Brake upgrades
Discussion
One of my toys is a 1960 Wolseley 1500. It’s pretty stock at the moment though I am plotting an engine upgrade when funds allow at some point in the future. But before I make it go a bit faster I’d like to make it stop a bit better first.
So, as the Wolseley is often described as a Minor in a posh suit, I figure I have three possible upgrades.
First – use a Minor disc brake upgrade kit, assuming of course that the stub axles on the Wolseley are the same as a Minor. As nicking the big drums off of these back in the day was a common brake upgrade for the Minor, I’m guessing they are. Obviously this will be the most expensive route.
Second – keep the original drums but add a remote servo.
Third – upgrade to the Riley 1.5 front drums (which I understand are the same diameter but a wider drum) with added remote servo.
Anyone been there and done it and can offer an opinion on which they’d go for?
So, as the Wolseley is often described as a Minor in a posh suit, I figure I have three possible upgrades.
First – use a Minor disc brake upgrade kit, assuming of course that the stub axles on the Wolseley are the same as a Minor. As nicking the big drums off of these back in the day was a common brake upgrade for the Minor, I’m guessing they are. Obviously this will be the most expensive route.
Second – keep the original drums but add a remote servo.
Third – upgrade to the Riley 1.5 front drums (which I understand are the same diameter but a wider drum) with added remote servo.
Anyone been there and done it and can offer an opinion on which they’d go for?
A servo doesn't increase breaking, it just reduces the pedal pressure required to achieve a given pedal force. That said drum brakes are never going to be very good and being able to push a little harder, while helping a little is unlikely to make a big difference.
So I'd say go for the disks - possibly with a servo (have one on my disked Spitfire and feels a lot safer knowing you can press the pedal to get all the braking to need - not have to have huge left leg mussles to react to the modern car cutting in front and breaking).
So I'd say go for the disks - possibly with a servo (have one on my disked Spitfire and feels a lot safer knowing you can press the pedal to get all the braking to need - not have to have huge left leg mussles to react to the modern car cutting in front and breaking).
Well there you go. The great and the good just love a disc brake .
The Riley has a single line system that relies on ONE seal within the master cylinder.When that fails( and they do) you will have NO brakes at all
Dual line the system first before you even think about anything else. Work out the correct brake bias and fit a master cylinder that will operate front and rear independantly,so if you loose one system you still have the other that will work. I would keep the drums,fit soft linings set them up properly .Otherwise do your homework first on the disc and servo/ master compatability.
The Riley has a single line system that relies on ONE seal within the master cylinder.When that fails( and they do) you will have NO brakes at all
Dual line the system first before you even think about anything else. Work out the correct brake bias and fit a master cylinder that will operate front and rear independantly,so if you loose one system you still have the other that will work. I would keep the drums,fit soft linings set them up properly .Otherwise do your homework first on the disc and servo/ master compatability.
I have a 1963 wolseley 1500 which I use as much as I can in the summer months.
It has Marina front brakes via a morris 100 conversion kit, MGB master cylinder, Front anti roll bar , poly bushes on the torsion bar mounts and tie bars, servo, 5 inch wide wheels with 165 tyres, Mini (proper mini) front shocks at the rear to replace the god awfull lever arms ,again a morris 1000 conversion kit which includes mounts and an upper mounting beam which you fit the opersite way round than to the morris, and 72 bhp (std 50) with the help of an MGA head carbs, cam amd modified distributor.
The car drives much better than standard, you still get body roll but it is controlled and predictable, the rear shock mods made a big differance as it also holds the axle down. Go ahead and do the mods it is well worth it and you will enjoy driving the old thing, when you can keep pace with modern traffic it causes quite a stir! Plank.
It has Marina front brakes via a morris 100 conversion kit, MGB master cylinder, Front anti roll bar , poly bushes on the torsion bar mounts and tie bars, servo, 5 inch wide wheels with 165 tyres, Mini (proper mini) front shocks at the rear to replace the god awfull lever arms ,again a morris 1000 conversion kit which includes mounts and an upper mounting beam which you fit the opersite way round than to the morris, and 72 bhp (std 50) with the help of an MGA head carbs, cam amd modified distributor.
