E type, what would you do?
Discussion
I have a 2+2 series II 4.2, 1969 LHD.
I bought it in 1999 from the UK.
Had it fettled by a friend in Holcombe in Devon. (Vintage Sunbeam specialists).
Took it to Brussels and used it as a daily driver. I was renovating a town house
and being a 2+2, it could carry four or five bags of cement at speed with ease!
In October 2003 it was stolen (complete with roof rack for transporting a bath the day before).
It transpired that one of the two policies that covered it had lapsed, namely the one including theft.
Theft reported to the Belgian Police, Car put on the "Schengen List".
I went over to England and bought an XJS and contacted my insurance broker for a quote. Seriously over the top, BUT, he said that he had seen an E type in a museum cum showroom in Holland and that it looked very much like mine.
I looked at their site and sure enough, it was my car.
I told the police in Brussels, they called the police in Holland who went to see the car and confirmed that the chassis and engine numbers tallied.
They would not take any action however as the owners of said "museum" assured them that they had bought it in good faith.
They had however re-registered it on Dutch plates despite it having an alert on it on the Schengen list.
I drove to Holland, paid 6.70 euros entrance fee to see my car, asked to see the owner of the "museum", he wasn't there. Went to the local police station and made a statement, asked for a copy and they refused to comply. (Small town, man at museum infuential, big employer?)
I had a classic car enthusiast contact at Baker and Mc Kenzie who wrote to them but they were not scared by the threat of legal proceeding through one of Europe's largest legal firms.
Now for some strange reason, Maitre Gerard, a Belgian Instructing Magistrate caught sight of the dossier and decided to do something.
In the spring of 2006, I recieved a call from Maitre Gerard saying that the car had been located in a garage in Holland and that he was sending a truck with two policemen to recover it. Was I prepared to pay 420 euros?
Sure.
The car came back totally stripped and in the early stages of restoration, very early, and missing bonnet.
I placed it with a specialist in Brussels and asked him to start putting it back together. He said "I don't want one of those long projects" and I said "neither do I,here's some money to start, call me when you need more". No call but he needs the space now.
Front end spaceframe sprayed dark green, engine back in with ancillaries, ready to run less exhaust.
Glass and interior hopefully in some boxes but could be missing lots of little bits.
It's a 2+2.Those that know E types will know what I mean. It will take the same amount of work and money as an earlier roadster but will be worth a fraction at the end.
So, what would you do?
I bought it in 1999 from the UK.
Had it fettled by a friend in Holcombe in Devon. (Vintage Sunbeam specialists).
Took it to Brussels and used it as a daily driver. I was renovating a town house
and being a 2+2, it could carry four or five bags of cement at speed with ease!
In October 2003 it was stolen (complete with roof rack for transporting a bath the day before).
It transpired that one of the two policies that covered it had lapsed, namely the one including theft.
Theft reported to the Belgian Police, Car put on the "Schengen List".
I went over to England and bought an XJS and contacted my insurance broker for a quote. Seriously over the top, BUT, he said that he had seen an E type in a museum cum showroom in Holland and that it looked very much like mine.
I looked at their site and sure enough, it was my car.
I told the police in Brussels, they called the police in Holland who went to see the car and confirmed that the chassis and engine numbers tallied.
They would not take any action however as the owners of said "museum" assured them that they had bought it in good faith.
They had however re-registered it on Dutch plates despite it having an alert on it on the Schengen list.
I drove to Holland, paid 6.70 euros entrance fee to see my car, asked to see the owner of the "museum", he wasn't there. Went to the local police station and made a statement, asked for a copy and they refused to comply. (Small town, man at museum infuential, big employer?)
I had a classic car enthusiast contact at Baker and Mc Kenzie who wrote to them but they were not scared by the threat of legal proceeding through one of Europe's largest legal firms.
Now for some strange reason, Maitre Gerard, a Belgian Instructing Magistrate caught sight of the dossier and decided to do something.
In the spring of 2006, I recieved a call from Maitre Gerard saying that the car had been located in a garage in Holland and that he was sending a truck with two policemen to recover it. Was I prepared to pay 420 euros?
