 (presume this means the MGOC replaces/conditions everything, some places will just rebuild them for a flat fee of £600 which I presume is just a rebuild as nececary)
5l at the change + 3l lost in between,
@ £5/l,
60,000 miles = £800
@ £0.40/l
60,000 miles = £64
Assuming the car will last 60,000 miles between needing an entire engine rebuild, I'm just about even. The expensive oil would have to effectively give me unlimited mileage from an engine to be worthwhile!
And that's before we admit that the triumph 1500 engine is shockingly bad, and fit a 1.4 k-series from a donor car rather than forking out for a new engine.
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