Restoration courses
Discussion
Thought I'd throw this out to you guys.
Im not especially happy sat behind a desk all day and have always hankered to be more skilled in the mechanic / bodywork department, so I started looking around at available courses.
Most of the links that used to exist on the net have now either gone or the colleges are on hols etc and sites are down.
I have found this http://www.lct.ac.uk/vehiclerestoration.asp which seems to be exactly what I need - However!!!
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
So, (gulp) give me your thoughts, ideas, suggestions for a reasonable solution to my scenario.
Cheers
Dom
Im not especially happy sat behind a desk all day and have always hankered to be more skilled in the mechanic / bodywork department, so I started looking around at available courses.
Most of the links that used to exist on the net have now either gone or the colleges are on hols etc and sites are down.
I have found this http://www.lct.ac.uk/vehiclerestoration.asp which seems to be exactly what I need - However!!!
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
So, (gulp) give me your thoughts, ideas, suggestions for a reasonable solution to my scenario.
Cheers
Dom
Apologies for bump.
Is there a feeling / reality (from comments made on other forums here) that this type of arena is a dieing breed, and therefore less take-up on these types of courses!?
Anybody else done one of these and can offer any real life feedback on the benefits gained or not from attending a restoration / mechanical course.
From the forums and threads im seeing every day, it seems that there are masses of people still interested in looking after their classics, or preparing their car to track day or compete (or is this a blinkered view as Im looking at this from a Petrolhead forum perspective!?
Is there a feeling / reality (from comments made on other forums here) that this type of arena is a dieing breed, and therefore less take-up on these types of courses!?
Anybody else done one of these and can offer any real life feedback on the benefits gained or not from attending a restoration / mechanical course.
From the forums and threads im seeing every day, it seems that there are masses of people still interested in looking after their classics, or preparing their car to track day or compete (or is this a blinkered view as Im looking at this from a Petrolhead forum perspective!?
Dom, I can speak with a degree of authority having been a prior student in this field, pursuing the highest attainable qualification in the field at a certain Oxfordshire College in the late 90's.
It was an utter shambles, and resulted in almost two years' wasted time, a dismantled TR6 and a class-action lawsuit (no pun intended). Which we won.
Having said that, not all courses are the same and this may well be a "good" one, but my concern would be that there is a lot of time when you aren't learning, and you are trying to cover many areas in a very short space of time. At best you might acheive moderate competence in a few of them, but you would have (in my humble opinion) to have a degree of natural ability and perhaps some experience/sympathy with the skills to acheive anything worth giving up a job for over a study year.
I can do a lot of basic restoration tasks very badly, perhaps if I wanted to acheive one skill I could have hoped to be competent after the course I went on, but to cover all of them? forget it.
Don't forget to establish the skill set of those teaching you too. Our students knew considerably more than the teachers which was one of the reasons the whole thing went skywards.
Also - an employer isn't going to give to hoots about the qualification over experience.
I think you would learn more getting work (paid or unpaid) for a restorer on the proviso they coach you. Look at Apprenticeship schemes too and maybe approach a restorer, I think there may be tax breaks. At least you would be using every hour of the day to learn, which you won't on a course as they rarely fill the day.
These course are fine for the DIY hobbyist, a couple of hours welding or wheeling a week for a few weeks is not going to get you through the door at Rod Jolley's, but if you offered to help out unpaid in exchange for some coaching, you will quickly pick it up (or find out you're no good!).
In answer to your points:
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this) So the time spent is crucial to be used wisely - you could find someone to work for in Belgium I bet?
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time. See above!
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job. Keep the £3k for living expenses while working unpaid.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!! Not surprised, skilled restorers can find work that pays better han teaching.
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!? Emphaticaly no!
So, (gulp) give me your thoughts, ideas, suggestions for a reasonable solution to my scenario.
Cheers
Dom
It was an utter shambles, and resulted in almost two years' wasted time, a dismantled TR6 and a class-action lawsuit (no pun intended). Which we won.
Having said that, not all courses are the same and this may well be a "good" one, but my concern would be that there is a lot of time when you aren't learning, and you are trying to cover many areas in a very short space of time. At best you might acheive moderate competence in a few of them, but you would have (in my humble opinion) to have a degree of natural ability and perhaps some experience/sympathy with the skills to acheive anything worth giving up a job for over a study year.
