P5B - everydayer?
Discussion
so, I commute ~ 100 miles a day, mainly motorway/dual carriageway
Currently run a A8 4.2 quattro but the gearbox is made of cheese and the sheer amount of electric stuff is getting scary in case it all breaks
so. been thinking of getting a decent classic to do teh daily grind in as I've always enjoyed classics
My History is
1974 Escort Mk1 1300 GT
1963 Mk3 Zephyr 4
1975 MGBGT
1968 Vitesse
1959 A40
so I'm not unaware of using cars as every dayers but never SO far.
so my Q to the collective is am I totally mad? is it possible? should I look to do some modernisation? I'm immediately thinking eleccy ignition, fuel pumps, potentially LPG conversion, what else springs to mind?
Currently run a A8 4.2 quattro but the gearbox is made of cheese and the sheer amount of electric stuff is getting scary in case it all breaks
so. been thinking of getting a decent classic to do teh daily grind in as I've always enjoyed classics
My History is
1974 Escort Mk1 1300 GT
1963 Mk3 Zephyr 4
1975 MGBGT
1968 Vitesse
1959 A40
so I'm not unaware of using cars as every dayers but never SO far.
so my Q to the collective is am I totally mad? is it possible? should I look to do some modernisation? I'm immediately thinking eleccy ignition, fuel pumps, potentially LPG conversion, what else springs to mind?
The biggest problem I can think of is fuel consumption 
Buying the right car to start with is the best way of getting something reliable, then it'll take a little while of driving around to find out its weak spots which you can probably fix quite cheaply (things like brake pipes, fuel pumps, dampers, go through the wiring etc)
The only thing I find is needed for a daily driver is decent demisting, so make sure the car isn't damp inside and maybe upgrade the heater matrix and blower. A heated rear window (and maybe even an electric heated front screen) might be worth investing in.
Your average speed will probably drop, but I'd guess your stress levels while commuting will too
Buying the right car to start with is the best way of getting something reliable, then it'll take a little while of driving around to find out its weak spots which you can probably fix quite cheaply (things like brake pipes, fuel pumps, dampers, go through the wiring etc)
The only thing I find is needed for a daily driver is decent demisting, so make sure the car isn't damp inside and maybe upgrade the heater matrix and blower. A heated rear window (and maybe even an electric heated front screen) might be worth investing in.
Your average speed will probably drop, but I'd guess your stress levels while commuting will too
Brian_M said:
Late model 2 litre Volvo Amazon with overdrive
Yes. I saw this and fell in love with it and the price the other week:
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-pa...
Shame I spent so much on the TVR getting it through the MoT last week, and my wife won't let me have it because of lack of space.
A P5B will cripple you with the petrol consumption.
Fuel consumption isn't that much of a concern TBH, if I can LPG and get ~ 18 mpg then its what I'm currently paying to run the A8. One concern is of course unleaded heads? I am used to running a flashlube system at worst case but one thought was if it would be possible to transplant a 3.5 out of a discovery/rangie/XXX with later electronic ignition, fuel injection and of course unleaded by default.
Amazons do look nice but I've always hankered after a P5 since I was a lad and a bloke from Scarborough was in a tent next to ours with a beautiful burgundy one.
I'm equally aware that average speed will drop but again with todays congestion for teh most of my daily drive I'm limited by teh cars in front so can't get much above 70 even if I wnated to. I sort of assumed a P5 would be capable of cruising at 70........
Whilst I like originality and would try and preserve any rare trim etc I'd also be comfortable with some modernaisations such as heated seats ( we have a car trimmer nearby who has in the past added heating pads to classic seats. ) decent blown heating with additional heating elements for demist etc One benefit of a 50 mile each way commute is that my cars always gets a decent run to keep batteries charged and engines etc all properly warmed up, no stop start stuff here!
Amazons do look nice but I've always hankered after a P5 since I was a lad and a bloke from Scarborough was in a tent next to ours with a beautiful burgundy one.
I'm equally aware that average speed will drop but again with todays congestion for teh most of my daily drive I'm limited by teh cars in front so can't get much above 70 even if I wnated to. I sort of assumed a P5 would be capable of cruising at 70........
Whilst I like originality and would try and preserve any rare trim etc I'd also be comfortable with some modernaisations such as heated seats ( we have a car trimmer nearby who has in the past added heating pads to classic seats. ) decent blown heating with additional heating elements for demist etc One benefit of a 50 mile each way commute is that my cars always gets a decent run to keep batteries charged and engines etc all properly warmed up, no stop start stuff here!
