Classic Vehicle Pre- Sale Checks
Discussion
Hi all,
Finally all the years of sniffing petrol has gone to my head, and I'm about to start a company providing pre- sale checks (called the Classic Status Report or CSR) for classic cars. If you would like to help me out (and get a 10% discount on a CSR on product launch) click on the link below to fill out my survey!
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PL8H59W
Thanks!
John
Finally all the years of sniffing petrol has gone to my head, and I'm about to start a company providing pre- sale checks (called the Classic Status Report or CSR) for classic cars. If you would like to help me out (and get a 10% discount on a CSR on product launch) click on the link below to fill out my survey!
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PL8H59W
Thanks!
John
I've been doing this for years, and will offer a couple of observations if I may:
1) The majority of classic car buyers know what they're buying, and have done the research (they are enthusiasts, after all), and therefore don't require this service.
2) At most of the price points mentioned in your survey you won't even cover your costs
3) When you talk about being able to check the originality of the car, you need to think about your liability in making such judgements.
4) You also talk about having the check carried out by somebody who knows the car (I assume you mean the make and model). In most cases, I'll bet they won't.
I don't want to piss on your chips, and I sincerely wish you the best with it, but there's a reason why this isn't big business. You haven't discovered a new niche in the market.
PJ
1) The majority of classic car buyers know what they're buying, and have done the research (they are enthusiasts, after all), and therefore don't require this service.
2) At most of the price points mentioned in your survey you won't even cover your costs
3) When you talk about being able to check the originality of the car, you need to think about your liability in making such judgements.
4) You also talk about having the check carried out by somebody who knows the car (I assume you mean the make and model). In most cases, I'll bet they won't.
I don't want to piss on your chips, and I sincerely wish you the best with it, but there's a reason why this isn't big business. You haven't discovered a new niche in the market.
PJ
Hello,
Two comments to make :
A- I think Doofus is correct. Most old car (Ooops sorry, Classic Car) enthusiasts do know their stuff ~ possibly one make/series of car anoraks.
B- I used to live in Cheshire, so viewing a car was normally not a problem. Pretty central to most of England / Wales.
I recently moved to Aberdeen due to my work and in moving, decided to sell my Austin Healey 100/6 with the intention of buying a 3000 later
I have recently noticed, a bit too late possibly, that there are not many Austin Healy's for sale in Scotland. Very few in fact.
So, should I find a highly suitable car , probably down South and after the relevant telephone calls and exchange of photographs, I may be tempted to use a Pre-sales Check engineer who lives nearer to said car than I do.
Doofus makes another good point though. Who will be the “expert” on that particular car?
No disrespect, but in the same vein if you like, an MOT is only as good as the day it was done.
Sam
Two comments to make :
A- I think Doofus is correct. Most old car (Ooops sorry, Classic Car) enthusiasts do know their stuff ~ possibly one make/series of car anoraks.
B- I used to live in Cheshire, so viewing a car was normally not a problem. Pretty central to most of England / Wales.
I recently moved to Aberdeen due to my work and in moving, decided to sell my Austin Healey 100/6 with the intention of buying a 3000 later
I have recently noticed, a bit too late possibly, that there are not many Austin Healy's for sale in Scotland. Very few in fact.
So, should I find a highly suitable car , probably down South and after the relevant telephone calls and exchange of photographs, I may be tempted to use a Pre-sales Check engineer who lives nearer to said car than I do.
Doofus makes another good point though. Who will be the “expert” on that particular car?
No disrespect, but in the same vein if you like, an MOT is only as good as the day it was done.
Sam
We do the occassional body & paint PPI on Ferrari's................& here I should stress BODY & PAINT...................we know most of the models pretty well; BUT there is always something to suprise one. Yes it's fairly easy to tell if something has been quickly bodged over, but (without wishing to sound 'up one's own behind' here) the higher the value of the car the more likelyhood there is of something being VERY carefully hidden as there is consequently more money to be made by the seller.
So, a couple of main things to note of import here.......................
1) Be VERY careful indeed of your liability position.
2) Be VERY careful about whom you employ & on what basis to carry out inspections - the number of unscrupulous people with an agenda VASTLY exceeds the number of genuine, skilled & knowledgable guys out there.
3) Be totally clear & honest with the customer about PRECISELY what is covered & what is not, discuss their expectations or state IN DETAIL BUT NOT IN SMALL PRINT exactly what you are doing for the money & why your service is THE one to go for.
4) No matter what someone represents themselves as, there is not a single person that has all of the knowledge in all areas (believe me - I've had plenty working for me that say 'Yeah, worked on dozens of these mate, know 'em inside out' & then, clearly, have no basic idea!).
In theory the business appears workable at the mid price level, but get one of the above wrong on one occassion & it can fail catastrophically.
