Discussion
Im thinking of picking up a cheap old midget and doing it up.
2 questions:
1. I think the chrome bumper 60's versions are much nice. BUT, can you remove the plastic bumpers off the 70's ones and replace with chrome bumpers? is it a convincing swap? are these frawned upon and seen as tacky or a viable alternative?
2. what sort of engines could i replace the standard engine with? any experioences? how are the standard engines / running gear / chassis etc?
cheers
2 questions:
1. I think the chrome bumper 60's versions are much nice. BUT, can you remove the plastic bumpers off the 70's ones and replace with chrome bumpers? is it a convincing swap? are these frawned upon and seen as tacky or a viable alternative?
2. what sort of engines could i replace the standard engine with? any experioences? how are the standard engines / running gear / chassis etc?
cheers
The midget CB conversion is v expensive to do properly and more compex than the same MGB conversion.
The back panel is different so will require infill panels welding in below the the rear lights. Because the bumpers are much heavier the car will ride higher unless you also change the springs or use F&R lowering kits.
This converision will not help the values. If you want a CB car it's less hassel and cheaper in the long run to buy a CB car.
As regards engines the world is your lobster (as they say) Plenty of tuning bits about for the 1275 (CB) cars 100bhp is achievable and bits for the 1500 RB cars.
K serise a popular conversion (180 bhp possible) Turbo A serise (using metro bits) Ford crossflow and pinto engines have been used even a rover V8 using Sierra 4wd transmission.
Consider the limitations of the std (moggy minor) gearbox and weedy back axel which can only just handle the std power.
Try these guys they have tried and done everything possible a font of information.
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgb...
The back panel is different so will require infill panels welding in below the the rear lights. Because the bumpers are much heavier the car will ride higher unless you also change the springs or use F&R lowering kits.
This converision will not help the values. If you want a CB car it's less hassel and cheaper in the long run to buy a CB car.
As regards engines the world is your lobster (as they say) Plenty of tuning bits about for the 1275 (CB) cars 100bhp is achievable and bits for the 1500 RB cars.
K serise a popular conversion (180 bhp possible) Turbo A serise (using metro bits) Ford crossflow and pinto engines have been used even a rover V8 using Sierra 4wd transmission.
Consider the limitations of the std (moggy minor) gearbox and weedy back axel which can only just handle the std power.
Try these guys they have tried and done everything possible a font of information.
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgb...
Hi
I don't know about the engines as I quite like tuned A series. I'm not a big fan of the Triumph engine in the later cars.
It's easy to change the bumpers but difficult to make it look right.
The front bumper's easy enough to change, I did one a while ago on a mates rubber bumper car, he wanted it to look like the chrome bumper model I was running. We had to change the front valence as the brackets come through in a different place. The real big problem is in the grille area where the brackets are for the rubber bumper to bolt to.
The back again is fairly easy but looks a bit odd as the ends of the rear wings are squared of not rounded as on the earlier cars.
Regards
Ric
I don't know about the engines as I quite like tuned A series. I'm not a big fan of the Triumph engine in the later cars.
It's easy to change the bumpers but difficult to make it look right.
The front bumper's easy enough to change, I did one a while ago on a mates rubber bumper car, he wanted it to look like the chrome bumper model I was running. We had to change the front valence as the brackets come through in a different place. The real big problem is in the grille area where the brackets are for the rubber bumper to bolt to.
The back again is fairly easy but looks a bit odd as the ends of the rear wings are squared of not rounded as on the earlier cars.
Regards
Ric
I'll never understand why people struggle to debumper or chrome bumper a rubber car (although chroming it is a total waste of money technically as it devalues the car and isn't cheap due to bumpers.
Remove front and rear bumpers (8 bolts if original, doubtful all will be there.)
Chrome bumper brackets do bolt straight on to the front legs and do come through the front valance in exactly the same place (unless it has been messed with). No need to change valance.