The car drives much better than standard, you still get body roll but it is controlled and predictable, the rear shock mods made a big differance as it also holds the axle down. Go ahead and do the mods it is well worth it and you will enjoy driving the old thing, when you can keep pace with modern traffic it causes quite a stir! Plank.
Aaah Wolseley 1500 
...first car I bought (1972). Cost 40 quid and was a 1960 in grey and sort of grey fillered sections. 
Hellish wheelspin available due to all that power
and low axle ratio.
Eventually my undoing when I snapped a halfshaft, and had to shell out 5 quid for a replacement scrap axle.
It then got me over the new M62 to a job interview in Manchester, which landed me the job and a brand new flashy Hillman Hunter.
I'm all in favour of upgrading classics to safer modern standards, and of course it was nothing unusual to have them modded back in their day. BUT low profiles and 19" fox alloys would be going too far.
...first car I bought (1972). Cost 40 quid and was a 1960 in grey and sort of grey fillered sections. Hellish wheelspin available due to all that power
and low axle ratio.Eventually my undoing when I snapped a halfshaft, and had to shell out 5 quid for a replacement scrap axle.
It then got me over the new M62 to a job interview in Manchester, which landed me the job and a brand new flashy Hillman Hunter.
I'm all in favour of upgrading classics to safer modern standards, and of course it was nothing unusual to have them modded back in their day. BUT low profiles and 19" fox alloys would be going too far.
Plank said:
I have a 1963 wolseley 1500 which I use as much as I can in the summer months.
It has Marina front brakes via a morris 100 conversion kit, MGB master cylinder, Front anti roll bar , poly bushes on the torsion bar mounts and tie bars, servo, 5 inch wide wheels with 165 tyres, Mini (proper mini) front shocks at the rear to replace the god awfull lever arms ,again a morris 1000 conversion kit which includes mounts and an upper mounting beam which you fit the opersite way round than to the morris, and 72 bhp (std 50) with the help of an MGA head carbs, cam amd modified distributor.
The car drives much better than standard, you still get body roll but it is controlled and predictable, the rear shock mods made a big differance as it also holds the axle down. Go ahead and do the mods it is well worth it and you will enjoy driving the old thing, when you can keep pace with modern traffic it causes quite a stir! Plank.
That sounds very much like what I would like to do to my Wolseley. Does the Marina brake conversion allow the use of the 4x4-inch PCD wheels or are you stuck with the Marina bolt pattern (Triumph 4x3.75-inch if I remember correctly)? Want to keep 14-inch steels all round, have a pair of Minor Van wheels (4.5-inch wide) for the back. What's the anti-roll bar from? It has Marina front brakes via a morris 100 conversion kit, MGB master cylinder, Front anti roll bar , poly bushes on the torsion bar mounts and tie bars, servo, 5 inch wide wheels with 165 tyres, Mini (proper mini) front shocks at the rear to replace the god awfull lever arms ,again a morris 1000 conversion kit which includes mounts and an upper mounting beam which you fit the opersite way round than to the morris, and 72 bhp (std 50) with the help of an MGA head carbs, cam amd modified distributor.
The car drives much better than standard, you still get body roll but it is controlled and predictable, the rear shock mods made a big differance as it also holds the axle down. Go ahead and do the mods it is well worth it and you will enjoy driving the old thing, when you can keep pace with modern traffic it causes quite a stir! Plank.
RW774 said:
Well there you go. The great and the good just love a disc brake .
The Riley has a single line system that relies on ONE seal within the master cylinder.When that fails( and they do) you will have NO brakes at all
Dual line the system first before you even think about anything else. Work out the correct brake bias and fit a master cylinder that will operate front and rear independantly,so if you loose one system you still have the other that will work. I would keep the drums,fit soft linings set them up properly .Otherwise do your homework first on the disc and servo/ master compatability.
