How to become a classic car dealer?
Discussion
Hi All,
New to posting on the classics section although often watching. Just wondered if anyone remembers an ad that used to appear in the back of "Classic and SportsCar " and "Classic Cars " magazines advertizing "How to become a classic car dealer". The ad was for a training course giving advice needed on starting up. Does anyone know who to contact re that course, ( pressume no longer around ), or similar.
I've had subscriptions to both mags for years but haven't seen the ad for some time. Reason I ask is I can't help thinking that whilst I enjoy my job it just isn't my first passion and would love to get into the classic/sports motor trade if I could earn similar money to current salary.
All very speculative but thought it was worth asking. I'm sure there's a lot of us out there who spend hours each day thinking the same.
New to posting on the classics section although often watching. Just wondered if anyone remembers an ad that used to appear in the back of "Classic and SportsCar " and "Classic Cars " magazines advertizing "How to become a classic car dealer". The ad was for a training course giving advice needed on starting up. Does anyone know who to contact re that course, ( pressume no longer around ), or similar.
I've had subscriptions to both mags for years but haven't seen the ad for some time. Reason I ask is I can't help thinking that whilst I enjoy my job it just isn't my first passion and would love to get into the classic/sports motor trade if I could earn similar money to current salary.
All very speculative but thought it was worth asking. I'm sure there's a lot of us out there who spend hours each day thinking the same.
He's still around: http://www.johnwilliamsclassiccars.com/phdi/p2.nsf...
Edmundo2 said:
Hi All,
New to posting on the classics section although often watching. Just wondered if anyone remembers an ad that used to appear in the back of "Classic and SportsCar " and "Classic Cars " magazines advertizing "How to become a classic car dealer". The ad was for a training course giving advice needed on starting up. Does anyone know who to contact re that course, ( pressume no longer around ), or similar.
I've had subscriptions to both mags for years but haven't seen the ad for some time. Reason I ask is I can't help thinking that whilst I enjoy my job it just isn't my first passion and would love to get into the classic/sports motor trade if I could earn similar money to current salary.
All very speculative but thought it was worth asking. I'm sure there's a lot of us out there who spend hours each day thinking the same.
A wee word of warning Edmondo,New to posting on the classics section although often watching. Just wondered if anyone remembers an ad that used to appear in the back of "Classic and SportsCar " and "Classic Cars " magazines advertizing "How to become a classic car dealer". The ad was for a training course giving advice needed on starting up. Does anyone know who to contact re that course, ( pressume no longer around ), or similar.
I've had subscriptions to both mags for years but haven't seen the ad for some time. Reason I ask is I can't help thinking that whilst I enjoy my job it just isn't my first passion and would love to get into the classic/sports motor trade if I could earn similar money to current salary.
All very speculative but thought it was worth asking. I'm sure there's a lot of us out there who spend hours each day thinking the same.
This is most definitely not the time to get into the classic car business, with the possible exception of restoration and repairs. It is totally unlike all other sections of the motor trade. If, for example, you wanted to start a classic showroom, you would have to accept the fact that you are starting with no reputation whatever, a major drawback.
You are also starting in a serious recession, and you will need substantial amounts of invested capital for a considerable time before you see any sort of return.
The last, and possibly most important aspect is the highly specialised knowledge required of not only the value of these vehicles, but also the technical problems encountered when trying to make a profit at this. Many highly experienced people, including myself, have had their fingers sorely burnt with something they thought would have earned a nice crust or two!
If however, you are absolutely determined, let me suggest that you try buying and selling a car or two from home to start with, and this is much more viable if you have a property with a bit of ground and garage facilities. Make sure you get proper insurance, utterly vital.
Best of luck.
jith said:
let me suggest that you try buying and selling a car or two from home to start with, and this is much more viable if you have a property with a bit of ground and garage facilities. Make sure you get proper insurance, utterly vital.
Best of luck.
A friend does this; buys (classics only) from ebay that are reasonable condition but need tidying or minor repairs which he does himself and sells again on ebay tidier than when he bought and with a years ticket.Best of luck.
If you start that way, you can keep your job and the worst financial mess you can get in is to have one car on the drive that you can't sell, but at least you have a classic to drive for a while until you do!
Thanks for the replys all. Take on board what has been said and as mentioned I was just pondering the thought maybe not for now but for some day in the future, possibly on coming out of recession etc.
