944 Lux or 2.7 vs Excel SE ? Can't make up my mind!
Discussion
Hi everyone, visited here a good few times but just decided to register and possibly contribute.
I am very seriously think about purchasing either a Porsche 944 (Lux or 2.7) or a Lotus Excel SE (later model with improved interior and boot access.)
The problem is that I have always wanted a Lotus, or a garage full of them rather, and will soon be able to get one. I can spend for the initial outlay, getting a better mechanically sound example (don't are too much about asthetics as that can be sorted as an when) to reduce later running costs.
But I have always loved the Porsche 944 and with this being my first classic sports car purchase, I wanted something practical, fairly reliable, cheap(ish) to run and loads of fun (big grin drive) with a better than average car performance with excellent road handling.
Pro`s and con's I have gathered trawling through websites:
PRO`S:
LOTUS: Prefered looks, exclusivity, reliability (for a lotus), bullet proof toyota running gear, no rust issues, could always fit a rover V8 should the Lotus block die (or I want knuckle white upgrade), more room n the back than the 944, better resale value.
PORSCHE: Reliability, better economy, german dependability, more porsche parts so slightly cheaper.
CONS:
LOTUS: L.O.T.U.S, interior trim quality, parts quality, build quality in general, useless extra weight they call an A/C unit - it never works, well for a year at a time)
PORSCHE:
Rot, electrics (bad earths), not as much room in the back, not as road stable, over priced servicing, will still be hankering after a Lotus!
I could really do with some good advice from people, preferably if anyone has owned or known owners that have had both, or dealt with them.
I know that either would cost more than my current 2.6 V6 Omega in parts, defo labour and petrol. If was going to fix up the Omega, I would have to spend £1K+ as there where a few things going when I got it and they are at the point of breaking other things if I don't fix. The car is going back to the finance company soon though as they have completely screwed me over with payments, change of policy and selling me an overpriced knackerd car in the first place (they know a lot of tricks to hide probs) so I am not someone whom buys nice cars and trashes them, if they are nice I will keep nice, or sell on if I would end up killing the car (or making it worse)! That Omega is on a par with the Mazda 323 F GTi 1.8 16v I had for my favourite owns, running slightly ahead of the 320i.
How much better will either the lotus or 944 be in comparison with the mazda or omega?
I am very seriously think about purchasing either a Porsche 944 (Lux or 2.7) or a Lotus Excel SE (later model with improved interior and boot access.)
The problem is that I have always wanted a Lotus, or a garage full of them rather, and will soon be able to get one. I can spend for the initial outlay, getting a better mechanically sound example (don't are too much about asthetics as that can be sorted as an when) to reduce later running costs.
But I have always loved the Porsche 944 and with this being my first classic sports car purchase, I wanted something practical, fairly reliable, cheap(ish) to run and loads of fun (big grin drive) with a better than average car performance with excellent road handling.
Pro`s and con's I have gathered trawling through websites:
PRO`S:
LOTUS: Prefered looks, exclusivity, reliability (for a lotus), bullet proof toyota running gear, no rust issues, could always fit a rover V8 should the Lotus block die (or I want knuckle white upgrade), more room n the back than the 944, better resale value.
PORSCHE: Reliability, better economy, german dependability, more porsche parts so slightly cheaper.
CONS:
LOTUS: L.O.T.U.S, interior trim quality, parts quality, build quality in general, useless extra weight they call an A/C unit - it never works, well for a year at a time)
PORSCHE:
Rot, electrics (bad earths), not as much room in the back, not as road stable, over priced servicing, will still be hankering after a Lotus!
I could really do with some good advice from people, preferably if anyone has owned or known owners that have had both, or dealt with them.
I know that either would cost more than my current 2.6 V6 Omega in parts, defo labour and petrol. If was going to fix up the Omega, I would have to spend £1K+ as there where a few things going when I got it and they are at the point of breaking other things if I don't fix. The car is going back to the finance company soon though as they have completely screwed me over with payments, change of policy and selling me an overpriced knackerd car in the first place (they know a lot of tricks to hide probs) so I am not someone whom buys nice cars and trashes them, if they are nice I will keep nice, or sell on if I would end up killing the car (or making it worse)! That Omega is on a par with the Mazda 323 F GTi 1.8 16v I had for my favourite owns, running slightly ahead of the 320i.
How much better will either the lotus or 944 be in comparison with the mazda or omega?
Better at what?