Run a P5B as a daily runner? excellent idea!
I did just that 3-4 years ago, even fitted an LPG conversion to make it easier on the pocket, 20k miles and car still going strong. Its' booked in for a full respray in November as I now commute by train so it can get a bit of much deserved TLC...
I'll reply in detail tomorrow if interested?
Cheers,
Steve.
I did just that 3-4 years ago, even fitted an LPG conversion to make it easier on the pocket, 20k miles and car still going strong. Its' booked in for a full respray in November as I now commute by train so it can get a bit of much deserved TLC...
I'll reply in detail tomorrow if interested?
Cheers,
Steve.
Well you can save a fair bit of money by not using snake oils like flash lube.
Nice car the P5b, I've always fancied either a P5b or a MK2 Jag with fully modernised mechanicals as a daily driver.
I can't comment on how you would get on with it, but from your past cars I wouldn't imagine you will have any issues at all, as with all classics you will have a period of unreliability as worn out parts fail from age and being used daily, but then it should come together. Remember once they were daily drivers for thousands of people!
With regard to valve seat recession worries on almost any engine.
With the exception of a few engines which are heinously expensive to rebuild, Lotus twink being one of them (although mine never suffered from Unleaded) most engines are not worth anywhere near enough for valve seat recession to be a worry (bear in mind I'm talking "modern" classics here so 60's onwards, obviously very very old engines will probably be a different story).
I would always advise people just to run the engine on unleaded and see what happens, after running various classics from old MGs, Porsches, Lotus, Audis and Rovers on unleaded I haven't suffered valve seat recession at all (used without additives) all those cars have been daily drivers with hard regular usage and occasional motorsport use. Bearing in mind most classics do less than a thousand miles a year I find it incredible people are prepared to spend money on alleged "cures" to a problem that doesn't really exist.
Alloy heads have inserts anyway.
I recently discovered partly due to owning an American MGB that a large proportion of the B series heads are unleaded safe anyway, the same will go for all BL/BMC engines as the change was material based not a hardened insert.
Even on allegedly "unsafe" engines, the only way to make them "safe" is to remove and strip the head and fit hardened seats. In the event of suffering valve seat recession you remove and strip the head and fit hardened seats...... Therefore leaving it till you do suffer recession (if ever) and getting the job done then will potentially save a lot of money.
Nice car the P5b, I've always fancied either a P5b or a MK2 Jag with fully modernised mechanicals as a daily driver.
I can't comment on how you would get on with it, but from your past cars I wouldn't imagine you will have any issues at all, as with all classics you will have a period of unreliability as worn out parts fail from age and being used daily, but then it should come together. Remember once they were daily drivers for thousands of people!
With regard to valve seat recession worries on almost any engine.
With the exception of a few engines which are heinously expensive to rebuild, Lotus twink being one of them (although mine never suffered from Unleaded) most engines are not worth anywhere near enough for valve seat recession to be a worry (bear in mind I'm talking "modern" classics here so 60's onwards, obviously very very old engines will probably be a different story).
I would always advise people just to run the engine on unleaded and see what happens, after running various classics from old MGs, Porsches, Lotus, Audis and Rovers on unleaded I haven't suffered valve seat recession at all (used without additives) all those cars have been daily drivers with hard regular usage and occasional motorsport use. Bearing in mind most classics do less than a thousand miles a year I find it incredible people are prepared to spend money on alleged "cures" to a problem that doesn't really exist.
Alloy heads have inserts anyway.
I recently discovered partly due to owning an American MGB that a large proportion of the B series heads are unleaded safe anyway, the same will go for all BL/BMC engines as the change was material based not a hardened insert.
Even on allegedly "unsafe" engines, the only way to make them "safe" is to remove and strip the head and fit hardened seats. In the event of suffering valve seat recession you remove and strip the head and fit hardened seats...... Therefore leaving it till you do suffer recession (if ever) and getting the job done then will potentially save a lot of money.
I agree on the unleaded heads bit. The V8 does not need anything doing to the heads to cope with unleaded.
I have a P5B and occasionally use it for commuting, it copes really well mechanically and buzzes along the motorway at 80 quite happily. However I am terrified of tin worm, the rust proofing is non existent and there is no way I would drive it on treated roads in the winter.
