Classic Car Child Seat Regulations?
Discussion
Hello,
Can someone tell me if it would be legal to fit a forward facing child's car seat in a '64 E-Type Coupe with lap belts on the passenger seat? I can't see why not because there are no airbags or anything like that, and the lap belt would not allow the seat to move forward in a frontal impact. I'm wondering what would happen in the event of a rear impact - would the seat back collapse I wonder?
The car is fully rebuilt, structurally sound and has brand new seat belts.
Thanks,
Can someone tell me if it would be legal to fit a forward facing child's car seat in a '64 E-Type Coupe with lap belts on the passenger seat? I can't see why not because there are no airbags or anything like that, and the lap belt would not allow the seat to move forward in a frontal impact. I'm wondering what would happen in the event of a rear impact - would the seat back collapse I wonder?
The car is fully rebuilt, structurally sound and has brand new seat belts.
Thanks,
So long as the child seat is type approved then I understand that it's OK.
The problem comes when trying to use non approved seats. I have a letter from the Minister of Transport saying I can legally carry my children in the rear seats of my 1958 XK150 without seatbelts or any form of restrain or child seat but that if I put seat belts on them I must have them in a type approved seat, even though the ministry accept that doing so would result in major spinal injuries to the children in even a very minor accident.
What you need to do is find a child seat that will sit on the E-Types seat OK and can be held securely in place with the lap belt.
You could try talking to Quick Fit in Stanmore (not the tyre people) I don't know whether Stuart Quick is still there. They specialise in fitting safety systems to classic cars. He also used to advise the government on some of this stuff, back when they listened to advise.
Feel free to PM me if you want more information and I'll try and dig some more of my stuff out from when I was fighting through this when the law changed a couple of years ago.
The problem comes when trying to use non approved seats. I have a letter from the Minister of Transport saying I can legally carry my children in the rear seats of my 1958 XK150 without seatbelts or any form of restrain or child seat but that if I put seat belts on them I must have them in a type approved seat, even though the ministry accept that doing so would result in major spinal injuries to the children in even a very minor accident.
What you need to do is find a child seat that will sit on the E-Types seat OK and can be held securely in place with the lap belt.
You could try talking to Quick Fit in Stanmore (not the tyre people) I don't know whether Stuart Quick is still there. They specialise in fitting safety systems to classic cars. He also used to advise the government on some of this stuff, back when they listened to advise.
Feel free to PM me if you want more information and I'll try and dig some more of my stuff out from when I was fighting through this when the law changed a couple of years ago.
a8hex said:
...but that if I put seat belts on them I must have them in a type approved seat, even though the ministry accept that doing so would result in major spinal injuries to the children in even a very minor accident...
Thanks for the advice, but I'm not sure I fully understand what you wrote - you seem to be saying from reading the above that spinal injuries would be caused if the children *were* in child seats as opposed to if they were totally unrestrained?The seat I am thinking of is for a 20 month old child, and is fitted with side head padding and has its own integral 5-point harness. It's an approved seat and it's only a year old - we use it every day in a modern car. So long as this seat is fitted securely I can't see how it could do anything but benefit the child in the event of any accident.
Half of me just thinks it's a stupid idea to travel with a child that young in an old car, but then again where do you draw the line in terms of wrapping your kids in cotton wool? It's not like I'd be driving like an idiot.
Cheers,
Cheers,
dr_gn said:
a8hex said:
...but that if I put seat belts on them I must have them in a type approved seat, even though the ministry accept that doing so would result in major spinal injuries to the children in even a very minor accident...
Thanks for the advice, but I'm not sure I fully understand what you wrote - you seem to be saying from reading the above that spinal injuries would be caused if the children *were* in child seats as opposed to if they were totally unrestrained?The potential for spinal injury I mentioned results from fitting booster seats to cars with short backs and then having the top mounting for the shoulder belt below the height of the seat back and below the child's shoulder. That way as the child's momentum carries them forward the seat belt instead of holding them in place allows them to move forward and the belt them squashes their shoulder and spine downwards with consequence that you just don't even want to think about.