The omega and mazda will be more reliable, carry more, quieter etc etc.
But both Lotus and 944 will be thrilling road cars. Road tests at the time compared them both (and, for a really left-field suggestion, the Renault Alpine GTA or A610 too) and a lot will depend on your driving style and personal preference. I'm not a "finesse" driver, so a 944 suited me more then the Lotus would, but both are now old cars, so running costs will likely be simmiler.
Try them both, then decide.
The omega and mazda will be more reliable, carry more, quieter etc etc.
But both Lotus and 944 will be thrilling road cars. Road tests at the time compared them both (and, for a really left-field suggestion, the Renault Alpine GTA or A610 too) and a lot will depend on your driving style and personal preference. I'm not a "finesse" driver, so a 944 suited me more then the Lotus would, but both are now old cars, so running costs will likely be simmiler.
Try them both, then decide.
Thanks for the reply.
I am after the moon really! I want a thrilling drive, but practicality and reasonable running cost. It will be my everyday drive (I know, more expensive) and will have to be reliable enough that it won't spend too much time off the road. I will be getting the wife a car, once she passes her test,and that will be the "sensible" family car. I will use that when mine is off the road, but obviously it can't be too often!
I have been advised a few times to get the porker over the lotus, costs, reliability etc, but upon reading through the respective owners club forums, they seem to be on a par on that front, maybe the 944 needs a bit more servicing than the excel.
The mazda was and the omega is our only car at the time so for space, reliability and passenger comfort they did the job. They are/where both brilliant drives, but for the money I am and would be spending on the omega, aswell as getting a second "sensible" car, I figured I would start my long term goal of classic sports car ownership, considering the overall costs don't seem to be dissimilar.
My mind was made up over getting the lotus, and the excel is the best match for my current needs, finance, etc.,. But I always wanted a 944 too, and I thought maybe that would be more sensible?
Now if driving pleasure wise the 944 or lotus aren`t going to be much better than the mazda or omega, then I may spare the expense and wait until I can afford an Esprit. But, if how the owners seem to imply, they are a much more pleasant drive than the better "normal" road cars, I will get one.
Also I can't seem to find anyone whom advises for me to get the lotus over the 944 (except ofcourse excel owners !).
So really if there is any here that has had both?
Trying both does seem like a viable option to help decide, I don't know why I didn't think of that (honestly, I didn't, I get a bit "blond" at times - catch it of the wife!). But it is the longer term issues I need to know whether they balance out.
I am after the moon really! I want a thrilling drive, but practicality and reasonable running cost. It will be my everyday drive (I know, more expensive) and will have to be reliable enough that it won't spend too much time off the road. I will be getting the wife a car, once she passes her test,and that will be the "sensible" family car. I will use that when mine is off the road, but obviously it can't be too often!
I have been advised a few times to get the porker over the lotus, costs, reliability etc, but upon reading through the respective owners club forums, they seem to be on a par on that front, maybe the 944 needs a bit more servicing than the excel.
The mazda was and the omega is our only car at the time so for space, reliability and passenger comfort they did the job. They are/where both brilliant drives, but for the money I am and would be spending on the omega, aswell as getting a second "sensible" car, I figured I would start my long term goal of classic sports car ownership, considering the overall costs don't seem to be dissimilar.
My mind was made up over getting the lotus, and the excel is the best match for my current needs, finance, etc.,. But I always wanted a 944 too, and I thought maybe that would be more sensible?
Now if driving pleasure wise the 944 or lotus aren`t going to be much better than the mazda or omega, then I may spare the expense and wait until I can afford an Esprit. But, if how the owners seem to imply, they are a much more pleasant drive than the better "normal" road cars, I will get one.
Also I can't seem to find anyone whom advises for me to get the lotus over the 944 (except ofcourse excel owners !).
So really if there is any here that has had both?
Trying both does seem like a viable option to help decide, I don't know why I didn't think of that (honestly, I didn't, I get a bit "blond" at times - catch it of the wife!). But it is the longer term issues I need to know whether they balance out.
If you like the Wedgie looks, then may I suggest a TVR 280i Wedge ?
Reliable and gutsy V6 ford motor, and everything else quality and well put together. Handles great too. Fantastic value for money at present.
Here's a nice one:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/829280.htm
Fixed heads available too.
Pic of my old one is somewhere on my profile.
Reliable and gutsy V6 ford motor, and everything else quality and well put together. Handles great too. Fantastic value for money at present.
