Best source(s) for classic car values?
Discussion
Hi guys,
What do you use to establish market values for classic cars? Surely there must be a guide or two? Is there an authoritative one?
I get the feeling the prices tend to point to the high side due to speculator activity, as well as some cars selling for above market for investment purposes.
Thanks in advance
What do you use to establish market values for classic cars? Surely there must be a guide or two? Is there an authoritative one?
I get the feeling the prices tend to point to the high side due to speculator activity, as well as some cars selling for above market for investment purposes.
Thanks in advance
On ebay if you do the Advanced Search you can check the box marked "completed listings". This will tell you what the final price for a car was.
With the usual caveats, condition is everything (which is difficult to tell without seeing the car), maybe nobody wanted it that week it was selling, maybe 2 people really wanted it, etc etc
With the usual caveats, condition is everything (which is difficult to tell without seeing the car), maybe nobody wanted it that week it was selling, maybe 2 people really wanted it, etc etc
garethj said:
On ebay if you do the Advanced Search you can check the box marked "completed listings". This will tell you what the final price for a car was.
With the usual caveats, condition is everything (which is difficult to tell without seeing the car), maybe nobody wanted it that week it was selling, maybe 2 people really wanted it, etc etc
Sure, but eBay is a very limited source of cars. Surely there must be a better guide out there, sort of like Kelley's Blue Book (which is a used car pricing guide) but for classics?With the usual caveats, condition is everything (which is difficult to tell without seeing the car), maybe nobody wanted it that week it was selling, maybe 2 people really wanted it, etc etc
A couple of the Classic Car magazines have listing of guide prices for Classic Cars inside. Most popular cars are covered, but really it is only a ballpark guide and some are quite funny.... Classic Cars are like Antiques, they are really worth what someone is wiling to pay for them, guide prices can be way low of what the cars are actually selling for . And sometimes it is quite easy to spot in next months magazine, this months auctioned cars being sold retail for several thousand more, sometimes REALLY more!!!! In 4 weeks they can only really have had a tidy up. What car are you particularly interested in??
Exactly, there are guides at the back of Classic Cars and Classic & Sports Cars but don't take them too seriously. If you are just window shopping then fine for looking to see what you might get for £50k but after that make a short list and do your own research, one make clubs, sites like this and Google - there are loads of resources for getting to understand the market for a particular car. So, as has already been asked, what is it you're interested in?
Furyblade_Lee said:
...sometimes it is quite easy to spot in next months magazine, this months auctioned cars being sold retail for several thousand more, sometimes REALLY more!!!!
Indeed - like this lightweight DB4, recently sold at the RM sale at Battersea for £100K, back on the market in €250K in Germany but will it sell and if so for how much? This is the problem, auction prices are in the public domain but dealers usually put their cars up at inflated prices and negotiate. Mind you £150k profit in 4 weeks? 
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...
Classic Cars magazine has the most frequently updated price guide with the largest number of models.
However, if you were looking for values of a particular model, the last place I'd look would be a buyer's guide or an owner's club website. The minute an owner's club get roped in to help out on a buyer's guide, they'll casually mark the value of their cars up by up to a few grand in some cases.
That's why recent buyer's guides would suggest you pay £10k for a good Jensen-Healey, £2500 for a decent 1.8-litre Opel Manta B-series, and E-Type money for a Lancia Fulvia. The price guides will tell you a different, more accurate story.
However, if you were looking for values of a particular model, the last place I'd look would be a buyer's guide or an owner's club website. The minute an owner's club get roped in to help out on a buyer's guide, they'll casually mark the value of their cars up by up to a few grand in some cases.
That's why recent buyer's guides would suggest you pay £10k for a good Jensen-Healey, £2500 for a decent 1.8-litre Opel Manta B-series, and E-Type money for a Lancia Fulvia. The price guides will tell you a different, more accurate story.
RichB said:
AUDIHenry said:
It looks like there are disagreements in the same thread
Anyone else?
Well what's your view?Anyone else?
I've seen some guide type prices and some seem absurdly low, but I wonder if that's because we're used to the sky high prices from unique auctions (over-restored cars, cars with specific heritage, etc.) that skew the prices upwards.
As they are so dependant on so many permutations, there is no real way of determining an 'average' value of a classic. To give you an example...I just sold a Merc 1963 220SEB project for £1000, and though as a concourse car it would be worth £35K it would cost that much to get it to that condition. But my 1976 250 W114/5 Merc will struggle to make £1000 even though it's far more practical and a runner requiring little work.
