What constitutes a classic car?
Discussion
Age-old discussion, but one I got embroiled in with a couple of chums a few days ago. Three people who love cars and none of us could agree. Is it an age thing? A prestige thing? A nostalgic thing? Does a classic car have to be desireable in some way, or do you have some other measure? Can a new car be a classic? Can a car be old, rare, desireable and still not a classic? What do you think?!!
Well this is my take on it. I hope I dont offend anyone it is my personal thoughts though.
For a car to be a classic it has to be all the following:
created in limited numbers
be a car that in its day was much better than its peers its its class
most people would have aspired to owning one
be greater than a certain age (but younger than vintage).
So e.g. that rules out anything that was mass market e.g. standard Ford Cortina but the Lotus Cortina and 1600E would be included
Once more this is just my opinion and I respect others which I am sure could be completely different
For a car to be a classic it has to be all the following:
created in limited numbers
be a car that in its day was much better than its peers its its class
most people would have aspired to owning one
be greater than a certain age (but younger than vintage).
So e.g. that rules out anything that was mass market e.g. standard Ford Cortina but the Lotus Cortina and 1600E would be included
Once more this is just my opinion and I respect others which I am sure could be completely different
Anything that is seen as old by the younger generation and is, at the same time, able to stir up a following by others of it.
As for a classic being a limited number vehicle, complete and utter disagreement. Under that kind of thought, things like the Model T ford wouldn't constitute classic car status
As for a classic being a limited number vehicle, complete and utter disagreement. Under that kind of thought, things like the Model T ford wouldn't constitute classic car status
Mon Ami Mate said:
Age-old discussion, but one I got embroiled in with a couple of chums a few days ago. Three people who love cars and none of us could agree. Is it an age thing? A prestige thing? A nostalgic thing? Does a classic car have to be desireable in some way, or do you have some other measure? Can a new car be a classic? Can a car be old, rare, desireable and still not a classic? What do you think?!!
This one often comes up in Practical Classics too, and one of the recent definitions I liked the most was thisA classic car is any car who which is more than just transport, its a hobby, and provides fun and enjoyment.
So that includes most sportscars, of course. But it also includes the Ford Zephyr, bought by a 40'thing chap who remembers being the proudest kid on the street, when his Dad had one etc. And it also means a lot of modern cars count too, albeit in a slightly different way perhaps.
Most people seem to see it as just anything old that somebody bothered to keep! For me old doesn't mean classic. I think Phil has the main bit:
1 created in limited numbers
2 be a car that in its day was much better than its peers its its class
3 most people would have aspired to owning one
4 be greater than a certain age (but younger than vintage).
Though I'm not too convinced at the limited numbers bit!
If it meets the other criteria I'd let it in! As time goes by there are less of them anyway, as a Landy fan I'd say early landies are classic, even Mk1 Range Rovers, they certainly meet points 2 and 3 and that, to my mind is the crux of it.
And the "certain age" is always going to be an issue!
So, would an allegro or marina ever be considered "classic" by the PH fraternity?
Some people already do, there's an owners club out there somewhere. A quick google shows that the marina owners club exibited at the NEC classic car show!
This is where it all gets muddied as what people want to see at classic car shows, alongside past exotica, is what they're dad drove them around in when they were kids.
So really we need two terms, classic reserved for things meeting Phils definition and one for just "normal" old cars that is a bit more flattering!
The classic term has been applied to anything andd is so overused it is now pretty meaningless
Stangely the US doesn't have a "classic" car scene, they just call them all "old timers", amongst which you will find boring, interesing and exotica. Maybe they have (gotten) an English term right (for a change
)
So I'd vote for "old timers" for normal old cars that don't meet Phil's criteria.
And then we get on to "future classics" ...
1 created in limited numbers
2 be a car that in its day was much better than its peers its its class
3 most people would have aspired to owning one
4 be greater than a certain age (but younger than vintage).
Though I'm not too convinced at the limited numbers bit!
If it meets the other criteria I'd let it in! As time goes by there are less of them anyway, as a Landy fan I'd say early landies are classic, even Mk1 Range Rovers, they certainly meet points 2 and 3 and that, to my mind is the crux of it.
And the "certain age" is always going to be an issue!
So, would an allegro or marina ever be considered "classic" by the PH fraternity?
Some people already do, there's an owners club out there somewhere. A quick google shows that the marina owners club exibited at the NEC classic car show!
This is where it all gets muddied as what people want to see at classic car shows, alongside past exotica, is what they're dad drove them around in when they were kids.
So really we need two terms, classic reserved for things meeting Phils definition and one for just "normal" old cars that is a bit more flattering!
The classic term has been applied to anything andd is so overused it is now pretty meaningless
Stangely the US doesn't have a "classic" car scene, they just call them all "old timers", amongst which you will find boring, interesing and exotica. Maybe they have (gotten) an English term right (for a change
)So I'd vote for "old timers" for normal old cars that don't meet Phil's criteria.