Sure.
The car came back totally stripped and in the early stages of restoration, very early, and missing bonnet.
I placed it with a specialist in Brussels and asked him to start putting it back together. He said "I don't want one of those long projects" and I said "neither do I,here's some money to start, call me when you need more". No call but he needs the space now.
Front end spaceframe sprayed dark green, engine back in with ancillaries, ready to run less exhaust.
Glass and interior hopefully in some boxes but could be missing lots of little bits.
It's a 2+2.Those that know E types will know what I mean. It will take the same amount of work and money as an earlier roadster but will be worth a fraction at the end.
So, what would you do?
It doesn`t matter about value, it depends on how much the car is worth to you. Look at the positives,If you had have run it for 10 years or more you would have had maintenance expenditure during that time. Consider If used everyday it would probably need a resto by now . You have re possed your car successfully and it has been stored, away from salty roads and rain, rent free for 10 years.
So nows the time to strip it, rebuild and enjoy as everyone has said, if you can afford it.
So nows the time to strip it, rebuild and enjoy as everyone has said, if you can afford it.
Thanks for the replies, pretty unanimous so far!
I was thinking of selling it to finance a respray on my slightly modified MK II 3.8 which resides in the S of France, as I do half the time, the other half in Surrey.
Might bring the E type back to UK as I might have found some cheap barn space in Surrey.
Anyone know of a series 2 bonnet going cheap?
Hi 3.8MOD you should hold onto it.... what a great story …
Do you dive your XJS on UK plates ? ever around Gent ? just someone does as I’ve seen one locally for a few months… Would love to buy the E off you but I’m rather strapped for cash.. just brought a RHD Elise and fighting with the Belgium paperwork !
Might be able to help with storage if you ever get stuck….
Kindest regards
Matthew Mason
Do you dive your XJS on UK plates ? ever around Gent ? just someone does as I’ve seen one locally for a few months… Would love to buy the E off you but I’m rather strapped for cash.. just brought a RHD Elise and fighting with the Belgium paperwork !
Might be able to help with storage if you ever get stuck….
Kindest regards
Matthew Mason
Hi Mathew,
I'm no longer in Brussels and sold the XJS in S of France so it's not mine.
I insured the E type on UK plates in Brussels through a broker based in Ghent. His name is Bernard Dierick. I had two policies on it, one basic Belgian and a "top up" policy with Firebond. Unfortunately the correspondence asking if I wanted to renew the Firebond policy was sent in Flemish so I binned it. Ergo no cover.
He is a nice guy and but for the misunderstanding provided good service.
If you want to go and have a look at the E type it is in Brussels at Lemaco on rue Vanderkindere in Uccle. The proprietor is Marc. Make me an offer?
Jan.
I'm no longer in Brussels and sold the XJS in S of France so it's not mine.
I insured the E type on UK plates in Brussels through a broker based in Ghent. His name is Bernard Dierick. I had two policies on it, one basic Belgian and a "top up" policy with Firebond. Unfortunately the correspondence asking if I wanted to renew the Firebond policy was sent in Flemish so I binned it. Ergo no cover.
He is a nice guy and but for the misunderstanding provided good service.
If you want to go and have a look at the E type it is in Brussels at Lemaco on rue Vanderkindere in Uccle. The proprietor is Marc. Make me an offer?
Jan.
NDA said:
Feckin' thieving bastids. And how woefully inadequate the response to your legitimate enquiries - I'd be livid.
The car clearly wants to come home - restore and enjoy. Then name it Tintin.
Livid, I was. Time heals they say and to a great extent it's true but I've moved on since and the love affair has dulled slightly.The car clearly wants to come home - restore and enjoy. Then name it Tintin.
Just had a peep in your garage, obviously a man of taste and distinction, but how could you have lost the Aston???
3.8 MOD said:
Just had a peep in your garage, obviously a man of taste and distinction, but how could you have lost the Aston???