Front wings can either be changed for chrome bumper wings (steel are expensive circa £250 each last time I bought some new) or fibreglass, Fibreglass wings come in various quality from poor thin race wings up to excellent thick road wings with gutters that are virtually indistinguishable from steel. Fibre wings need more fitting than a steel. Much more.....
Grill can be mounted straight in to grill aperture bolting through grill to old bumper supports. Obviously the grill won't be recessed as per late 1275s but if your just doing a bumperless car this doesn't matter anyway, the grills look nice flush in my opinion. If you want you can cut out the chassis leg to bumper supports but it is a massive job, your never going to fool anyone it is a C/B car anyway and the car can now never be returned to standard to sell - worthless.
If you do go down that road then the grill and 4 piece trims fit straight in as per a chrome car and it is preferable to fit them to a RB nose as opposed to a 1275 as the 1500 nose is different structurally for the rad blinds and water bottle mount anyway. Nose should match shell and engine really not "look".
Rear end is up to you, you can either make up a pair of smoothing panels to go under the lights and beat the back panel round (lots of work) to mimic a 1275. Or you just run without bumpers or even with bumpers and leave the back panel standard. Either way unless the car is a bright colour you won't even notice under the lights or bumper mounting plates and it doesn't look bad anyway.
Suspension will be higher but it is much much easier to lower than a B, simply change front and rear springs or even install lowering blocks front and rear (bit of a bodge). No other suspension work is needed. If your suspension is tired it probably won't sit any higher than a 1275 anyway, up to you whether you choose to refresh it at the same time.
Debumpering can cost anywhere from £25 (used grill) right up to a grand (new grill, bumpers, brackets, wings, bodywork, paint) to fit chromes.
With regards to rubber bumper cars in general.
They aren't as pretty or classic as the early cars, the interiors are identical to later CB cars, most of the panel work is identical or close enough not to matter also, so when bumpers are removed and a grill fitted they become pretty again. The gearbox is much stronger and superior to the 1275 box, plus it is relatively simple to fit overdrive. The engine has a bad reputation (without good cause either) for being weak, it is far from it, it is much much torquier than a 1275 and with a little basic work will rev far more freely than a 1275 with the same work done (basically carbs and filters). As with all these engines webbers are best avoided unless being used on WOT most of the time (race use) and being prepared to spend a lot of money on RR time on top of carb purchase.
I'm just getting my Midge finished (well I was I'm off to France again soon) which is coming along nicely it is a shell that was extensively rebuilt about 10 years ago and has needed little more than a quick refresh, all recon or new suspension and drive train and we have just dynod the engine which was an Oselli unit bought best part of 20 years ago (no rebuilds either!!!) been used extensively in competition and has accounted for the boxes of trophies upstairs and it is still putting out a reliable 101BHP! Hardly a weak engine.
All that said if your buying the car to enjoy on the road my advice is to buy a standard well maintained 1275 or 1500. The 1500 is in my opinion the more relaxed car to drive (still has the fun factor but more power means more relaxed cruising......Although it is still a Midge and everything is relative!) A standard 1500 in good condition with nice clean bumpers in one of the 70's colours looks damned good in my opinion, but if you can't live with the looks just buy a 1275 it will be cheaper in the long run and you will get your money back.
Remove front and rear bumpers (8 bolts if original, doubtful all will be there.)
Chrome bumper brackets do bolt straight on to the front legs and do come through the front valance in exactly the same place (unless it has been messed with). No need to change valance.
Front wings can either be changed for chrome bumper wings (steel are expensive circa £250 each last time I bought some new) or fibreglass, Fibreglass wings come in various quality from poor thin race wings up to excellent thick road wings with gutters that are virtually indistinguishable from steel. Fibre wings need more fitting than a steel. Much more.....
Grill can be mounted straight in to grill aperture bolting through grill to old bumper supports. Obviously the grill won't be recessed as per late 1275s but if your just doing a bumperless car this doesn't matter anyway, the grills look nice flush in my opinion. If you want you can cut out the chassis leg to bumper supports but it is a massive job, your never going to fool anyone it is a C/B car anyway and the car can now never be returned to standard to sell - worthless.