In your case you are talking about a full child seat with full support for the child. The car's belt is purely being used to hold the child seat. Many of these seats in effect only use the lap portion of the 3 point standard seat belt. Just make sure that the seat belt holds the child seat rigidly in place.
A lap belt would never lead to the consequence I was talking about anyway.
My gripe was that I had had the car modified by the company that the DoT recommend as being THE specialists in the field, to be as safe for the children as possible. The new law and therefore the DoT then insisted that I placed a booster seat on top of child sized seats and made a clearly dangerous situation, out of a safer one. They were also happy that I could legally carry the children without any safety equipment due to the age of the car. But if I wanted to use a seat belt, I had to then comply with the new EU regs. A copper from PH eventually told me that the maximum penalty would be £30 fine & no points for carrying the kids in the seat belts without the dangerous booster. He also thought the court case against me would lead to very amusing headlines in the next days papers.
dr_gn said:
OK that makes sense now - Thanks.
I looked at the Quick Fit website and it turns out that lap belts on a '64 car are illegal anyway! Wonder how it got through it's MOT for the past 7 years...if I remove them altogether it's legal again. Wierd.
Cheers,
I think you've misread the regs here. Seat belts became compulsory for cars registered after 1/1/65 and before were optional. However, once retro-fitted they must be worn. They aren't I think you'll find, illegal, just not compulsory. Provided the belt itself conforms then you are fine.I looked at the Quick Fit website and it turns out that lap belts on a '64 car are illegal anyway! Wonder how it got through it's MOT for the past 7 years...if I remove them altogether it's legal again. Wierd.
Cheers,
dr_gn said:
Half of me just thinks it's a stupid idea to travel with a child that young in an old car, but then again where do you draw the line in terms of wrapping your kids in cotton wool? It's not like I'd be driving like an idiot.
That's how I feel about taking my kids in the 1951 Healey - 3 point belts in the front, laps in the back. It doesn't need to have belts at all, but I just can't drive without them, nor would I want the kids in the car without them.Like you, I don't drive it like an idiot, it doesn't go and stop like a modern so I always have more space in reserve than the already adequate amount I have when in a modern.
When my now 13 yr old was 18 months I took her out in the Frogeye (in her car seat) for a quick run round the block to see how she liked it, and when we got back she just said "More" so we went a bit further and has been coming with me to club events ever since, so I am all for giving kids the experience.
lowdrag said:
dr_gn said:
OK that makes sense now - Thanks.
I looked at the Quick Fit website and it turns out that lap belts on a '64 car are illegal anyway! Wonder how it got through it's MOT for the past 7 years...if I remove them altogether it's legal again. Wierd.
Cheers,
I think you've misread the regs here. Seat belts became compulsory for cars registered after 1/1/65 and before were optional. However, once retro-fitted they must be worn. They aren't I think you'll find, illegal, just not compulsory. Provided the belt itself conforms then you are fine.I looked at the Quick Fit website and it turns out that lap belts on a '64 car are illegal anyway! Wonder how it got through it's MOT for the past 7 years...if I remove them altogether it's legal again. Wierd.
Cheers,
"Lap straps are not a legal fit for front seats in Europe for post 1963 cars and we would not recommend them unless it really is your only option."
I've also got a 1962 MGB which I fitted with three point belts (non-inertia). They are not very comfortable since you can't lean forward when wearing them, which is why I went for lap belts in the E-Type (better than nothing I assumed). That was before we had a child. Safety seems much more of a priority now! Might just replace the lot with three point inertia belts.
Here is the 1993 law for you - if it helps! You'll not the specific exemption for pre 1965 cars and no mention (it seems) as to the type of belt for children should they be later fitted, with the exception that if a proper child belt cannot be fitted then an alternative will comply.
STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
1993 No. 31
ROAD TRAFFIC
The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations 1993
Made 11th January 1993
Laid before Parliament 12th January 1993
Coming into force 2nd February 1993
The Secretary of State for Transport, in exercise of the powers conferred by section 15(1), (5), (5A) and (6) of the Road Traffic Act 1988[1], and all other enabling powers, and after consultation with representative organisations in accordance with section 195(2) of that Act, hereby makes the following Regulations:—
Citation, commencement and revocations
1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations 1993 and shall come into force on 2nd February 1993.
(2) The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children) Regulations 1982[2] are hereby revoked.
General interpretation
2.—(1) In these Regulations—
"the Act" means the Road Traffic Act 1988;
"Construction and Use Regulations" means the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986[3];
"front seat", in relation to a vehicle, means a seat which is wholly or partially in the front of the vehicle and "rear seat", in relation to a vehicle, means any seat which is not a front seat (see also regulation 4);
"maximum laden weight" has the meaning given by Part IV of Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984[4];
"medical certificate" has the meaning given in Schedule 1 to these Regulations;
"restraint system" means a system combining a seat fixed to the structure of the vehicle by appropriate means and a seat belt for which at least one anchorage point is located on the seat structure;
"seat belt", except in this Regulation, includes a child restraint and references to wearing a seat belt shall be construed accordingly;
"disabled person's belt", "lap belt", "seat", and "three point belt" have the meanings given by regulation 47(8) of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(2) Without prejudice to section 17 of the Interpretation Act 1978[5], a reference to a provision of the Construction and Use Regulations is a reference to that provision as from time to time amended or as from time to time re-enacted with or without modification.
(3) In these regulations—
"child" means a person under the age of 14 years;
"large child" means a child who is not a small child; and
"small child" means a child who is—
(a) aged under 12 years; and
(b) under 150 centimetres in height.
(4) In these Regulations, "adult belt" means a seat belt in respect of which one or more of the following requirements is satisfied, namely that—
(a) it is a three-point belt which has been marked in accordance with regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations;
(b) it is a lap belt which has been so marked;
(c) it is a seat belt that falls within regulation 47(4)(c)(i) or (ii) of those Regulations;
(d) it is a seat belt fitted in a relevant vehicle ("the vehicle in question") and comprised in a restraint system—
(i) of a type which has been approved by an authority of another member State for use by all persons who are either aged 13 years or more or of150 centimetres or more in height, and
(ii) in respect of which, by virtue of such approval, the requirements of the law of another member State corresponding to these Regulations would be met were it to be worn by persons who are either aged 13 years or more or of150 centimetres or more in height when travelling in the vehicle in question in that State.
(5) In these Regulations, "child restraint" means a seat belt or other device in respect of which the following requirements are satisfied, namely that—
(a) it is a seat belt or any other description of restraining device for the use of a child which is—
(i) designed either to be fitted directly to a suitable anchorage or to be used in conjunction with an adult belt and held in place by the restraining action of that belt, and
(ii) marked in accordance with regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations; or
(b) it is a seat belt consisting of or comprised in a restraint system fitted in a relevant vehicle ("the vehicle in question"), being a restraint system—
(i) of a type which has been approved by an authority of another member State for use by a child, and
(ii) in respect of which, by virtue of such approval, the requirements of the law of that State corresponding to these Regulations would be met were it to be worn by a child when travelling in the vehicle in question in that State.
(6) Subject to paragraph (7), for the purposes of these Regulations, a seat shall be regarded as provided with an adult belt if an adult belt is fixed in such a position that it can be worn by an occupier of that seat.
(7) A seat shall not be regarded as provided with an adult belt if the belt—
(a) has an inertia reel mechanism which is locked as a result of the vehicle being, or having been, on a steep incline, or
(b) does not comply with the requirements of regulation 48 of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(8) For the purposes of these Regulations, a seat shall be regarded as provided with a child restraint if a child restraint is—
(a) fixed in such a position that it can be worn by an occupier of that seat, or
(b) elsewhere in or on the vehicle but—
(i) could readily be fixed in such a position without the aid of tools, and
(ii) is not being worn by a child for whom it is appropriate and who is occupying another seat.