Here's a nice one:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/829280.htm
Fixed heads available too.
Pic of my old one is somewhere on my profile.
Not sure what you mean about later Excel having better boot access - did you mean Eclat v Excel?
Anyway, I've not driven a 944 but I used to own an Excel.
The Lotus interior is not as you describe, the mechanicals are fairly bullet proof but the as with any non metal bodied car the electrics are the biggest problem.
The engine is a real gem, but it must be looked after. But no more so than any engine of the era and the carbs are easy to set up/tune.
944 v Excel road test
Also check out the forum mentioned on the above link.
Whatever you get enjoy!
Anyway, I've not driven a 944 but I used to own an Excel.
The Lotus interior is not as you describe, the mechanicals are fairly bullet proof but the as with any non metal bodied car the electrics are the biggest problem.
The engine is a real gem, but it must be looked after. But no more so than any engine of the era and the carbs are easy to set up/tune.
944 v Excel road test
Also check out the forum mentioned on the above link.
Whatever you get enjoy!
Never had a Lotus but have had 2 944s first one a 2.5 lux not bad,the second one a 944S2 3.0 liter,this was a car that I loved.A great daily driver,large boot good enough for a weekend away,great build quality with galvanised body no rot worry about,a/c that works,with 240bhp it go's,stops and eats bends.You can get service parts and servicing cheap though 944 specialists.I only sold mine for a 911.So go and buy a Lotus its british and got a heart you wll love it,that why I've got 79 Taimar now!
Thankyou everyone for the replies.
I have always coveted those too, but the usually the 350i over the 280i (the wedgies of course). The reason why one of those didn't come into the equation was that I had been told they absolutely drink petrol! Although beautiful, the 280i is slower than my omega and so the 350i would have to be had. I could either pay for low mpg or servicing/parts, the lowest mpg I could get away with is 24 combined. Unfortunately the TVR will have to wait until I get a pay rise/new job!
I remember reading that during the excels life lotus increased the rear screen and lowered the boot lid line at the back thus improving boot accessability. I can't find the references right now and my lotus/car books are still in one of the boxes from the move.
The state of the interior is what I have gleaned from owners forums, that lotus tend to have a mish mash of quality in the materials of the interior and even the good quality stuff suffers from poor interior planning i.e. the bits fall off, head lining sags etc. although the usual of dodgy switches doesn't seem to apply to the excel, so I remember.
I was very nearly bought one about 7 years ago and did a lot of research into the excel, but I fear some of the information has misted up slightly over the years! I seem to remember someone doing a rover V8 conversion using the wiring loom from a ford? This he said made it the quickest and most reliable lotus in the world! I wanted to get an Esprit at first, but I soon relised I wouldn't have been able to afford to keep one on the road in a respectable condition, so decided for the Excel instead. I could also be confusing some info between the two.
I want the car because I want a classic sports car that I can afford to run (bearing in mind I will be using this car almost everyday), keep on the road, be able to climb the classic car ownership ladder, using the current car as part finance for the next and have some damn good fun in the mean time.
I think I may have decided to go for the Lotus although my mind will be made up once I have test driven a few 944`s and Excels.
Anyone in Lancs or Merseyside willing to help out in the test drive department please feel free to let me know!
I have always coveted those too, but the usually the 350i over the 280i (the wedgies of course). The reason why one of those didn't come into the equation was that I had been told they absolutely drink petrol! Although beautiful, the 280i is slower than my omega and so the 350i would have to be had. I could either pay for low mpg or servicing/parts, the lowest mpg I could get away with is 24 combined. Unfortunately the TVR will have to wait until I get a pay rise/new job!
I remember reading that during the excels life lotus increased the rear screen and lowered the boot lid line at the back thus improving boot accessability. I can't find the references right now and my lotus/car books are still in one of the boxes from the move.
The state of the interior is what I have gleaned from owners forums, that lotus tend to have a mish mash of quality in the materials of the interior and even the good quality stuff suffers from poor interior planning i.e. the bits fall off, head lining sags etc. although the usual of dodgy switches doesn't seem to apply to the excel, so I remember.
I was very nearly bought one about 7 years ago and did a lot of research into the excel, but I fear some of the information has misted up slightly over the years! I seem to remember someone doing a rover V8 conversion using the wiring loom from a ford? This he said made it the quickest and most reliable lotus in the world! I wanted to get an Esprit at first, but I soon relised I wouldn't have been able to afford to keep one on the road in a respectable condition, so decided for the Excel instead. I could also be confusing some info between the two.