I hope this helps? If there are any references etc you'd like to chat about then please feel free to email me.
ATB & good luck, Al.
So, a couple of main things to note of import here.......................
1) Be VERY careful indeed of your liability position.
2) Be VERY careful about whom you employ & on what basis to carry out inspections - the number of unscrupulous people with an agenda VASTLY exceeds the number of genuine, skilled & knowledgable guys out there.
3) Be totally clear & honest with the customer about PRECISELY what is covered & what is not, discuss their expectations or state IN DETAIL BUT NOT IN SMALL PRINT exactly what you are doing for the money & why your service is THE one to go for.
4) No matter what someone represents themselves as, there is not a single person that has all of the knowledge in all areas (believe me - I've had plenty working for me that say 'Yeah, worked on dozens of these mate, know 'em inside out' & then, clearly, have no basic idea!).
In theory the business appears workable at the mid price level, but get one of the above wrong on one occassion & it can fail catastrophically.
I hope this helps? If there are any references etc you'd like to chat about then please feel free to email me.
ATB & good luck, Al.
Interesting...
after owning lots of old cars I'm interested in how this will work.
I have only ever bought one expensive, complex but oldish car that I had inspected. My Boxster. I paid a lot (£400?) for the inspection because the cost of a repair would be a lot and I wouldn't spot faults. I used a well known Porsche specialist who spent 3 hours with the car and gave a very detailed report.
When I buy an old, cheap simple car, like my Midget, I would recon to be able to spot anything worth worrying about myself and would be willing to take a risk because things are easily and fairly cheaply repaired or replaced.
However, I live in Norfolk which means that I am along way from most cars. I asked the chap to inspect the Boxster rather than traveling over first, giving it the best check I could then asking him to do the inspection. This saved time but could have been expensive had it been a duffer. If I was buying something simple like another Midget a cheap report might be worth doing to save me traveling down to see a duff car and give a little piece of mind.
If I was looking at a car on Ebay or similar then a report that went a bit futhur than a MOT would definately give me confidence to bid or buy unseen but I would want some kind of redress should I buy the car and it turn out to be far from as described. The Porsche report was very clear that it didn't offer any kind of warranty but he had built up an international reputation he wouldn't want to lose.
If I was young / inexpieiced / risk averse I might want your services too.
Another area to explore: I bought a car unseen over the internet. When it was delivered it turned out to be a disaster and totally not as described. For a while it looked like we would go to court. By this point I had several inspections where I simply showed them the description and asked if they thought the car, in their opinion, was close to the car.
If I were you I would concentrate the last 3 paragraphs.
Good luck with it! I hope it goes well.
after owning lots of old cars I'm interested in how this will work.
I have only ever bought one expensive, complex but oldish car that I had inspected. My Boxster. I paid a lot (£400?) for the inspection because the cost of a repair would be a lot and I wouldn't spot faults. I used a well known Porsche specialist who spent 3 hours with the car and gave a very detailed report.
When I buy an old, cheap simple car, like my Midget, I would recon to be able to spot anything worth worrying about myself and would be willing to take a risk because things are easily and fairly cheaply repaired or replaced.
However, I live in Norfolk which means that I am along way from most cars. I asked the chap to inspect the Boxster rather than traveling over first, giving it the best check I could then asking him to do the inspection. This saved time but could have been expensive had it been a duffer. If I was buying something simple like another Midget a cheap report might be worth doing to save me traveling down to see a duff car and give a little piece of mind.
If I was looking at a car on Ebay or similar then a report that went a bit futhur than a MOT would definately give me confidence to bid or buy unseen but I would want some kind of redress should I buy the car and it turn out to be far from as described. The Porsche report was very clear that it didn't offer any kind of warranty but he had built up an international reputation he wouldn't want to lose.
If I was young / inexpieiced / risk averse I might want your services too.
Another area to explore: I bought a car unseen over the internet. When it was delivered it turned out to be a disaster and totally not as described. For a while it looked like we would go to court. By this point I had several inspections where I simply showed them the description and asked if they thought the car, in their opinion, was close to the car.
If I were you I would concentrate the last 3 paragraphs.
Good luck with it! I hope it goes well.
There appears to be a raft of problems here.
1) How wide an area are you considering? Travel time will be an issue, as will coverage.
2) How do you intend to have specialists do the work? The range of potential vehicles will be massive. Why wouldn't I just get a marque specialist in the area to look at my car, rather than your firm? How do you work round this problem?
3) Liabilities and guarantees. Who is doing the work? What is their experience? What happens if they screw up? Even if you offer guarantees, what are they worth - especially so since your firm is a start-up. Look at insurance (professional liability cover) otherwise your firm could end up on the wrong end of a law-suit and paying a lot of cash out. But equally, in order for an insurance firm to cover you, you'd better show why they aren't likely to pay out.