I had 3 and I rarely drove them. The Vanquish was beautiful but not ultimately satisfying (and rarely driven), the 1982 V8's brakes failed after spending £75k getting it sorted (so spat the dummy and sold) and the DBR2 was too tiny and scary (too noisy for Goodwood too). I owned it with a mate and it was a mutual idea to sell. The Ford GT is the perfect toy! 
I also don't work any more and the £8k+ insurance bill for the 'fleet' every January was becoming a bit painful along with school fees!! Fantastic story and the reluctance of the police to do anything about it is unforgiveable. I will only like to add that bringing the car back to its former glory or better is great. But if the car will always leave a bad taste in your mouth because of the trials and aggravation you went through to recover it I am not so sure. Only you can answer that.
As an example and way off topic, (and the first time this story has ever been told) back in 1993 I agreed a deal with a garage to build me a custom harley davidson. They where trying to get into the game but no one would commision them to build a bike. The deal was done to build a bike to my exact specification at cost including a brand new 98 S&S motor that they already had for £13,500 plus vat. The build created interest, my bike took six months to build as it kept being put on the back burner as other custom work was undertaken. However it was the first ground up build they ever completed. So here's the rub and I knew it was coming.
Two brothers, one that built the bike, absolutely stand up guy and meticulous. The other brother, greedy bast*rd salesman. The bike is finished I just need to pay a balance of £3k + vat. Greedy brother says, the bike has cost a lot more than we expected to build. Don't worry I know you have not got the money, We have a customer that will give us £25K for the bike and we'll refund the money you have paid us so far.
The next day I drove to Bournemouth (saturday) with the missus. Massive stand up row. They where shipping my bike and a number of others to france for a ride out. I got a court injunction out to prevent them removing the bike from this country as I thought I'd never see it again. Ir became a matter of principle and I was livid. In the end we agreed a settlement at a total cost of £16500 + the vat. I went on the ride out, met some great guys, one of whom I am best mates with to this day so worth that investment. However when the bike came back from France it had just over 2000 miles on the clock.
Today it has just over 3000 miles on the clock. In 16 years. I can't bring myself to use it as it always reminds me of the aggravation I went through to own it, with two guys I thought where good friends. I can't bring myself to sell it as the good guy who built it got killed in a motorcycle crash two years later. Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Apologies for the long post.
As an example and way off topic, (and the first time this story has ever been told) back in 1993 I agreed a deal with a garage to build me a custom harley davidson. They where trying to get into the game but no one would commision them to build a bike. The deal was done to build a bike to my exact specification at cost including a brand new 98 S&S motor that they already had for £13,500 plus vat. The build created interest, my bike took six months to build as it kept being put on the back burner as other custom work was undertaken. However it was the first ground up build they ever completed. So here's the rub and I knew it was coming.
Two brothers, one that built the bike, absolutely stand up guy and meticulous. The other brother, greedy bast*rd salesman. The bike is finished I just need to pay a balance of £3k + vat. Greedy brother says, the bike has cost a lot more than we expected to build. Don't worry I know you have not got the money, We have a customer that will give us £25K for the bike and we'll refund the money you have paid us so far.
The next day I drove to Bournemouth (saturday) with the missus. Massive stand up row. They where shipping my bike and a number of others to france for a ride out. I got a court injunction out to prevent them removing the bike from this country as I thought I'd never see it again. Ir became a matter of principle and I was livid. In the end we agreed a settlement at a total cost of £16500 + the vat. I went on the ride out, met some great guys, one of whom I am best mates with to this day so worth that investment. However when the bike came back from France it had just over 2000 miles on the clock.
Today it has just over 3000 miles on the clock. In 16 years. I can't bring myself to use it as it always reminds me of the aggravation I went through to own it, with two guys I thought where good friends. I can't bring myself to sell it as the good guy who built it got killed in a motorcycle crash two years later. Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Apologies for the long post.
Edited by graeme36s on Thursday 13th August 22:15
graeme36s said:
Fantastic story and the reluctance of the police to do anything about it is unforgiveable. I will only like to add that bringing the car back to its former glory or better is great. But if the car will always leave a bad taste in your mouth because of the trials and aggravation you went through to recover it I am not so sure. Only you can answer that.