If you do go down that road then the grill and 4 piece trims fit straight in as per a chrome car and it is preferable to fit them to a RB nose as opposed to a 1275 as the 1500 nose is different structurally for the rad blinds and water bottle mount anyway. Nose should match shell and engine really not "look".
Rear end is up to you, you can either make up a pair of smoothing panels to go under the lights and beat the back panel round (lots of work) to mimic a 1275. Or you just run without bumpers or even with bumpers and leave the back panel standard. Either way unless the car is a bright colour you won't even notice under the lights or bumper mounting plates and it doesn't look bad anyway.
Suspension will be higher but it is much much easier to lower than a B, simply change front and rear springs or even install lowering blocks front and rear (bit of a bodge). No other suspension work is needed. If your suspension is tired it probably won't sit any higher than a 1275 anyway, up to you whether you choose to refresh it at the same time.
Debumpering can cost anywhere from £25 (used grill) right up to a grand (new grill, bumpers, brackets, wings, bodywork, paint) to fit chromes.
With regards to rubber bumper cars in general.
They aren't as pretty or classic as the early cars, the interiors are identical to later CB cars, most of the panel work is identical or close enough not to matter also, so when bumpers are removed and a grill fitted they become pretty again. The gearbox is much stronger and superior to the 1275 box, plus it is relatively simple to fit overdrive. The engine has a bad reputation (without good cause either) for being weak, it is far from it, it is much much torquier than a 1275 and with a little basic work will rev far more freely than a 1275 with the same work done (basically carbs and filters). As with all these engines webbers are best avoided unless being used on WOT most of the time (race use) and being prepared to spend a lot of money on RR time on top of carb purchase.
I'm just getting my Midge finished (well I was I'm off to France again soon) which is coming along nicely it is a shell that was extensively rebuilt about 10 years ago and has needed little more than a quick refresh, all recon or new suspension and drive train and we have just dynod the engine which was an Oselli unit bought best part of 20 years ago (no rebuilds either!!!) been used extensively in competition and has accounted for the boxes of trophies upstairs and it is still putting out a reliable 101BHP! Hardly a weak engine.
All that said if your buying the car to enjoy on the road my advice is to buy a standard well maintained 1275 or 1500. The 1500 is in my opinion the more relaxed car to drive (still has the fun factor but more power means more relaxed cruising......Although it is still a Midge and everything is relative!) A standard 1500 in good condition with nice clean bumpers in one of the 70's colours looks damned good in my opinion, but if you can't live with the looks just buy a 1275 it will be cheaper in the long run and you will get your money back.
I`m a Midget convert since I bought my 1979 rubber bumper car last year . I originally intended to remove the rubber bumpers , but have been too busy tinkering and driving it .
If you do remove the bumpers , new springs are required too as the front of the car appears to be weighted by the front bumper and lifts up if it`s removed .
I`ve previously mentioned this , but my green Midget (with racing numbers 07 on the doors !) attracts more postive attention than any Porsche . Alpina or Merc I`ve owned .
Buy and enjoy
If you do remove the bumpers , new springs are required too as the front of the car appears to be weighted by the front bumper and lifts up if it`s removed .
I`ve previously mentioned this , but my green Midget (with racing numbers 07 on the doors !) attracts more postive attention than any Porsche . Alpina or Merc I`ve owned .
Buy and enjoy
The guy who ran our local pet shop years ago knew of my interest in Astons and said one day, "I've got a photo to show you."
The picture was of a race at Silverstone in the early Seventies with him in his Midget overtaking a DB4GT through Woodcote on the old club circuit. The Aston had the straights and the Midget was all over him in the corners.
The Aston was in road trim but boasted 3.7 litres and a twin plug head and the Midget was 1275 and hotted up but had to be trailered.
Their lap times were virtually identical.