This seems like a good move if you want to improve the effectiveness of the braking system without sacrificing the period feel of the car. Not a criticism of anyone who does want to make wholesale changes by the way, its just that in my opinion, it's nice to enjoy any car as it was designed to be and alter my driving style to suit. Good luck either way The Riley has a single line system that relies on ONE seal within the master cylinder.When that fails( and they do) you will have NO brakes at all
Dual line the system first before you even think about anything else. Work out the correct brake bias and fit a master cylinder that will operate front and rear independantly,so if you loose one system you still have the other that will work. I would keep the drums,fit soft linings set them up properly .Otherwise do your homework first on the disc and servo/ master compatability.
Edited by Ocarru on Monday 6th April 09:52
Ocarru said:
...it's nice to enjoy any car as it was designed to be and alter my driving style to suit.
That's all well and good but unfortunetly I've yet to find a way of altering everyone else's driving style to suit. Classic brakes are all well and good until some t
t in new (probably company) car joins the motorway, cuts in to the reasonable, safe space you've left and then jams his ABS brakes on because he's in his desperate quest for the quickest route to the outside lane 
Not that this happens to me every day on the M25 or anything...
Edited by //j17 on Monday 6th April 11:20
-"That sounds very much like what I would like to do to my Wolseley. Does the Marina brake conversion allow the use of the 4x4-inch PCD wheels or are you stuck with the Marina bolt pattern (Triumph 4x3.75-inch if I remember correctly)? Want to keep 14-inch steels all round, have a pair of Minor Van wheels (4.5-inch wide) for the back. What's the anti-roll bar from? "-
Fat Richie. The conversion is for the morris 1000 and comes with 4 inch pcd. I run on widened 14 inch steels from scarborough racing developments. Unfortunately they no longer widen wheels (I suspect its now illegal) but mine have been on the car 26 years without any problems. Again the front anti roll bar is a morris 1000 conversion and makes a very big differance to handling. I recently reccomended this mod to anouther 1500 owner who was very pleased with the result. most mods are Owen Burton conversions from the Morris Minor centre. Plank
Fat Richie. The conversion is for the morris 1000 and comes with 4 inch pcd. I run on widened 14 inch steels from scarborough racing developments. Unfortunately they no longer widen wheels (I suspect its now illegal) but mine have been on the car 26 years without any problems. Again the front anti roll bar is a morris 1000 conversion and makes a very big differance to handling. I recently reccomended this mod to anouther 1500 owner who was very pleased with the result. most mods are Owen Burton conversions from the Morris Minor centre. Plank
Plank said:
The conversion is for the morris 1000 and comes with 4 inch pcd. I run on widened 14 inch steels from scarborough racing developments. Unfortunately they no longer widen wheels (I suspect its now illegal) but mine have been on the car 26 years without any problems. Again the front anti roll bar is a morris 1000 conversion and makes a very big differance to handling. I recently reccomended this mod to anouther 1500 owner who was very pleased with the result. most mods are Owen Burton conversions from the Morris Minor centre.
Thanks for that Steve, looks like I need to get the Owen Burton Catalogue and do some reading! Some photos of yours would be nice. Mine below (running on the alloys that came with it, now replaced with steels)... 
Edited by Fat Richie on Friday 10th April 00:04
Fat Richie
The same colour as mine! By eck it looks good without the bumpers, ive not had the courage to take mine off. I am glad that there is anouther Wersley 1500 fan out there I though it was just me! I have had mine 27 years and am the second owner. I bought it for £75 quid from a local scrap yard when I were a lad. I have come into some serious critisism from the classic boys for the mods done to it, I think they would freak if I took the bumpers off.
The other mod I have done is change the front seats to Rover 200 VP as they are much better for my back!.