I can do a lot of basic restoration tasks very badly, perhaps if I wanted to acheive one skill I could have hoped to be competent after the course I went on, but to cover all of them? forget it.
Don't forget to establish the skill set of those teaching you too. Our students knew considerably more than the teachers which was one of the reasons the whole thing went skywards.
Also - an employer isn't going to give to hoots about the qualification over experience.
I think you would learn more getting work (paid or unpaid) for a restorer on the proviso they coach you. Look at Apprenticeship schemes too and maybe approach a restorer, I think there may be tax breaks. At least you would be using every hour of the day to learn, which you won't on a course as they rarely fill the day.
These course are fine for the DIY hobbyist, a couple of hours welding or wheeling a week for a few weeks is not going to get you through the door at Rod Jolley's, but if you offered to help out unpaid in exchange for some coaching, you will quickly pick it up (or find out you're no good!).
In answer to your points:
A911DOM said:
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this) So the time spent is crucial to be used wisely - you could find someone to work for in Belgium I bet?
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time. See above!
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job. Keep the £3k for living expenses while working unpaid.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!! Not surprised, skilled restorers can find work that pays better han teaching.
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!? Emphaticaly no!
So, (gulp) give me your thoughts, ideas, suggestions for a reasonable solution to my scenario.
Cheers
Dom
I have to agree- to do something well enough takes lots of experience. Whcih will only come with time. You can speed this up by buying lots of metal, and lots of gas and practising every day, but that costs a lot of money.
Persoanlly, I would choose a topic and try to do it evry well, rather then a bit of everything
Persoanlly, I would choose a topic and try to do it evry well, rather then a bit of everything
Thanks chaps, I appreciate the feedback and I guess I knew that I wouldnt come out the end of the course being able to rebuild a historic car with the skills I'd learned.
I think I have an 'inkling' with regards all these things but its the hands on experience which I lack (with no parents or siblings being mechanically minded etc).
Is there likely to be a restorer or business out there that would take the risk of having a novice in whether you're unpaid or not, and I dont need lessons on how to brew up and put biccies on a plate
I'm realistic, but also quite desperately bored in my work, I'd love to work with more confidence on my own vehicles, and learn some of the niche skills such as welding and small scale fabrication in order to renovate / tidy up older cars.
So what to do... If someone would let me work with them would I pick up enough info (concentrating on 1 subject) in say a week!? No, Im not trying to say that Im going to be able to replace years of experience with a weeks messing around, but to then go away and have the basic knowledge to practice myself (at the risk of my own car / metal) or am I still being totally unrealistic.
In answer to one of the questions above - Its very difficult for me to even get advice or the materials here as I dont speak French or Flemish (well, just a little tiny bit) so Im not going to understand enough or even explain what Im asking for. The market is very different over here too, I dont have a Halfords or a Machine Mart I can just waltz into and buy bits from either - Its very annoying from that perspective!
Not sure where to go with this now. Maybe I just have to hope that I run into someone at a trackday or via PH etc at some point who mentions that they could do with an extra pair of hands on a 'project'.
Cheers
I think I have an 'inkling' with regards all these things but its the hands on experience which I lack (with no parents or siblings being mechanically minded etc).
Is there likely to be a restorer or business out there that would take the risk of having a novice in whether you're unpaid or not, and I dont need lessons on how to brew up and put biccies on a plate
I'm realistic, but also quite desperately bored in my work, I'd love to work with more confidence on my own vehicles, and learn some of the niche skills such as welding and small scale fabrication in order to renovate / tidy up older cars.
So what to do... If someone would let me work with them would I pick up enough info (concentrating on 1 subject) in say a week!? No, Im not trying to say that Im going to be able to replace years of experience with a weeks messing around, but to then go away and have the basic knowledge to practice myself (at the risk of my own car / metal) or am I still being totally unrealistic.
In answer to one of the questions above - Its very difficult for me to even get advice or the materials here as I dont speak French or Flemish (well, just a little tiny bit) so Im not going to understand enough or even explain what Im asking for. The market is very different over here too, I dont have a Halfords or a Machine Mart I can just waltz into and buy bits from either - Its very annoying from that perspective!