(9) For the purposes of these Regulations, a seat belt is appropriate—
(a) in relation to a child aged under 3 years, if it is a child restraint of a description prescribed for a child of his height and weight by regulation 5;
(b) in relation to a child aged 3 years or more, if it is a child restraint of a description prescribed for a child of his height and weight by regulation 5 or is an adult belt; or
(c) in relation to a person aged 14 years or more, if it is an adult belt.
(10) Unless the context otherwise requires, in these Regulations—
(a) any reference to a numbered regulation is a reference to the regulation bearing that number in these Regulations; and
(b) a numbered paragraph is a reference to the paragraph bearing that number in the regulation or Schedule in which the reference appears.
Interpretation of references to relevant vehicles
3.—(1) In these Regulations, "relevant vehicle" means—
(a) a passenger car,
(b) a light goods vehicle, or
(c) a small bus.
(2) For the purposes of this regulation—
"light goods vehicle" means a goods vehicle which—
(a) has four or more wheels,
(b) has a maximum design speed exceeding 25 kilometres per hour,
(c) has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes;
"passenger car" has the same meaning as in section 15 of the Act;
"small bus" means a motor vehicle which—
(a) is constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of passengers and is not a goods vehicle,
(b) has more than 8 seats in addition to the driver's seat,
(c) has four or more wheels,
(d) has a maximum design speed exceeding 25 kilometres per hour,
(e) has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, and
(f) is not constructed or adapted for the carriage of standing passengers.
Interpretation of references to the front of a vehicle
4.—(1) This regulation has effect for the purpose of defining in relation to a vehicle what part of the vehicle is to be regarded as the front of the vehicle for the purposes of section 15(1) of the Act and these Regulations.
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), every part of the vehicle forward of the transverse vertical plane passing through the rearmost part of the driver's seat shall be regarded as the front of the vehicle; and accordingly no part of the vehicle to the rear of that plane shall be regarded as being in the front of the vehicle.
(3) Where a vehicle has a deck which is above the level of the driver's head when he is in the normal driving position, no part of the vehicle above that level shall be regarded as being in the front of the vehicle.
Description of seat belts to be worn by children
5.—(1) For a child of any particular height and weight travelling in a particular vehicle, the description of seat belt prescribed for the purposes of section 15(1) of the Act to be worn by him is—
(a) if he is a small child and the vehicle is a relevant vehicle, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) of paragraph (2);
(b) if he is a small child and the vehicle is not a relevant vehicle, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) of paragraph (2);
(c) if he is a large child, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) of paragraph (2) or an adult belt.
(2) The descriptions of seat belt referred to in paragraph (1) are—
(a) a child restraint with the marking required under regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations if the marking indicates that it is suitable for his weight and either indicates that it is suitable for his height or contains no indication as respects height;
(b) a child restraint which would meet the requirements of the law of another member State corresponding to these Regulations were it to be worn by that child when travelling in that vehicle in that State.
Vehicles to which section 15(1) of the Act does not apply
6. —Two-wheeled motor cycles with or without sidecars are exempt from the prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act.
Exemptions
7.—(1) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to—
(a) a small child aged 3 years or more if a seat belt of a description prescribed by regulation 5 for a small child of his height and weight is not available for him in the front or rear of the vehicle and he is wearing an adult belt;
(b) a child for whom there is a medical certificate;
(c) a child aged under 1 year in a carry cot provided that the carry cot is restrained by straps;
(d) a disabled child who is wearing a disabled person's belt; or
(e) a child riding in a motor car first used before 1st January 1965 if—
(i) the vehicle has no rear seat, and
(ii) apart from the driver's seat, no seat in the vehicle is provided with a seat belt which is appropriate for that child,
and for the purposes of this paragraph, the date on which a vehicle is first used shall be determined in accordance with regulation 3(3) of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(2) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to a child riding in a vehicle which—
(a) is being used to provide a local service within the meaning of the Transport Act 1985[6]; and
(b) is neither a motor car nor a passenger car.