I want the car because I want a classic sports car that I can afford to run (bearing in mind I will be using this car almost everyday), keep on the road, be able to climb the classic car ownership ladder, using the current car as part finance for the next and have some damn good fun in the mean time.
I think I may have decided to go for the Lotus although my mind will be made up once I have test driven a few 944`s and Excels.
Anyone in Lancs or Merseyside willing to help out in the test drive department please feel free to let me know!
I don't know about the 280i being slower than your Omega. 
Parkers give Omega 2.6 Auto 9.2 to 60, but it does weigh 1600+ kilos
280i is only around 1050 kilos, and should get to 60 in around 8 secs, so not too shabby.
Fuel ?
My 280 did around 25mpg average, 390 did around 18mpg, and present 400SE around 20mpg, but you're talking a different performance league there.
I believe it is pretty normal to do 25-28mpg in a 350i, so don't rule them out, and 0-60 in 6.5 is not hanging around, even these days.
Of course the soundtrack is something else...
Parkers give Omega 2.6 Auto 9.2 to 60, but it does weigh 1600+ kilos
280i is only around 1050 kilos, and should get to 60 in around 8 secs, so not too shabby.
Fuel ?
My 280 did around 25mpg average, 390 did around 18mpg, and present 400SE around 20mpg, but you're talking a different performance league there.
I believe it is pretty normal to do 25-28mpg in a 350i, so don't rule them out, and 0-60 in 6.5 is not hanging around, even these days.
Of course the soundtrack is something else...
The best I could ever get from my 350 FHC was 17/18 MPG, no matter how gently I drove. The build quality was pretty amateurish too.
I also own an Excel SE, and I can safely say that the build quality is streets ahead of the TVR. Yes, the roof lining does sag after 20 years or so, but it's easily fxed (I'm told). Also, be prepared to rev the motor hard to get any performance from it if it's an SE.
Paul.
I also own an Excel SE, and I can safely say that the build quality is streets ahead of the TVR. Yes, the roof lining does sag after 20 years or so, but it's easily fxed (I'm told). Also, be prepared to rev the motor hard to get any performance from it if it's an SE.
Paul.
Edited by B16 RFF on Sunday 15th February 21:49
grahamw48 said:
I don't know about the 280i being slower than your Omega.
Parkers give Omega 2.6 Auto 9.2 to 60, but it does weigh 1600+ kilos
280i is only around 1050 kilos, and should get to 60 in around 8 secs, so not too shabby.
Fuel ?
My 280 did around 25mpg average, 390 did around 18mpg, and present 400SE around 20mpg, but you're talking a different performance league there.
I believe it is pretty normal to do 25-28mpg in a 350i, so don't rule them out, and 0-60 in 6.5 is not hanging around, even these days.
Of course the soundtrack is something else...
My S2 probably does 25-30mpg I guess and I think 0-60 is around 7 seconds - a TVR is not just about acceleration - its the noise, the handling and the sense of occasion.....Parkers give Omega 2.6 Auto 9.2 to 60, but it does weigh 1600+ kilos
280i is only around 1050 kilos, and should get to 60 in around 8 secs, so not too shabby.
Fuel ?
My 280 did around 25mpg average, 390 did around 18mpg, and present 400SE around 20mpg, but you're talking a different performance league there.
I believe it is pretty normal to do 25-28mpg in a 350i, so don't rule them out, and 0-60 in 6.5 is not hanging around, even these days.
Of course the soundtrack is something else...
Given the OPs original dilemma, my heart would say Excel but my head would say 944.
I like the idea of the Alpine GTA and if looking for a closed 2+2 of this vintage, that would probably be my choice.
As a left field alternative, what about the Italian market, E30 M3 derived chassis/engine 320is. A real wolf in sheeps clothing...
The only problem with the alpine, is that its french and I have an aversion to french cars! That aside I did actually conider getting one that was selling around ours, but it looked a real shed up close, so I didn`t even ask a price.
I owned a 320i and wondered what all the fuss was about, but I can see that this 320is is nice, but if I got another BMW, then it would have to be the E36 330i, 325i or an M3. Or the 840i if I was wealthier. The 320i was still a great car and it saved my life when I lost the back end in the wet from hitting the throttle a little too early coming off a round a bout, side ways right into a lamppost. It was my first RWD car, only having ever driven RWD vans before.