If the buyer does his own restoration, it's worth more to him than someone who is going to have to pay someone else a lot more money to sort the car.
Provenance comes into play as well in the case of rare and exotic cars and one with a good history and matching numbers will always be worth more than one without.
The biggest issue is determining if a car is really a classic. Is a Cortina 1600E a classic? There were shed loads of them about and they were a run of the mill car but are still worth good money today, whereas a less common and more exotic car may not be as desireable.
But condition is all important as far as I'm concerned. It determines what I have to pay in total in order to get the car to the condition where I want it.
If the buyer does his own restoration, it's worth more to him than someone who is going to have to pay someone else a lot more money to sort the car.
Provenance comes into play as well in the case of rare and exotic cars and one with a good history and matching numbers will always be worth more than one without.
The biggest issue is determining if a car is really a classic. Is a Cortina 1600E a classic? There were shed loads of them about and they were a run of the mill car but are still worth good money today, whereas a less common and more exotic car may not be as desireable.
But condition is all important as far as I'm concerned. It determines what I have to pay in total in order to get the car to the condition where I want it.
As with anything an item is worth what someone will pay!
With moderns the price guides start at auctions, with enough volume of a particular model being sold an average can be calculated. BUT ITS STILL ONLY AN AVERAGE/GUIDE NOT A PRICE LIST. Much more difficult with a classic because they are all different, with not enough volumes being sold to calculate a meaningfull average.
With moderns the price guides start at auctions, with enough volume of a particular model being sold an average can be calculated. BUT ITS STILL ONLY AN AVERAGE/GUIDE NOT A PRICE LIST. Much more difficult with a classic because they are all different, with not enough volumes being sold to calculate a meaningfull average.
AUDIHenry said:
RichB said:
AUDIHenry said:
It looks like there are disagreements in the same thread
Anyone else?
Well what's your view?Anyone else?
I've seen some guide type prices and some seem absurdly low, but I wonder if that's because we're used to the sky high prices from unique auctions (over-restored cars, cars with specific heritage, etc.) that skew the prices upwards.
To be realistic, there are no hard and fast rules on values of any vehicle. Whatever model you are looking for , to buy the best will always cost more than the average price, be it restored or original. Some of the major auction houses always attract the bigger clients, so top examples will be at a high premium. Auction houses sell poorer examples and a lower than average price generally, with premiums and Vat would almost make an average figure.
RW774 said:
To be realistic, there are no hard and fast rules on values of any vehicle. Whatever model you are looking for , to buy the best will always cost more than the average price, be it restored or original. Some of the major auction houses always attract the bigger clients, so top examples will be at a high premium. Auction houses sell poorer examples and a lower than average price generally, with premiums and Vat would almost make an average figure.
I'm not only referring to the best: cars come in all shapes. They can be graded, and are graded by the source I was looking at, between 1 (basically a little more than a collection of parts) to a 5 (a museum quality example). However, even prices within the range didn't seem to line up too much with the real world, or my perception of it based on auction prices. (RM, Coys, etc.)AUDIHenry said:
my perception of it based on auction prices.
www.motorsnippets.com used to have a nice auction tracking system including Not Sold. This doesn't appear to have been updated in the last 5 years.There is a similar system on http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-au... which gives the last two years.
Use the refine search at the bottom to search by marque and model.
So.
TVR Chimaera £7.7-8.2K, comments over estimates!
(PH asking prices - 57 cars -> £5-20K)
Muira £240-£340K, 6 cars listed. (Motorsnippets gives ~15 cars in 2002/4 £60K-190K)
(PH asking - 2 cars POA from Coys)
As an example last time I looked an early flat floor E-type was worth around £25,000 in Classic Cars if in average condition. one sold recently for restoration for £48,000. it really depends on how much someone wants a car, like anything else in this world. I don't think a restoration case is worth that price no more than I believe Classic Car's valuations. I tend to follow H&H's auctions to see what real prices are.
lowdrag said:
...it really depends on how much someone wants a car....
Agree with this. And also how much someone wants to sell their car.The more rare the car, the less relevant "guide prices" become IMO, as the two factors above become more acute.
Key thing if looking for something is to do the leg work. Be honest with yourself about what you really want, look at plenty of cars, read as much as you can about them and then pull the trigger on the best example that suits your needs. Even if it's %s over (or under I guess - though that rarely seems to happen!) "average" price wise
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