And then we get on to "future classics" ...
Noogly said:
So, would an allegro or marina ever be considered "classic" by the PH fraternity?
Noogly I think you caught it in one there. That was the point I was trying to reach.If all cars are loved by someone, can they be called classics. I think not. I like the old timers American way.
The tin of worms grows
I know it has been discussed previously, but I think this is a discusion worth having from a slightly different angle.
I think all of these cars could be argued to be classics, what do you lot think:
1. Morris Minor
2. Citroen 2CV
3. Austin Mini
4. Rover P4, P5 and P6
5. Ford Popular
6. Humber Sceptre
7. Vauxhall Cresta
8. Jaguar XJS
9. BMW635CSI
10. Porsche 944
Taking things on a step further though, what about an Audi TT, an Alfa 156 or a Subaru Impreza?
I think all of these cars could be argued to be classics, what do you lot think:
1. Morris Minor
2. Citroen 2CV
3. Austin Mini
4. Rover P4, P5 and P6
5. Ford Popular
6. Humber Sceptre
7. Vauxhall Cresta
8. Jaguar XJS
9. BMW635CSI
10. Porsche 944
Taking things on a step further though, what about an Audi TT, an Alfa 156 or a Subaru Impreza?
Mon Ami Mate said:
I know it has been discussed previously, but I think this is a discusion worth having from a slightly different angle.
I think all of these cars could be argued to be classics, what do you lot think:
1. Morris Minor
2. Citroen 2CV
3. Austin Mini
4. Rover P4, P5 and P6
5. Ford Popular
6. Humber Sceptre
7. Vauxhall Cresta
8. Jaguar XJS
9. BMW635CSI
10. Porsche 944
Taking things on a step further though, what about an Audi TT, an Alfa 156 or a Subaru Impreza?
1. Morris Minor NOI think all of these cars could be argued to be classics, what do you lot think:
1. Morris Minor
2. Citroen 2CV
3. Austin Mini
4. Rover P4, P5 and P6
5. Ford Popular
6. Humber Sceptre
7. Vauxhall Cresta
8. Jaguar XJS
9. BMW635CSI
10. Porsche 944
Taking things on a step further though, what about an Audi TT, an Alfa 156 or a Subaru Impreza?
2. Citroen 2CV NO
3. Austin Mini YES
4. Rover P4, P5 and P6 NO
5. Ford Popular NO
6. Humber Sceptre NO
7. Vauxhall Cresta NO
8. Jaguar XJS NO
9. BMW635CSI YES
10. Porsche 944 MAYBE
IMO
My 2p worth.
I dont believe that anything that is 'NEW' can be classed as classic - whether it is produced in small numbers, different, desirable etc.
A classic to my mind has to have some age to it... what age is the biggest debate here.
Whether its a maxi or a maserati is irrelevant, if it has survived for a number of years and someone is enthused to maintain it still, then its going to fall into the classic bracket.
I think there are a number of different headings that could be used:
Current sports or supercar / limited edition models etc = Modern Desirable / Collectors Car / Future Classic (which I know everything is if its still on the road after enough years)
20-40 years old - regardless of make / mark etc = classic
40+ years starts to creap towards the vintage 'label'
Just my opinion of course.
I dont believe that anything that is 'NEW' can be classed as classic - whether it is produced in small numbers, different, desirable etc.
A classic to my mind has to have some age to it... what age is the biggest debate here.
Whether its a maxi or a maserati is irrelevant, if it has survived for a number of years and someone is enthused to maintain it still, then its going to fall into the classic bracket.
I think there are a number of different headings that could be used:
Current sports or supercar / limited edition models etc = Modern Desirable / Collectors Car / Future Classic (which I know everything is if its still on the road after enough years)
20-40 years old - regardless of make / mark etc = classic
40+ years starts to creap towards the vintage 'label'
Just my opinion of course.
But one man's poison...
I know somebody who is massively passionate about his 2CV. People are clearly passionate about Marinas. I was pretty passionate about my 156, I'm extremely passionate about my 30 year old Series III Land Rover and I was passionate beyond belief about both my R33 Skyline GTR and my Alfetta GTV6.
I know somebody who is massively passionate about his 2CV. People are clearly passionate about Marinas. I was pretty passionate about my 156, I'm extremely passionate about my 30 year old Series III Land Rover and I was passionate beyond belief about both my R33 Skyline GTR and my Alfetta GTV6.
Lets be honest here, do you care?
I certainly don't and I have a vintage car at the moment and have had some cars listed above that some consider classics, some don't. Some consider them a piece of sh*t.
I just drive and enjoy them. What other people consider them to be is there opinion / problem.
I certainly don't and I have a vintage car at the moment and have had some cars listed above that some consider classics, some don't. Some consider them a piece of sh*t.
I just drive and enjoy them. What other people consider them to be is there opinion / problem.
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