The same colour as mine! By eck it looks good without the bumpers, ive not had the courage to take mine off. I am glad that there is anouther Wersley 1500 fan out there I though it was just me! I have had mine 27 years and am the second owner. I bought it for £75 quid from a local scrap yard when I were a lad. I have come into some serious critisism from the classic boys for the mods done to it, I think they would freak if I took the bumpers off.
The other mod I have done is change the front seats to Rover 200 VP as they are much better for my back!.
And here is mine:-
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
Well that didn't work ! I shall try again.
3rd time lucky?
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss37/Plank_phot...
Well that didn't work ! I shall try again.
3rd time lucky?
Edited by Plank on Friday 10th April 19:30
Edited by Plank on Friday 10th April 19:39
Edited by Plank on Friday 10th April 19:44
Fat Richie said:
Plank said:
The conversion is for the morris 1000 and comes with 4 inch pcd. I run on widened 14 inch steels from scarborough racing developments. Unfortunately they no longer widen wheels (I suspect its now illegal) but mine have been on the car 26 years without any problems. Again the front anti roll bar is a morris 1000 conversion and makes a very big differance to handling. I recently reccomended this mod to anouther 1500 owner who was very pleased with the result. most mods are Owen Burton conversions from the Morris Minor centre.
Thanks for that Steve, looks like I need to get the Owen Burton Catalogue and do some reading! Some photos of yours would be nice. Mine below (running on the alloys that came with it, now replaced with steels)... Edited by Fat Richie on Friday 10th April 00:04
Having had more classics then moderns, I think a good brake system is the key to enjoying a classic in todays traffic. Some classics hgave truly shocking braking systems, which were barley adequte when new!
Graham and William, thanks for your kind comments. 
Steve, they could almost be twins! Those wide steels (which are legal I believe) really look the part too.
Like the colour of your interior, was it the original colour or did you retrim to match the Rover seats? Mine still has the stock red leather interior, apart from some rather boy-racer-ish alloy pedals (the accelerator needs cutting down due to my size 10 feet!) and a Mountney wood-rim steering wheel which used to live in my 1967 Mini (car now sold). The wife prefers the seats in the Wolseley to the 90s Cooper seats we had in the Mini, better on her back she says.
What is the paint colour called? It’s very similar to the Damask Red that our old Mini is but a nicer shade.
The bumpers were off the car when I bought it (that photo was taken about eight weeks after buying it) and I’ve never gotten round to putting them on. I kind of like the race-track refugee look.
When we bought the car I had to go back the following week with a Transit to collect all the spares; wings, doors, windscreens, boxes of stuff et al. I’ve spent today in the garage (aka the “Shed of Dread”) trying to sort it out. Found I have two front bumpers and one rear one (that looks like it had a towbar fitted at some stage) but the rear one has no brackets. If I can find some brackets then I may fit the bumpers, not sure about it though, still would be nice to have the option.
Steve, they could almost be twins! Those wide steels (which are legal I believe) really look the part too.
Like the colour of your interior, was it the original colour or did you retrim to match the Rover seats? Mine still has the stock red leather interior, apart from some rather boy-racer-ish alloy pedals (the accelerator needs cutting down due to my size 10 feet!) and a Mountney wood-rim steering wheel which used to live in my 1967 Mini (car now sold). The wife prefers the seats in the Wolseley to the 90s Cooper seats we had in the Mini, better on her back she says.
What is the paint colour called? It’s very similar to the Damask Red that our old Mini is but a nicer shade.
The bumpers were off the car when I bought it (that photo was taken about eight weeks after buying it) and I’ve never gotten round to putting them on. I kind of like the race-track refugee look.
When we bought the car I had to go back the following week with a Transit to collect all the spares; wings, doors, windscreens, boxes of stuff et al. I’ve spent today in the garage (aka the “Shed of Dread”) trying to sort it out. Found I have two front bumpers and one rear one (that looks like it had a towbar fitted at some stage) but the rear one has no brackets. If I can find some brackets then I may fit the bumpers, not sure about it though, still would be nice to have the option.
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