Not sure where to go with this now. Maybe I just have to hope that I run into someone at a trackday or via PH etc at some point who mentions that they could do with an extra pair of hands on a 'project'.
Cheers
A911DOM said:
I have found this http://www.lct.ac.uk/vehiclerestoration.asp which seems to be exactly what I need - However!!!
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
qns: 1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
- how many people do they need to run the course?
- how many are interested?
- when does it start?
- how long does it last?
oh, and thanks for the link!
i am potentially interested. i am applying for voluntary redundancy at the moment and am having one of those 'wtf should i do next' moments. doing this 3 days a week might be just my thing. i also live an hour away and have 3 cheap spare bedrooms!
do you have any more info?
shirt said:
A911DOM said:
I have found this http://www.lct.ac.uk/vehiclerestoration.asp which seems to be exactly what I need - However!!!
1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
qns: 1) Its in Leeds (Im currently based in Belgium but could/would consider relocating for a year to do something like this)
2) Its 3 days a week, so i'd either need to travel back each week to be with family (damned expensive), or find something else to do in that time.
3) Whilst the course fee seems very reasonable at under 3k, Im going to need to pay for accomodation, food, travel etc etc whilst having given up my job.
4) Having spoken to the head guy there via email, unbelievably it appears that they may have to cancel this years course as there arent enough people to run it... Very sad!!!
5) Should I expect to be employable in this field once Ive passed the course!?
- how many people do they need to run the course?
- how many are interested?
- when does it start?
- how long does it last?
oh, and thanks for the link!
i am potentially interested. i am applying for voluntary redundancy at the moment and am having one of those 'wtf should i do next' moments. doing this 3 days a week might be just my thing. i also live an hour away and have 3 cheap spare bedrooms!
do you have any more info?
The course sounds great for an introduction to a wide variety of skills, but as has been said above, it wont make you an expert in any of them.
I would recommend you hit the link, send the contact guy a mail and I wouldnt mind betting you'll have a reply back today! They were very friendly when I contacted them!
Im hoping that if things carry on as they are for me at the moment (workwise) then I might take the plunge next year and just do it to get some basic knowledge under my belt!
I wish I could just sign up and go for it now (hopefully also tipping the numbers in their favour, as there is a risk they may not have enough potential students to run the course this year!!!)
Let us know how you get on
The other way to build up your skills could be evening classes.
My Dad has two pre war cars and to do bits he can't do at home he goes to non vocational model engineering (machine shop) and non vocational welding.
The non vocational model engineering is split pretty much 50/50 with people doing up bits of vintage/classic car and people building working steam engines. Basically if you know what you are doing, they let you get on with it, if not, they teach you how, and you have access to a college machine shop.
The welding is a similar set up, but without the steam engines and more garden gates.
Dad's been going for years and has learnt loads of skills in both machining and welding. The only draw back I think is that it's one evening a week during term time, so if you have a big project it can take a bit of time.
My Dad has two pre war cars and to do bits he can't do at home he goes to non vocational model engineering (machine shop) and non vocational welding.
The non vocational model engineering is split pretty much 50/50 with people doing up bits of vintage/classic car and people building working steam engines. Basically if you know what you are doing, they let you get on with it, if not, they teach you how, and you have access to a college machine shop.
The welding is a similar set up, but without the steam engines and more garden gates.
Dad's been going for years and has learnt loads of skills in both machining and welding. The only draw back I think is that it's one evening a week during term time, so if you have a big project it can take a bit of time.
Great idea, possibly not much help to our overseas OP, but in the UK I know lots of colleges run these evening classes.
For body work you can practice a lot at home on an old door or wing, once you know how to lead load or fill and a spray booth that can take a panel is a lot smaller than one that can take a car.
The most I learned on my course was acheived in a week spent in a French college (exchange programme) beating up a 306 wing and an R5 door and then lead loading them and painting them. It took 5 days pretty much solid work but the results weren't at all bad (from my co-students too I hasten to add!).
Gave me a taste for paintwork I must admit.
For body work you can practice a lot at home on an old door or wing, once you know how to lead load or fill and a spray booth that can take a panel is a lot smaller than one that can take a car.
