Is this still a genuine, "proper" 8 Litre Bentley?
Discussion
http://www.stanleymann.com/showcar.asp?ID=36
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C57682/
Power steering and seems that little of the "original car" remains. The ad doesn't have a lot of detail, but it got me thinking about whether this car is the "eagle e type" of 8 litres, so to speak?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C57682/
Power steering and seems that little of the "original car" remains. The ad doesn't have a lot of detail, but it got me thinking about whether this car is the "eagle e type" of 8 litres, so to speak?
Apart from the addition of PAS (which quite a few Vintage Bentleys have had fitted, when the owners start to struggle a little in their old age), I don't see the problem? It's still a proper Vintage Bentley to me. PAS is reversible and not that much different to fitting say a CD player and some speakers, so wouldn't make it any less of a car IMO.
Now if it had a modern V8 in it and a GM400 auto, fair point! But even then, the Bentley world is full of 'Specials' anyway. Look at the number of 3/4 1/2's, or 3/8's, or Derby & MKVI Specials too.
Now if it had a modern V8 in it and a GM400 auto, fair point! But even then, the Bentley world is full of 'Specials' anyway. Look at the number of 3/4 1/2's, or 3/8's, or Derby & MKVI Specials too.
That is rather fine. Quite novel to see someone sticking to the saloon/coupe theme rather than tearing the body off and replacing it with an open one as still seems to be happening. I wouldn't personally have bothered with things like power steering, but it seems like a sympathetically enhanced car and I don't suppose there's much involved in removing a PAS system.
This confuses me and it confused me the first time I looked at it as well. To quote Stanley Mann :-
What on earth is for sale here? I can't work it out.
stanley mann said:
The original 8 litre was a bit special and was the Olympia Show Car for 1930. As this car no longer survives, and having the time, passion, and ability to reconstruct this magnificent Bentley on his 8 litre chassis, he built his dream.
My view tends to be 'if it's vague it's always the least of the possibilities'. On the one hand he is quoting matching engine and chassis numbers. On the other he is saying 'This car no longer survives...having the (..wonga..) he built his dream'. So is this just a very expensive recreation of an 8 Litre Bentley, and if so what is it based on? What on earth is for sale here? I can't work it out.
My take on what is being sold is a genuine 8 litre which has had a body, and possibly other mechanical changes, created to replicate a particular 8 litre which the owner liked. As there were many different body styles available, and many have probably been rebodied or very extensively rebuilt at some point I think it is fair to call this as original an 8 litre as many others.
`Re-creation` seems to be the new trade term as opposed to kit car or replica.
Thousands of cars have either been created from boxes or re-created from plans. Eagle take a genuine car and convert it to modern spec, but in essence it is still a genuine car, bodywork engine etc remain the same in essence.It would take little to convert back to the genuine original car. With this Bentley, I would say it was a re-creation of a concept.Nothing wrong in that , unless it is passed off as the real thing at some future date.
Thousands of cars have either been created from boxes or re-created from plans. Eagle take a genuine car and convert it to modern spec, but in essence it is still a genuine car, bodywork engine etc remain the same in essence.It would take little to convert back to the genuine original car. With this Bentley, I would say it was a re-creation of a concept.Nothing wrong in that , unless it is passed off as the real thing at some future date.
Surely the fact that the advert states that it is a restoration, the owner bought the 8 litre in 1961 and built it on his chassis means it is genuine, and more so than cars which end up with new chassis and body. No doubt there will be some new metal in the chassis but it doesn't sound like Trigger's broom.
I don't think the point is trying to fool anyone - lots of Bentleys have been rebodied as Le Mans reps because that's what is thought desirable (by some). No different from all the Frazer Nash Le Mans Replica replicas, or the 250 GTEs now wearing fake GTO (or Testa Rossa) bodywork.
If this is a genuine 8 Litre chassis (which it appears to be and makes it a rarity in its own right), it's just now one of many Vintage Bentleys which isn't wearing its original body.
If this is a genuine 8 Litre chassis (which it appears to be and makes it a rarity in its own right), it's just now one of many Vintage Bentleys which isn't wearing its original body.
Wot Trommel said.
There aren't many Vintage Bentleys about wearing their original birfday suit.
How many 3 litre saloons do you see? back in the day, half of them were closed. A hell of a lot of them were bodied as fire trucks, vans, delivery trucks etc before, during and immediately after the war. Today 99.9% of those same cars are now open VDP.
With 8 litres, originally most wore formal limousine coachwork, or were closed Coupés, but again, today they are nearly all open VDP.
There aren't many Vintage Bentleys about wearing their original birfday suit.
How many 3 litre saloons do you see? back in the day, half of them were closed. A hell of a lot of them were bodied as fire trucks, vans, delivery trucks etc before, during and immediately after the war. Today 99.9% of those same cars are now open VDP.
With 8 litres, originally most wore formal limousine coachwork, or were closed Coupés, but again, today they are nearly all open VDP.
Edited by Balmoral Green on Tuesday 25th August 21:22
I see now, and having had a good look on Stanley Mann's own website, it is undoubtedly a very nice looking car.
So, presumably, even a very comprehensive restoration that results in a car that looks quite different from the car's original appearance, will not affect the value significantly - or is one in genuinely original appearance even more valuable again?
So, presumably, even a very comprehensive restoration that results in a car that looks quite different from the car's original appearance, will not affect the value significantly - or is one in genuinely original appearance even more valuable again?
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 27th August 15:37
Stanley doesn't mind messing with cars moving them on from original. I've talked at some length about it with him and he has some good points.
He felt that as some of the cars changed over the years from new, at what year should you stop?
Nice looking car regardless of what it actually is.
He felt that as some of the cars changed over the years from new, at what year should you stop?
Nice looking car regardless of what it actually is.
There is that whole argument of 'when does it stop becoming original'. Parts need rebuilding to the point where most have changed. Is it the bodywork that makes a car a car? The drivetrain? The steering wheel? A lot of Bentleys were changed around in the period, I don't see how bespoke coachwork 50 years on (or whatever) is any different to the original ethos when the car was made. Nor is fitting parts from other cars if it makes it a bit better in certain ways; isn't that just what racing cars had done to them? Still seems like a highly desirable and pukka car to me.
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