(3) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to a large child if no appropriate seat belt is available for him in the front of the vehicle.
(4) For the purposes of this regulation, a reference to a seat belt being available shall be construed in accordance with Schedule 2.
Signed by authority for the Secretary of State.
Kenneth Carlisle
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Department of Transport
11th January 1993
STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS
1993 No. 31
ROAD TRAFFIC
The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations 1993
Made 11th January 1993
Laid before Parliament 12th January 1993
Coming into force 2nd February 1993
The Secretary of State for Transport, in exercise of the powers conferred by section 15(1), (5), (5A) and (6) of the Road Traffic Act 1988[1], and all other enabling powers, and after consultation with representative organisations in accordance with section 195(2) of that Act, hereby makes the following Regulations:—
Citation, commencement and revocations
1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children in Front Seats) Regulations 1993 and shall come into force on 2nd February 1993.
(2) The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts by Children) Regulations 1982[2] are hereby revoked.
General interpretation
2.—(1) In these Regulations—
"the Act" means the Road Traffic Act 1988;
"Construction and Use Regulations" means the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986[3];
"front seat", in relation to a vehicle, means a seat which is wholly or partially in the front of the vehicle and "rear seat", in relation to a vehicle, means any seat which is not a front seat (see also regulation 4);
"maximum laden weight" has the meaning given by Part IV of Schedule 6 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984[4];
"medical certificate" has the meaning given in Schedule 1 to these Regulations;
"restraint system" means a system combining a seat fixed to the structure of the vehicle by appropriate means and a seat belt for which at least one anchorage point is located on the seat structure;
"seat belt", except in this Regulation, includes a child restraint and references to wearing a seat belt shall be construed accordingly;
"disabled person's belt", "lap belt", "seat", and "three point belt" have the meanings given by regulation 47(8) of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(2) Without prejudice to section 17 of the Interpretation Act 1978[5], a reference to a provision of the Construction and Use Regulations is a reference to that provision as from time to time amended or as from time to time re-enacted with or without modification.
(3) In these regulations—
"child" means a person under the age of 14 years;
"large child" means a child who is not a small child; and
"small child" means a child who is—
(a) aged under 12 years; and
(b) under 150 centimetres in height.
(4) In these Regulations, "adult belt" means a seat belt in respect of which one or more of the following requirements is satisfied, namely that—
(a) it is a three-point belt which has been marked in accordance with regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations;
(b) it is a lap belt which has been so marked;
(c) it is a seat belt that falls within regulation 47(4)(c)(i) or (ii) of those Regulations;
(d) it is a seat belt fitted in a relevant vehicle ("the vehicle in question") and comprised in a restraint system—
(i) of a type which has been approved by an authority of another member State for use by all persons who are either aged 13 years or more or of150 centimetres or more in height, and
(ii) in respect of which, by virtue of such approval, the requirements of the law of another member State corresponding to these Regulations would be met were it to be worn by persons who are either aged 13 years or more or of150 centimetres or more in height when travelling in the vehicle in question in that State.
(5) In these Regulations, "child restraint" means a seat belt or other device in respect of which the following requirements are satisfied, namely that—
(a) it is a seat belt or any other description of restraining device for the use of a child which is—
(i) designed either to be fitted directly to a suitable anchorage or to be used in conjunction with an adult belt and held in place by the restraining action of that belt, and
(ii) marked in accordance with regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations; or
(b) it is a seat belt consisting of or comprised in a restraint system fitted in a relevant vehicle ("the vehicle in question"), being a restraint system—
(i) of a type which has been approved by an authority of another member State for use by a child, and
(ii) in respect of which, by virtue of such approval, the requirements of the law of that State corresponding to these Regulations would be met were it to be worn by a child when travelling in the vehicle in question in that State.