The most I learned on my course was acheived in a week spent in a French college (exchange programme) beating up a 306 wing and an R5 door and then lead loading them and painting them. It took 5 days pretty much solid work but the results weren't at all bad (from my co-students too I hasten to add!).
Gave me a taste for paintwork I must admit.
Theres an advert in the back of C&SC from a www.contourautocraft.co.uk offering "expert practical instruction in the art of traditional sheet metal body work" if thats any use, failing that Frost's do instruction books / dvd's etc to go with the restoration tools and will happily ship worldwide 
I'll take a look at these books / dvds etc.
One of the Thaddeous (sp?) brothers has a bodywork restoration book out as well - which I may have already ordered from Amazon (cant remember if that one slipped by the Mrs radar with her latest shopping cart full of kids stuff).
I had seen the contourcraft ads, and also found them during my scouring of the interweb for courses etc... It reads a little more 'traditional' than Im looking for - I might be way off the mark here, but I wanted something that was going to be directly relevant to my sort of cars - 70's 80's etc. Their ad looks a little more 'vintage' orientated!?
One of the Thaddeous (sp?) brothers has a bodywork restoration book out as well - which I may have already ordered from Amazon (cant remember if that one slipped by the Mrs radar with her latest shopping cart full of kids stuff).
I had seen the contourcraft ads, and also found them during my scouring of the interweb for courses etc... It reads a little more 'traditional' than Im looking for - I might be way off the mark here, but I wanted something that was going to be directly relevant to my sort of cars - 70's 80's etc. Their ad looks a little more 'vintage' orientated!?
[quote=shirt
i am potentially interested. i am applying for voluntary redundancy at the moment and am having one of those 'wtf should i do next' moments. doing this 3 days a week might be just my thing. i also live an hour away and have 3 cheap spare bedrooms!
do you have any more info?
[/quote]
Shirt,
Did you look into this further? Have any joy? I would be very interested to hear how someone got on on this course!
i am potentially interested. i am applying for voluntary redundancy at the moment and am having one of those 'wtf should i do next' moments. doing this 3 days a week might be just my thing. i also live an hour away and have 3 cheap spare bedrooms!
do you have any more info?
[/quote]
Shirt,
Did you look into this further? Have any joy? I would be very interested to hear how someone got on on this course!
I've posted this before (more than once!!!!!!)
'Gonna be controversial here!
You're best bet is to find a good (and be warned there ain't many) restoration shop close to you, get to know the owner, put in some voluntary time there hands on & get to know what areas are of interest to you & best suit your skills.
If you are prepared to show some enthusiasm & an ability to learn on the job it is the best grounding you will get.
With no disrespect intended to the previous poster studying at Colchester, but I have employed a few guys from there & haven't been terribly impressed I'm afraid.'
I have lifted this from a reply I made about 2 yrs ago so please disregard the specific previous post ref! But I have VERY, VERY strong feelings on this having been cought on the employing side of these courses, not sure how far I can expand on this given p/h's ultra conservative policy! But if you really need any more info I'll happily post & then see if it gets deleted/I get banned!
If you would care to check how qualified I am to make this comment then have a look at the website on my profile!
Hope this helps?
Best wishes & good luck, Al.
'Gonna be controversial here!
You're best bet is to find a good (and be warned there ain't many) restoration shop close to you, get to know the owner, put in some voluntary time there hands on & get to know what areas are of interest to you & best suit your skills.
If you are prepared to show some enthusiasm & an ability to learn on the job it is the best grounding you will get.
With no disrespect intended to the previous poster studying at Colchester, but I have employed a few guys from there & haven't been terribly impressed I'm afraid.'
I have lifted this from a reply I made about 2 yrs ago so please disregard the specific previous post ref! But I have VERY, VERY strong feelings on this having been cought on the employing side of these courses, not sure how far I can expand on this given p/h's ultra conservative policy! But if you really need any more info I'll happily post & then see if it gets deleted/I get banned!
If you would care to check how qualified I am to make this comment then have a look at the website on my profile!
Hope this helps?
Best wishes & good luck, Al.