I studied motor vehicle restoration straight from school but unfortunatly never finished the course due to personal circumstances. Thats 14 years ago now and I've regretted it more and more ever since. I would consider my knowledge to be very good as I've spent every waking hour since my earliest memory reading articles, watching motor racing, and more recently owning. The last couple of cars I've owned I've enjoyed and sold on for a small premium ( although have spent a few quid on upgrades which have been for the love of it and not expected to see return ) although that was never the intention I just shopped around and bought v.good examples at the right price. Whilst I've been tempted to try buying selling from home I'm currently just keeping one on the button toy for when I get a break from work and baby.
Also I think current classic market is probably fairing much better than for the rest of the industry as enthusiasts will always be enthusiasts and cars are generally not suffering the increased running costs of higher tax, massive depreciation, high mileage fuel bills, etc..Also my money is due to be sunk into another TVR once the right car comes up. Sounds mad considering the recession but I don't think there's been a better time to buy and my money will be as safe in that as in any ISA at the moment. Also I don't picture a showroom of any glamour initially, just somewhere secure and clean where cars can be viewed on appointment. Obviously the web has helped.
As you've pointed out it's very easy to get burned and I do understand that which is probably the very reason I've never done it before. I think at the moment I'd struggle getting any credit to help set up but maybe one day. Thing is when is the right time? I'll keep pondering for the moment and thanks for the advice.
I studied motor vehicle restoration straight from school but unfortunatly never finished the course due to personal circumstances. Thats 14 years ago now and I've regretted it more and more ever since. I would consider my knowledge to be very good as I've spent every waking hour since my earliest memory reading articles, watching motor racing, and more recently owning. The last couple of cars I've owned I've enjoyed and sold on for a small premium ( although have spent a few quid on upgrades which have been for the love of it and not expected to see return ) although that was never the intention I just shopped around and bought v.good examples at the right price. Whilst I've been tempted to try buying selling from home I'm currently just keeping one on the button toy for when I get a break from work and baby.
Also I think current classic market is probably fairing much better than for the rest of the industry as enthusiasts will always be enthusiasts and cars are generally not suffering the increased running costs of higher tax, massive depreciation, high mileage fuel bills, etc..Also my money is due to be sunk into another TVR once the right car comes up. Sounds mad considering the recession but I don't think there's been a better time to buy and my money will be as safe in that as in any ISA at the moment. Also I don't picture a showroom of any glamour initially, just somewhere secure and clean where cars can be viewed on appointment. Obviously the web has helped.
As you've pointed out it's very easy to get burned and I do understand that which is probably the very reason I've never done it before. I think at the moment I'd struggle getting any credit to help set up but maybe one day. Thing is when is the right time? I'll keep pondering for the moment and thanks for the advice.
Out of interest in the current market of Classic cars
How much discount ( if any ) would the vendor be prepared to go on say one of these apreciate that still paying for showroom , etc low turnaround ?
http://www.racinggreencars.com/classic/stock.asp
current restoration ......original ad said +40k
now +50k ?
ad :The final price is dependent upon the final cost of renovation, but it is likely to be in the region of £50,000 +. It will, however, be worth every single penny.....!
So what price if you offered cash ?
How much discount ( if any ) would the vendor be prepared to go on say one of these apreciate that still paying for showroom , etc low turnaround ?
http://www.racinggreencars.com/classic/stock.asp
current restoration ......original ad said +40k
now +50k ?
ad :The final price is dependent upon the final cost of renovation, but it is likely to be in the region of £50,000 +. It will, however, be worth every single penny.....!
So what price if you offered cash ?
I have been restoring and selling classic cars for nearly 11 years. If you have the knowledge, the easiest way is to buy an established dealer with a good reputation. It took years to get established. PM me if you want further details or a chat, as it would take hours to type a suitable reply!
TFatC said:
I have been restoring and selling classic cars for nearly 11 years. If you have the knowledge, the easiest way is to buy an established dealer with a good reputation. It took years to get established. PM me if you want further details or a chat, as it would take hours to type a suitable reply!