The moral is, get an A series Midget - or Sprite - and hot it up. Marvellous.
The picture was of a race at Silverstone in the early Seventies with him in his Midget overtaking a DB4GT through Woodcote on the old club circuit. The Aston had the straights and the Midget was all over him in the corners.
The Aston was in road trim but boasted 3.7 litres and a twin plug head and the Midget was 1275 and hotted up but had to be trailered.
Their lap times were virtually identical.
The moral is, get an A series Midget - or Sprite - and hot it up. Marvellous.
I had a 69 Midget- was one of the last before they went with the black sills and black grill, soit had the chrome (and wire wheels) but the seperate rear bumpers.
It had alexander air filters and a loud exhaust. Lovely! Perfect for the 19 year old about town. And it had old tyres on, which were past their best
Once at a club night, someoen told me that, if I was going fast enough you would not get wet with the top down- the theory is that the rain which is above you goes behind you, and the rain which would hit you gets stopped by the windscreen.
One night I tried this and it worked. I was young, it started raining and, in my youth decided to keep going. All was well- I was staying dry- until one roundabout, when the back end stepped out. With no skill and 100% luck, I managed to catch the tail and- again luck, not skill- managed to oversteer around the roundabout, and the grip came back as I was facing the exit road, allowing me to keep going.
It must have looked very good to the other cars- this Midget thrown around a roundabout and kept going without much loss of momentum, but it was VERY hairy from inside!
Get one. Tune the engine. Get better brakes. And tyres from a company you can pronounce the name of and it'll be great fun. And I bet you wont lose money on it when you need to sell.
It had alexander air filters and a loud exhaust. Lovely! Perfect for the 19 year old about town. And it had old tyres on, which were past their best
Once at a club night, someoen told me that, if I was going fast enough you would not get wet with the top down- the theory is that the rain which is above you goes behind you, and the rain which would hit you gets stopped by the windscreen.
One night I tried this and it worked. I was young, it started raining and, in my youth decided to keep going. All was well- I was staying dry- until one roundabout, when the back end stepped out. With no skill and 100% luck, I managed to catch the tail and- again luck, not skill- managed to oversteer around the roundabout, and the grip came back as I was facing the exit road, allowing me to keep going.
It must have looked very good to the other cars- this Midget thrown around a roundabout and kept going without much loss of momentum, but it was VERY hairy from inside!
Get one. Tune the engine. Get better brakes. And tyres from a company you can pronounce the name of and it'll be great fun. And I bet you wont lose money on it when you need to sell.
Hey guys
My mate is thinking of buying a Heritage shell Midget for about £6k. Apparently these are cars built from brand new shells so no rust. He has previously run a Midget while at Uni (doing much maintenance himself) and is of the firm opinion that rust is ever-present on these cars if kept outside.
Any opinions on Heritage shell vs original?
Joel
My mate is thinking of buying a Heritage shell Midget for about £6k. Apparently these are cars built from brand new shells so no rust. He has previously run a Midget while at Uni (doing much maintenance himself) and is of the firm opinion that rust is ever-present on these cars if kept outside.
Any opinions on Heritage shell vs original?
Joel
barchetta_boy said:
Any opinions on Heritage shell vs original?
It's not really the shell that's in question, it's who did the restoration. Heritage shells are made with as many of the original press tools as they could find and so are, to all intents and purposes, as good as a replacement from BMC would have been in the old days. The quality of a car remade using a new body, however, depends entirely on who carried out the work.the heritage shells have better rust protection, they are painted using modern paints and dipping etc. They should last longer but I know of one of the early ones which has now rusted away. As for the comment earlier |I gree it all depends on how it was rebuilt and how it has been looked after since. I would not keep a midget outside as they are not waterproof, a good cover will help.
I have a '70 Midget and even without significant tuning its great fun. Back end steps out at 30mph on a roundabout rather than licence losing speed ! I only wish I'd kept standard tyres rather than going for the extra grip - I now have to work harder for the same result - sometimes less really is more.
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