(6) Subject to paragraph (7), for the purposes of these Regulations, a seat shall be regarded as provided with an adult belt if an adult belt is fixed in such a position that it can be worn by an occupier of that seat.
(7) A seat shall not be regarded as provided with an adult belt if the belt—
(a) has an inertia reel mechanism which is locked as a result of the vehicle being, or having been, on a steep incline, or
(b) does not comply with the requirements of regulation 48 of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(8) For the purposes of these Regulations, a seat shall be regarded as provided with a child restraint if a child restraint is—
(a) fixed in such a position that it can be worn by an occupier of that seat, or
(b) elsewhere in or on the vehicle but—
(i) could readily be fixed in such a position without the aid of tools, and
(ii) is not being worn by a child for whom it is appropriate and who is occupying another seat.
(9) For the purposes of these Regulations, a seat belt is appropriate—
(a) in relation to a child aged under 3 years, if it is a child restraint of a description prescribed for a child of his height and weight by regulation 5;
(b) in relation to a child aged 3 years or more, if it is a child restraint of a description prescribed for a child of his height and weight by regulation 5 or is an adult belt; or
(c) in relation to a person aged 14 years or more, if it is an adult belt.
(10) Unless the context otherwise requires, in these Regulations—
(a) any reference to a numbered regulation is a reference to the regulation bearing that number in these Regulations; and
(b) a numbered paragraph is a reference to the paragraph bearing that number in the regulation or Schedule in which the reference appears.
Interpretation of references to relevant vehicles
3.—(1) In these Regulations, "relevant vehicle" means—
(a) a passenger car,
(b) a light goods vehicle, or
(c) a small bus.
(2) For the purposes of this regulation—
"light goods vehicle" means a goods vehicle which—
(a) has four or more wheels,
(b) has a maximum design speed exceeding 25 kilometres per hour,
(c) has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes;
"passenger car" has the same meaning as in section 15 of the Act;
"small bus" means a motor vehicle which—
(a) is constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of passengers and is not a goods vehicle,
(b) has more than 8 seats in addition to the driver's seat,
(c) has four or more wheels,
(d) has a maximum design speed exceeding 25 kilometres per hour,
(e) has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, and
(f) is not constructed or adapted for the carriage of standing passengers.
Interpretation of references to the front of a vehicle
4.—(1) This regulation has effect for the purpose of defining in relation to a vehicle what part of the vehicle is to be regarded as the front of the vehicle for the purposes of section 15(1) of the Act and these Regulations.
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), every part of the vehicle forward of the transverse vertical plane passing through the rearmost part of the driver's seat shall be regarded as the front of the vehicle; and accordingly no part of the vehicle to the rear of that plane shall be regarded as being in the front of the vehicle.
(3) Where a vehicle has a deck which is above the level of the driver's head when he is in the normal driving position, no part of the vehicle above that level shall be regarded as being in the front of the vehicle.
Description of seat belts to be worn by children
5.—(1) For a child of any particular height and weight travelling in a particular vehicle, the description of seat belt prescribed for the purposes of section 15(1) of the Act to be worn by him is—
(a) if he is a small child and the vehicle is a relevant vehicle, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) of paragraph (2);
(b) if he is a small child and the vehicle is not a relevant vehicle, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) of paragraph (2);
(c) if he is a large child, a child restraint of a description specified in sub-paragraph (a) of paragraph (2) or an adult belt.
(2) The descriptions of seat belt referred to in paragraph (1) are—
(a) a child restraint with the marking required under regulation 47(7) of the Construction and Use Regulations if the marking indicates that it is suitable for his weight and either indicates that it is suitable for his height or contains no indication as respects height;
(b) a child restraint which would meet the requirements of the law of another member State corresponding to these Regulations were it to be worn by that child when travelling in that vehicle in that State.