Am i missing something. ? not one of your listings has any Price or guide , is this a sales ploÿ ...........asking out of interestthanks
I went on John Williams course about 5 years ago... i met some interesting people and enjoyed the day but not sure it provided the sort of foundation u may be looking for ( not that it was the course's fault, i think the classic car market, like many things, is not something that can be picked up in a day)...but even though i have run many little businesses and have been involved for many years in the classic car world from a interest/hobby/club point of view, it sure is a daunting task to actually start from scratch with a venture which does, i feel, require considerable investment and faith .... which is why i didnt go into it ......starting from home sounds good and in fact this is how John Williams started if i remember correctly, but it brings its own problems like upsetting the neighbours( like one of my friends found, the noise from his garage was not appreciated) and ebay for instance will soon determine u are a trader and all of a sudden you have VAT and insurance and trading standards and Tax implications never mind the many other difficulties that crop up......personally i think the best solution is somewhere inbetween and by that i mean joining somebody who has started a little business and is doing ok but needs help and backup and often just another pair of hands...i have always started my businesses from scratch and it always seems to take me 3 years of sweat to get on the first rung of being established and i think i would be less inclined to do this now, in this climate, and would prefer to buy or join a businss where "the tea is already made".
DBSV8 said:
Out of interest in the current market of Classic cars
How much discount ( if any ) would the vendor be prepared to go on say one of these apreciate that still paying for showroom , etc low turnaround ?
http://www.racinggreencars.com/classic/stock.asp
current restoration ......original ad said +40k
now +50k ?
ad :The final price is dependent upon the final cost of renovation, but it is likely to be in the region of £50,000 +. It will, however, be worth every single penny.....!
So what price if you offered cash ?
Not sure Peter can spell the word discount. :-)How much discount ( if any ) would the vendor be prepared to go on say one of these apreciate that still paying for showroom , etc low turnaround ?
http://www.racinggreencars.com/classic/stock.asp
current restoration ......original ad said +40k
now +50k ?
ad :The final price is dependent upon the final cost of renovation, but it is likely to be in the region of £50,000 +. It will, however, be worth every single penny.....!
So what price if you offered cash ?
I'd guess they are probably doing a major engine rebuild and tune up.
It's not hard to spend any amount of money doing up an E-Type.
The higher end classic car market place still doesn't seem to be being hit too hard. I was talking to someone who's in the top end renovation business the other day and he was saying they are snowed under with work. Certainly their workshop was good to look around.
The biggest problem I'd have is selling all those lovely classics! My love of old cars comes from my dad who traded on a small scale back in the 70's. We had a different mode of transport every week, although most of the cars we now think of classics were just old bangers then. I can remember a Aston Martin DB2 that was a real shed!
I digress, my dad told me "never buy a car that you wouldn't be prepared to drive around for at least 6 months"
That probably still holds true. Old cars are generally expensive to buy, expensive to maintain and hard to get rid of if you buy wrongly
I digress, my dad told me "never buy a car that you wouldn't be prepared to drive around for at least 6 months"
That probably still holds true. Old cars are generally expensive to buy, expensive to maintain and hard to get rid of if you buy wrongly
Hi Edmundo, my advice to you would be get a job with one of the major auction houses or specialist salesrooms first and build your contacts.
Many specialists sell cars on a commission basis for their clients, that rectifies the cash flow issue, but you need the contacts first. Specialise in one manufacturer. Read/research and find where the best most accurate information is available on that marque , study ,live, eat and sleep it.
Keeping it to one marque means you can build you product knowledge quicker.
Look at original examples,as many as possible. Photograph them and compare each individual picture and pick out/ note the differences. Check with the r specialists / historians all the relevant year changes to that particular marque/ model.Find out values according to year changes, which model sells, which model commands the better prices and has the biggest appreciation rate.
Check through the owners club/specialists where the best purchases are made, this will save alot of time/effort/money by your trial and error advertising.
Obviously the best areas for the public to buy, will be the best to sell. The world and his mate will try and sell you add space at a premium. This will be one of your biggest expenses.Gte it right first time and stick with it.
Beware of warranty companies, many are husband/ wife teams in Burnley!.( fact)
Of claim settlements, you have as much chance as The football club wining Premiership.
Seek to offer a warranty with a Lloyds underwrittn company. You would be amazed many boast they have Lloyds behind them, most do not. Fact!
Get in cahoots with a recognised specialist locally. DO NOT argue with him over repair rates. You will need his expertise and he will be invaluable to your education and business building.