Taking car restoration or bodywork restoration courses,
I did the Colchester Intitute course ( now defunct) about 22 years ago, I then went on to teach there part time for a good number of years on and off. This course was the first of its type and the qualification was a Citty and Guilds diploma. The course was a two year full time course and we did aboout 34 hours of classes a week which took up more about 40 hours of time. This was a very good course when I did it but as other colleges jumped on the bandwagon the applicants began to be watered down, lecturers changed and the whole thing lost direction.
Many of the people in my year are now quite succesfull several went to work for Rod Jolly, one now owns and runs vintagecars.com and several of us run our own businesses or work for some of the top places in the country. Unfortunatly there are not any courses of this type any more as faras I know. I think that the leads course is quite good but because of the funding situaion I dont believe thay can offer what the Colchester Institute course used to offer in the early days. I still teach -part time at Colchester Institute but there is no full time course.
I just thought to add that there is a skills shortage in this field and if you got good at any of the skills you will have no shortage of work, good craftsmen are hard to find! check out my profile and you will see that I have experience enough to advise.
I did the Colchester Intitute course ( now defunct) about 22 years ago, I then went on to teach there part time for a good number of years on and off. This course was the first of its type and the qualification was a Citty and Guilds diploma. The course was a two year full time course and we did aboout 34 hours of classes a week which took up more about 40 hours of time. This was a very good course when I did it but as other colleges jumped on the bandwagon the applicants began to be watered down, lecturers changed and the whole thing lost direction.
Many of the people in my year are now quite succesfull several went to work for Rod Jolly, one now owns and runs vintagecars.com and several of us run our own businesses or work for some of the top places in the country. Unfortunatly there are not any courses of this type any more as faras I know. I think that the leads course is quite good but because of the funding situaion I dont believe thay can offer what the Colchester Institute course used to offer in the early days. I still teach -part time at Colchester Institute but there is no full time course.
I just thought to add that there is a skills shortage in this field and if you got good at any of the skills you will have no shortage of work, good craftsmen are hard to find! check out my profile and you will see that I have experience enough to advise.
Edited by Mindover on Thursday 13th August 09:35
Edited by Mindover on Thursday 13th August 09:46
Edited by Mindover on Thursday 13th August 11:12
Thanks for the responses and valuable advice chaps.
Both very impressive website and CV's!
(Mindover - you have put an extra 'space' in your website address from your profile, I couldnt get a page initially until i looked closer at the link!)
Location is half of my problem, Im outside the UK at the moment, and although there are a lot of english speakers around, it is not going to be easy to land myself an 'apprentice' type role (and to be honest the bodyshops Ive seen so far here are not really worthy of note).
Im pretty sure I could do well as an understudy, and I guess the reason I was initially looking at an 'all encompassing' course is that I dont have the experience in any of the fields required to start restoring. I can tinker with cars at home, and have recently stripped out a 944 to take on the track. But this is FAR from the sort of experience and skills I feel I'd like to have in order to tackle the jobs properly.
I appreciate the feedback, and will bear all your comments in mind!
Cheers
Both very impressive website and CV's!
(Mindover - you have put an extra 'space' in your website address from your profile, I couldnt get a page initially until i looked closer at the link!)
Location is half of my problem, Im outside the UK at the moment, and although there are a lot of english speakers around, it is not going to be easy to land myself an 'apprentice' type role (and to be honest the bodyshops Ive seen so far here are not really worthy of note).
Im pretty sure I could do well as an understudy, and I guess the reason I was initially looking at an 'all encompassing' course is that I dont have the experience in any of the fields required to start restoring. I can tinker with cars at home, and have recently stripped out a 944 to take on the track. But this is FAR from the sort of experience and skills I feel I'd like to have in order to tackle the jobs properly.
I appreciate the feedback, and will bear all your comments in mind!
Cheers
Sorry for the bump:
Looks like the job could be on the rocks - Anyone got any openings for a mature (37), hard working, enthusiastic apprentice? I'd like to learn all aspects of restoration from basic mechanics to welding, fabrication and painting.
Hey, if you dont ask you dont get right
Looks like the job could be on the rocks - Anyone got any openings for a mature (37), hard working, enthusiastic apprentice? I'd like to learn all aspects of restoration from basic mechanics to welding, fabrication and painting.
Hey, if you dont ask you dont get right
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