As an example and way off topic, (and the first time this story has ever been told) back in 1993 I agreed a deal with a garage to build me a custom harley davidson. They where trying to get into the game but no one would commision them to build a bike. The deal was done to build a bike to my exact specification at cost including a brand new 98 S&S motor that they already had for £13,500 plus vat. The build created interest, my bike took six months to build as it kept being put on the back burner as other custom work was undertaken. However it was the first ground up build they ever completed. So here's the rub and I knew it was coming.
Two brothers, one that built the bike, absolutely stand up guy and meticulous. The other brother, greedy bast*rd salesman. The bike is finished I just need to pay a balance of £3k + vat. Greedy brother says, the bike has cost a lot more than we expected to build. Don't worry I know you have not got the money, We have a customer that will give us £25K for the bike and we'll refund the money you have paid us so far.
The next day I drove to Bournemouth (saturday) with the missus. Massive stand up row. They where shipping my bike and a number of others to france for a ride out. I got a court injunction out to prevent them removing the bike from this country as I thought I'd never see it again. Ir became a matter of principle and I was livid. In the end we agreed a settlement at a total cost of £16500 + the vat. I went on the ride out, met some great guys, one of whom I am best mates with to this day so worth that investment. However when the bike came back from France it had just over 2000 miles on the clock.
Today it has just over 3000 miles on the clock. In 16 years. I can't bring myself to use it as it always reminds me of the aggravation I went through to own it, with two guys I thought where good friends. I can't bring myself to sell it as the good guy who built it got killed in a motorcycle crash two years later. Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Apologies for the long post.
That is an interesting if somewhat sad story. Why not ride the bike, and enjoy it as a tribute to the guy who built it and died ? I'm sure it is what he would want.As an example and way off topic, (and the first time this story has ever been told) back in 1993 I agreed a deal with a garage to build me a custom harley davidson. They where trying to get into the game but no one would commision them to build a bike. The deal was done to build a bike to my exact specification at cost including a brand new 98 S&S motor that they already had for £13,500 plus vat. The build created interest, my bike took six months to build as it kept being put on the back burner as other custom work was undertaken. However it was the first ground up build they ever completed. So here's the rub and I knew it was coming.
Two brothers, one that built the bike, absolutely stand up guy and meticulous. The other brother, greedy bast*rd salesman. The bike is finished I just need to pay a balance of £3k + vat. Greedy brother says, the bike has cost a lot more than we expected to build. Don't worry I know you have not got the money, We have a customer that will give us £25K for the bike and we'll refund the money you have paid us so far.
The next day I drove to Bournemouth (saturday) with the missus. Massive stand up row. They where shipping my bike and a number of others to france for a ride out. I got a court injunction out to prevent them removing the bike from this country as I thought I'd never see it again. Ir became a matter of principle and I was livid. In the end we agreed a settlement at a total cost of £16500 + the vat. I went on the ride out, met some great guys, one of whom I am best mates with to this day so worth that investment. However when the bike came back from France it had just over 2000 miles on the clock.
Today it has just over 3000 miles on the clock. In 16 years. I can't bring myself to use it as it always reminds me of the aggravation I went through to own it, with two guys I thought where good friends. I can't bring myself to sell it as the good guy who built it got killed in a motorcycle crash two years later. Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Apologies for the long post.
Edited by graeme36s on Thursday 13th August 22:15
Yep you are right. I promised my self this year I would use it. Broke my hip two weeks ago so that has ruined that idea. Next year definately. A very good mate and first class mechanic of any order popped over yesterday and we talked about the bike amongst other things. It needs the rear tyre re sealed as it goes flat within two days. Probably corrosion on the inside of the aluminium rim. I have the original build sheet so I want him to check the original crane cams and goody bits are still in their as I think a spanner who will remain nameless pilfered them. Peformance for an HD was awesome. You could crack the throttle, dissapear up the road at a massive rate of knots and would leave a black line all the way. it has not done that for many years. 2010 will be different, promise and as you say in the good memory of Dean Battistini.
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