Always buy the best. DO NOT buy the worst example, you maybe lucky and get a St Dunstans patient to pay it at a premium, but that is unlikely. You can make a `silk purse from a sows ear`, but why?. Leave restoration to the clients who can afford it , or offer your specialists phone number for restoration repairs/ maintenance if you by a bad example.
Recommending your specialist for work will only increase your browny points with him.
DO NOT over sell, descibe what you have with you recognised specialists opinion backing it, be it good or bad, with all its` good and bad points.
Clients often travel huge distances and people appreciate honesty.
Yes, you can be successful if you follow the basic rules and treat customers with respect.It has worked for the major players in the market place.
Good luck.
Many specialists sell cars on a commission basis for their clients, that rectifies the cash flow issue, but you need the contacts first. Specialise in one manufacturer. Read/research and find where the best most accurate information is available on that marque , study ,live, eat and sleep it.
Keeping it to one marque means you can build you product knowledge quicker.
Look at original examples,as many as possible. Photograph them and compare each individual picture and pick out/ note the differences. Check with the r specialists / historians all the relevant year changes to that particular marque/ model.Find out values according to year changes, which model sells, which model commands the better prices and has the biggest appreciation rate.
Check through the owners club/specialists where the best purchases are made, this will save alot of time/effort/money by your trial and error advertising.
Obviously the best areas for the public to buy, will be the best to sell. The world and his mate will try and sell you add space at a premium. This will be one of your biggest expenses.Gte it right first time and stick with it.
Beware of warranty companies, many are husband/ wife teams in Burnley!.( fact)
Of claim settlements, you have as much chance as The football club wining Premiership.
Seek to offer a warranty with a Lloyds underwrittn company. You would be amazed many boast they have Lloyds behind them, most do not. Fact!
Get in cahoots with a recognised specialist locally. DO NOT argue with him over repair rates. You will need his expertise and he will be invaluable to your education and business building.
Always buy the best. DO NOT buy the worst example, you maybe lucky and get a St Dunstans patient to pay it at a premium, but that is unlikely. You can make a `silk purse from a sows ear`, but why?. Leave restoration to the clients who can afford it , or offer your specialists phone number for restoration repairs/ maintenance if you by a bad example.
Recommending your specialist for work will only increase your browny points with him.
DO NOT over sell, descibe what you have with you recognised specialists opinion backing it, be it good or bad, with all its` good and bad points.
Clients often travel huge distances and people appreciate honesty.
Yes, you can be successful if you follow the basic rules and treat customers with respect.It has worked for the major players in the market place.
Good luck.
Can you deal with and handle every type of person?
Have you dealt with the public and the car trade? - there are a lot of nasty, greedy, selfish, ignorant, unrealistic and undecisive people out there
It's not all like that but buying and selling houses and cars seems to bring the worst out of many people, both trade and public - please don't be one of these people as we already have too many of them
Have you dealt with the public and the car trade? - there are a lot of nasty, greedy, selfish, ignorant, unrealistic and undecisive people out there
It's not all like that but buying and selling houses and cars seems to bring the worst out of many people, both trade and public - please don't be one of these people as we already have too many of them
Thanks to all for the responses. Some great advice. I think best bet will be for me to look to buy a house with an outbuilding when I next move and start from there. I may contact John Williams in the meantime just to get an idea as to what his courses cover.
SB Nigel - Don't worry, I currently work in a technial sales/key accounts role for a large global company selling b2b and to end user and often come accross the sort of people you're discribing. They have the same effect on me and it really turns me off. Getting into the classic/sports industry would be for my love of it and would just need to provide enough income to live comfortably. I certainly wouldn't be doing it with a view to making a fortune rather would just prefer to spend the working day talking all things cars to like minded people.
SB Nigel - Don't worry, I currently work in a technial sales/key accounts role for a large global company selling b2b and to end user and often come accross the sort of people you're discribing. They have the same effect on me and it really turns me off. Getting into the classic/sports industry would be for my love of it and would just need to provide enough income to live comfortably. I certainly wouldn't be doing it with a view to making a fortune rather would just prefer to spend the working day talking all things cars to like minded people.
DBSV8 said:
TFatC said:
I have been restoring and selling classic cars for nearly 11 years. If you have the knowledge, the easiest way is to buy an established dealer with a good reputation. It took years to get established. PM me if you want further details or a chat, as it would take hours to type a suitable reply!