I have a P5B and occasionally use it for commuting, it copes really well mechanically and buzzes along the motorway at 80 quite happily. However I am terrified of tin worm, the rust proofing is non existent and there is no way I would drive it on treated roads in the winter.
thanks for that guys, so no real concern of running it on LPG then
As for tin worm, my current plan is that it will get a twice a year weeks holiday at a local bodyshop/garage for a check/spruce up with preventative measures in place where possible, ( Waxoyl'd sills etc). I'm quite happy to splurge a bit of cash to keep her in good state.
i would of course be keeping an eye open for any scratches/chips etc and dealing with as a running project.
glad to hear they will buzz along at 80, TBH its rare I can get up that fast due to traffic and driving something that interests me will make it more about teh journey than the destinationas it is now with my modern machine
As for tin worm, my current plan is that it will get a twice a year weeks holiday at a local bodyshop/garage for a check/spruce up with preventative measures in place where possible, ( Waxoyl'd sills etc). I'm quite happy to splurge a bit of cash to keep her in good state.
i would of course be keeping an eye open for any scratches/chips etc and dealing with as a running project.
glad to hear they will buzz along at 80, TBH its rare I can get up that fast due to traffic and driving something that interests me will make it more about teh journey than the destinationas it is now with my modern machine
My Dad has one as a weekend car but it's currently off the road with brake failure.
I love driving it but wouldn't want to drive it every day personally. The steering is beyond vague, the handbrake is utterly ineffective and it's so spongey and squishy it's very difficult to get anywhere quickly.
It is a stunning car though, it's silver birch over zircon blue with brown leather and incredibly comfy, I can imagine it being a brilliant car for a cruise across the USA.
I love driving it but wouldn't want to drive it every day personally. The steering is beyond vague, the handbrake is utterly ineffective and it's so spongey and squishy it's very difficult to get anywhere quickly.
It is a stunning car though, it's silver birch over zircon blue with brown leather and incredibly comfy, I can imagine it being a brilliant car for a cruise across the USA.
Further to my post above, I purchased a Rover P5B for that very same reason, I have other more "delicate" classics for fun but wanted a good everyday comfortable workhorse that would be (almost) as comfortable as my Range Rover, the P5B I purchased was very original, in fantastic condition with low miles; prolonged use threw up a few minor issues (brake hoses / spring bushes etc) but it has never really missed a beat and did my 20 mile round trip commute through London traffic for 2.5 years. If you do plenty of miles, fitting an LPG conversion is worthwhile (and costs about £600 if you do it yourself - probably double that if you have someone do it for you)
As someone else posted above - this is what these cars were designed for when new, and many well-to-do's used P5Bs as their everyday transport!! fast forward 30-35yrs, and its no different; you'll have to keep on top of the servicing / maintenance, but remember its' going to be a lot simpler (and cheaper!) than maintaining a modern car. You could rebuild the engine for the price of a big service on the Audi!!
Rust is always an issue, but buy a good one and keep it waxoiled / undersealed and it'll be fine.
Few pics of mine;
I now use it as a fun car once more (I commute by train) so am treating it to a respray, some chrome - to get it as close to "concours" as I can.
Real world experiences - its VERY comfortable with armchair like seats, the steering is quite light, it rolls a bit in the corners (obviously!) the brakes are good (discs on the front, huge drums at the back) and it has a reasonable turn of speed when required; and it will happily cruise at 70-80mph.
Only downside is you'll get a lot more attention from your fellow motorists; and its' much more of an "occasion" than commuting in a modern.
MPG around town is probably about 14-15 mpg, on a run 18-19 mpg is realistic. On LPG mpg is slightly lower; but you're obviously getting the benefit of half the price of petrol...
Good luck!!
Steve
As someone else posted above - this is what these cars were designed for when new, and many well-to-do's used P5Bs as their everyday transport!! fast forward 30-35yrs, and its no different; you'll have to keep on top of the servicing / maintenance, but remember its' going to be a lot simpler (and cheaper!) than maintaining a modern car. You could rebuild the engine for the price of a big service on the Audi!!
Rust is always an issue, but buy a good one and keep it waxoiled / undersealed and it'll be fine.
Few pics of mine;
I now use it as a fun car once more (I commute by train) so am treating it to a respray, some chrome - to get it as close to "concours" as I can.
Real world experiences - its VERY comfortable with armchair like seats, the steering is quite light, it rolls a bit in the corners (obviously!) the brakes are good (discs on the front, huge drums at the back) and it has a reasonable turn of speed when required; and it will happily cruise at 70-80mph.