I must have misread the stats for the 280i, it is faster than my omega, sorry.
I agree with johnnylayze "Given the OPs original dilemma, my heart would say Excel but my head would say 944.
"
So really I am after some one telling me I could make my head say Lotus too!
Thanks for giving me alternatives, they have reminded me of others cars I have coveted in the past. Only problem, its nearly adding more cars I have to choose between!
But its still currently the Excel, but may still be swayed by the 944 at test time, although more comments would still be really appreciated.
I owned a 320i and wondered what all the fuss was about, but I can see that this 320is is nice, but if I got another BMW, then it would have to be the E36 330i, 325i or an M3. Or the 840i if I was wealthier. The 320i was still a great car and it saved my life when I lost the back end in the wet from hitting the throttle a little too early coming off a round a bout, side ways right into a lamppost. It was my first RWD car, only having ever driven RWD vans before.
I must have misread the stats for the 280i, it is faster than my omega, sorry.
I agree with johnnylayze "Given the OPs original dilemma, my heart would say Excel but my head would say 944.
"
So really I am after some one telling me I could make my head say Lotus too!
Thanks for giving me alternatives, they have reminded me of others cars I have coveted in the past. Only problem, its nearly adding more cars I have to choose between!
But its still currently the Excel, but may still be swayed by the 944 at test time, although more comments would still be really appreciated.
Hmm....if I had a few grand to spare.
Rare one this, and I don't think it will be there long.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/900569.htm
Rare one this, and I don't think it will be there long.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/900569.htm
I was faced with pretty much the same decision 8 years ago. I weighed up the pros and cons and went with the 944 (in my case a basic 2.5 Lux), mainly due to my reluctance to own another car running carbs, especially as it was going to be my only car.
I don't regret the decision the Porsche was great and served me well for over six years but I would still like to own an Excel at some point. They are such a nice package and to my mind they look fantastic.
I don't regret the decision the Porsche was great and served me well for over six years but I would still like to own an Excel at some point. They are such a nice package and to my mind they look fantastic.
salviablue said:
The only problem with the alpine, is that its french and I have an aversion to french cars! That aside I did actually conider getting one that was selling around ours, but it looked a real shed up close, so I didn`t even ask a price.
I owned a 320i and wondered what all the fuss was about, but I can see that this 320is is nice, but if I got another BMW, then it would have to be the E36 330i, 325i or an M3. Or the 840i if I was wealthier. The 320i was still a great car and it saved my life when I lost the back end in the wet from hitting the throttle a little too early coming off a round a bout, side ways right into a lamppost. It was my first RWD car, only having ever driven RWD vans before.
I must have misread the stats for the 280i, it is faster than my omega, sorry.
I agree with johnnylayze "Given the OPs original dilemma, my heart would say Excel but my head would say 944.
"
So really I am after some one telling me I could make my head say Lotus too!
Thanks for giving me alternatives, they have reminded me of others cars I have coveted in the past. Only problem, its nearly adding more cars I have to choose between!
But its still currently the Excel, but may still be swayed by the 944 at test time, although more comments would still be really appreciated.
SB, let me suggest you try a 944 turbo; just phenomenal!I owned a 320i and wondered what all the fuss was about, but I can see that this 320is is nice, but if I got another BMW, then it would have to be the E36 330i, 325i or an M3. Or the 840i if I was wealthier. The 320i was still a great car and it saved my life when I lost the back end in the wet from hitting the throttle a little too early coming off a round a bout, side ways right into a lamppost. It was my first RWD car, only having ever driven RWD vans before.
I must have misread the stats for the 280i, it is faster than my omega, sorry.
I agree with johnnylayze "Given the OPs original dilemma, my heart would say Excel but my head would say 944.
"
So really I am after some one telling me I could make my head say Lotus too!
Thanks for giving me alternatives, they have reminded me of others cars I have coveted in the past. Only problem, its nearly adding more cars I have to choose between!
But its still currently the Excel, but may still be swayed by the 944 at test time, although more comments would still be really appreciated.
Ah yes! I had been looking at those, the only problem is that the avg mpg would just stretch my running cost budget, would eat into looking after the car. But that 0-60 time is quite impressive, maybe when I get a pay-rise/new job!
If I could get a decent fuel return on the 350i, that would be a serious contender, but not looking likely, unless others can more confirm the mpg.
If I could get a decent fuel return on the 350i, that would be a serious contender, but not looking likely, unless others can more confirm the mpg.
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