Vehicles to which section 15(1) of the Act does not apply
6. —Two-wheeled motor cycles with or without sidecars are exempt from the prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act.
Exemptions
7.—(1) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to—
(a) a small child aged 3 years or more if a seat belt of a description prescribed by regulation 5 for a small child of his height and weight is not available for him in the front or rear of the vehicle and he is wearing an adult belt;
(b) a child for whom there is a medical certificate;
(c) a child aged under 1 year in a carry cot provided that the carry cot is restrained by straps;
(d) a disabled child who is wearing a disabled person's belt; or
(e) a child riding in a motor car first used before 1st January 1965 if—
(i) the vehicle has no rear seat, and
(ii) apart from the driver's seat, no seat in the vehicle is provided with a seat belt which is appropriate for that child,
and for the purposes of this paragraph, the date on which a vehicle is first used shall be determined in accordance with regulation 3(3) of the Construction and Use Regulations.
(2) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to a child riding in a vehicle which—
(a) is being used to provide a local service within the meaning of the Transport Act 1985[6]; and
(b) is neither a motor car nor a passenger car.
(3) The prohibition in section 15(1) of the Act shall not apply in relation to a large child if no appropriate seat belt is available for him in the front of the vehicle.
(4) For the purposes of this regulation, a reference to a seat belt being available shall be construed in accordance with Schedule 2.
Signed by authority for the Secretary of State.
Kenneth Carlisle
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Department of Transport
11th January 1993
Edited by lowdrag on Saturday 18th April 11:36
[quote=lowdrag]Here is the 1993 law for you - if it helps! You'll not the specific exemption for pre 1965 cars and no mention (it seems) as to the type of belt for children should they be later fitted, with the exception that if a proper child belt cannot be fitted then an alternative will comply.
Thanks for that. I always assumed the date after which belts needed to be fitted was Jan '65 (from experience with the MGB and the E-Type), but things get vague when retro fitting belts and regarding children. It would appear from that particular extract that I could quite legally remove the seatblets altogether (on both cars) and let my 20 month old son ride in the passenger seat totally unrestrained?
I can only assume that the Quick Fit websites' definition of 'Europe' does not include the UK? Having researched a little further it now seems that the chrome buckle on the lap belts are not compatible with the child seat, since the buckle would be in contact with the plastic seat chassis. In a shock loading this could crack the seat chassis with unthinkable consequences. Maybe it was just a silly idea in the first place. Shame because my son likes cars in general, and in addition the E-Type certainly has a lot of interesting sounds and smells, plus there's always the possibility of a nice walk home.
Thanks for the comments,
Thanks for that. I always assumed the date after which belts needed to be fitted was Jan '65 (from experience with the MGB and the E-Type), but things get vague when retro fitting belts and regarding children. It would appear from that particular extract that I could quite legally remove the seatblets altogether (on both cars) and let my 20 month old son ride in the passenger seat totally unrestrained?
I can only assume that the Quick Fit websites' definition of 'Europe' does not include the UK? Having researched a little further it now seems that the chrome buckle on the lap belts are not compatible with the child seat, since the buckle would be in contact with the plastic seat chassis. In a shock loading this could crack the seat chassis with unthinkable consequences. Maybe it was just a silly idea in the first place. Shame because my son likes cars in general, and in addition the E-Type certainly has a lot of interesting sounds and smells, plus there's always the possibility of a nice walk home.
Thanks for the comments,
On a similar, but slightly off-topic, vein, I am a big fan of old Range Rovers, which only come with a lap-belt for the centre rear seat. I can't find any way of converting this to a three-point seat belt, and several people have told me that I'm worrying unnecessarily. What do you all think? I know that a lap belt can't be as safe as a three-pointer, but is it less safe by a huge margin?
I've just bought a Discovery 2 because it has three three-point seat belts in the back but miss my old Rangie ...
I've just bought a Discovery 2 because it has three three-point seat belts in the back but miss my old Rangie ...
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