Only downside is you'll get a lot more attention from your fellow motorists; and its' much more of an "occasion" than commuting in a modern.
MPG around town is probably about 14-15 mpg, on a run 18-19 mpg is realistic. On LPG mpg is slightly lower; but you're obviously getting the benefit of half the price of petrol...
Good luck!!
Steve
Cheers guys,
That looks a lovely motor....
I'm comfortable with increased maintenance and that it will be a lot less expensive than a service on the Audi. having spent 2.5K on a gearbox rebuild for it in March I reckon even a full oils and filters service every 6K won't be breaking the bank the way this thing has done.
LPG is a must as I do > 100 miles a day (I've covered over 250K on LPG over the last 8 years so know a little about it and have a friendly fitter who will work with me on a weekend to do it then certfy it for me.
Cheers for teh info, now I'm hooked on trawling fleabay etc Just need to persuade SWMBO that it will be good enough to use daily
That looks a lovely motor....
I'm comfortable with increased maintenance and that it will be a lot less expensive than a service on the Audi. having spent 2.5K on a gearbox rebuild for it in March I reckon even a full oils and filters service every 6K won't be breaking the bank the way this thing has done.
LPG is a must as I do > 100 miles a day (I've covered over 250K on LPG over the last 8 years so know a little about it and have a friendly fitter who will work with me on a weekend to do it then certfy it for me.
Cheers for teh info, now I'm hooked on trawling fleabay etc Just need to persuade SWMBO that it will be good enough to use daily
I can't remember the name of the company that did it (a Rover specialist - a well known one I suspect), but a few months back there was a P5 in the classifieds that claimed to have Range Rover running gear and a hot engine. Did anyone else see it? It may even have been discussed here... Excuse my poor memory.
flat16 said:
I can't remember the name of the company that did it (a Rover specialist - a well known one I suspect), but a few months back there was a P5 in the classifieds that claimed to have Range Rover running gear and a hot engine. Did anyone else see it? It may even have been discussed here... Excuse my poor memory.
years back a read an artical about a "Strange Rover" which was exactly that. It was owned by someone trendy - fashion designer, trendy architect, tv chef or similar - and used to tool around London but still be able travel up the rocky drive to his Devon weekend house. Another alternative if you're a bit handy with the spanners is an engine transplant?
A friend of mine had a very good 78 Series 2 XJ6 with a knackered engine, so removed it and replaced with a diesel unit from an 80's merc. He had to make up an adaptor plate for the gearbox which a local engineering company did and it worked pretty well - did seem odd hearing diesel rattle from a Jag, but economy was good. He got bored before sorting out how to link the dials up and I think he sold it to a gent in Ireland.
Perhaps an option?
A friend of mine had a very good 78 Series 2 XJ6 with a knackered engine, so removed it and replaced with a diesel unit from an 80's merc. He had to make up an adaptor plate for the gearbox which a local engineering company did and it worked pretty well - did seem odd hearing diesel rattle from a Jag, but economy was good. He got bored before sorting out how to link the dials up and I think he sold it to a gent in Ireland.
Perhaps an option?
Best everyday classic ,I would go for A Mercedes Benz W124.230or220ce nice coupes simple mechanics good backup with plenty of choice .Any w124 saloon or estate well worth saving if in good condition.Don't worry about milage if the history is good.Merc 190 is another to think about just starting to get collectible.Avoid the 1800cc, and the 16 valve models to good for everyday use.P5b's are now quite hard to find,expect to pay £6-£7k for a good one.Had one back in the late 80's
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... about a 'period' classics pictures thread
cherrs, Bob.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... about a 'period' classics pictures thread
cherrs, Bob.
I used to have an XJC with series 3 XJ running gear, it was an excellent daily driver and the fuel consumption was easily offset by zero depreciation.
The conversion to Series 3 gear is fairly elaborate if you include the interior to get such luxuries as intermittent wipe and cruise control, but it is all just nuts and bolts, plugs and switches!
LPG would have really made it the perfect commuter classic, and the boot is huge, but my ever increasing family put paid to it.
The conversion to Series 3 gear is fairly elaborate if you include the interior to get such luxuries as intermittent wipe and cruise control, but it is all just nuts and bolts, plugs and switches!
LPG would have really made it the perfect commuter classic, and the boot is huge, but my ever increasing family put paid to it.
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