4) Buying classic cars is usually a seasonal activity. Much of it will be undertaken in the summer, and little in the winter. Can you make enough in the summer to make it work?
5) The AA & RAC offer similar services
6) How will you market things? Can you make it work?
7) Finance costs & business models - do you have finance in order; what are the projections for the business?
1) How wide an area are you considering? Travel time will be an issue, as will coverage.
2) How do you intend to have specialists do the work? The range of potential vehicles will be massive. Why wouldn't I just get a marque specialist in the area to look at my car, rather than your firm? How do you work round this problem?
3) Liabilities and guarantees. Who is doing the work? What is their experience? What happens if they screw up? Even if you offer guarantees, what are they worth - especially so since your firm is a start-up. Look at insurance (professional liability cover) otherwise your firm could end up on the wrong end of a law-suit and paying a lot of cash out. But equally, in order for an insurance firm to cover you, you'd better show why they aren't likely to pay out.
4) Buying classic cars is usually a seasonal activity. Much of it will be undertaken in the summer, and little in the winter. Can you make enough in the summer to make it work?
5) The AA & RAC offer similar services
6) How will you market things? Can you make it work?
7) Finance costs & business models - do you have finance in order; what are the projections for the business?
Many thanks for all the comments above, and the fifty-odd people who have taken the survey so far. I've had some really interesting comments which will undoubtedly help to make the product better.
All the posters above highlight some really interesting concerns too, which I have been trying to rectify over the last 6 months or so, and I believe I have a plan which does so. It is quite an unusual idea, so I hope you will all bear with me, as I don't want it exposed yet until I am ready to launch (due beginning April 2010).
John
All the posters above highlight some really interesting concerns too, which I have been trying to rectify over the last 6 months or so, and I believe I have a plan which does so. It is quite an unusual idea, so I hope you will all bear with me, as I don't want it exposed yet until I am ready to launch (due beginning April 2010).
John
TomJS said:
5) The AA & RAC offer similar services
I have used one of these organisations, obviously I'm not saying which, on a few occasions, admittedly not for this exact service, but on my past experience would not touch them with a bargepole for advice on what to buy. You have no competition there.It doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet (unless I missed it) but most one make clubs offer such a service anyway. Usually there is one person for each model and they are very knowledgeable about their speciality. I always recommend people to join the respective club specialising in the car they are after and get to know people who can quite often point you in the direction of a well-known car for sale.
I totally agree with many of the points raised above, especially the liability issue. For example, if there are two cars with the same chassis number (many a D-type for example in days gone by) which has the right to the chassis? This could be one very big liability issue if you stick your neck out. Yes, probably you won't be moving in such ethereal markets but verifying a car's history and credibility is an absolute minefield. If you are just checking out the general condition of the car, well, that isn't sometimes too difficult but I'm not sure yet if the miscreants have found a way to get a magnet to stick to filler!
I totally agree with many of the points raised above, especially the liability issue. For example, if there are two cars with the same chassis number (many a D-type for example in days gone by) which has the right to the chassis? This could be one very big liability issue if you stick your neck out. Yes, probably you won't be moving in such ethereal markets but verifying a car's history and credibility is an absolute minefield. If you are just checking out the general condition of the car, well, that isn't sometimes too difficult but I'm not sure yet if the miscreants have found a way to get a magnet to stick to filler!
http://classicstatusreport.com/
They've sponsored my exploits for 2010 and were on the front of one of the classic papers the other week.
See them at various classic shows and events this summer too.
They've sponsored my exploits for 2010 and were on the front of one of the classic papers the other week.
See them at various classic shows and events this summer too.
Hi all,
Thanks BMWchris- the website is now fully live as of last week when we launched at the Bristol Classic Car Show.
Sorry I didn't respond to the earlier questions- all fair comments- but I didn't want to expose the different way we were going to do business until we launched- all is explained on the website. Basically, the checks are done by established good quality classic car restoration businesses across the UK. We have good coverage, and are receiving more sign-ups every day.
So far we've had an excellent response from enthusiasts, owners clubs, magazines and insurers.
Thanks again to all of the people who carried out the survey- really appreciated and it really helped to develop the product.
John
Thanks BMWchris- the website is now fully live as of last week when we launched at the Bristol Classic Car Show.
Sorry I didn't respond to the earlier questions- all fair comments- but I didn't want to expose the different way we were going to do business until we launched- all is explained on the website. Basically, the checks are done by established good quality classic car restoration businesses across the UK. We have good coverage, and are receiving more sign-ups every day.
So far we've had an excellent response from enthusiasts, owners clubs, magazines and insurers.
Thanks again to all of the people who carried out the survey- really appreciated and it really helped to develop the product.
John
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