Am i missing something. ? not one of your listings has any Price or guide , is this a sales ploÿ ...........asking out of interestthanks
Finally, the OP says he just wants to make a "comfortable" living. My business has 2 partners including myself, and 3 part time staff. The only ones who make a comfortable living are the staff! Yes, we make money, but I could make much more in a standard job, this is for pleasure, playing with a huge range of toys, etc. And this is after 10+ years.
Hi All,
I am a Classic Car Dealer myself so have something to add here.
It is a difficult time for everyone at the moment but if you can make money this year, then you are in for the long run.
The nice thing about dealing in cars is that it is wonderfully unambiguous, you buy three cars, you sell three cars, you either make money or lose money, you cannot labour on for years wondering if you are any good at it. Your success can be measured weekly by your accounts. It is important not to confuse knowledge of the market with the ability to play. I know many many more knowledgable people than me who simply cant take a regular profit from cars.
Someone here already said the Auction Houses are a good starting point and this is true, if you are new you really need to know how the market works. If you are not new then you really can buy a car you see a profit in, and then sell it, forget workshops, showrooms, staff etc, you can go quite a long way without these.
Anyway, to summarise, if you want to have a go, just do it, there is no other way of finding out if you can simply see a profit in a car, and this is all there is to it in my experience. There are plenty of other jobs within the Classic Car Industry if dealing is not for you however.
Paralysis by anaylsis is the devil here, just get on with it, the part time dealers are pulling out of the market as we speak so there is plenty of room for everyone!
Justin.
I am a Classic Car Dealer myself so have something to add here.
It is a difficult time for everyone at the moment but if you can make money this year, then you are in for the long run.
The nice thing about dealing in cars is that it is wonderfully unambiguous, you buy three cars, you sell three cars, you either make money or lose money, you cannot labour on for years wondering if you are any good at it. Your success can be measured weekly by your accounts. It is important not to confuse knowledge of the market with the ability to play. I know many many more knowledgable people than me who simply cant take a regular profit from cars.
Someone here already said the Auction Houses are a good starting point and this is true, if you are new you really need to know how the market works. If you are not new then you really can buy a car you see a profit in, and then sell it, forget workshops, showrooms, staff etc, you can go quite a long way without these.
Anyway, to summarise, if you want to have a go, just do it, there is no other way of finding out if you can simply see a profit in a car, and this is all there is to it in my experience. There are plenty of other jobs within the Classic Car Industry if dealing is not for you however.
Paralysis by anaylsis is the devil here, just get on with it, the part time dealers are pulling out of the market as we speak so there is plenty of room for everyone!
Justin.
Well Mr Justin-Banks,it is the `Just do it` mentally did for the Banking industry and is currently ruining my Country, that is the UK.
Have you ever been a banker or stockbroker? I notice from your website you are an ex pat........
May I remind you the products you sell have been prepared by a significant , knowledgeable engineer at some stage.It is this Engineering expertise that enable Classic car dealers to survive, albeit accross the other side of the Channel.
It is these skills enable salesman , to make signifcant profits where Engineers often fail.Yet Engineers are the least valued.Time and again
I trust you get my drift? Perhaps you should re consider what I have posted on building relationships .You never know , it may work well for you.
Have you ever been a banker or stockbroker? I notice from your website you are an ex pat........
May I remind you the products you sell have been prepared by a significant , knowledgeable engineer at some stage.It is this Engineering expertise that enable Classic car dealers to survive, albeit accross the other side of the Channel.
It is these skills enable salesman , to make signifcant profits where Engineers often fail.Yet Engineers are the least valued.Time and again
I trust you get my drift? Perhaps you should re consider what I have posted on building relationships .You never know , it may work well for you.
Well I have watched the Justin Banks adverts for some time and and got the impression the business was being built up from a small start to a larger operation. Always has some interesting cars which I enjoy looking through.
I think blaming someone who thinks we should have some get-up-and-go for the banking crisis is well wide of the mark. There is a difference between the get rich quick, money grabbing hyenas in the banking business and someone trying to turn an honest profit.
Throughout history money has been made by traders (buying and selling) and lenders. The rest of us are just bit players.
I think blaming someone who thinks we should have some get-up-and-go for the banking crisis is well wide of the mark. There is a difference between the get rich quick, money grabbing hyenas in the banking business and someone trying to turn an honest profit.
Throughout history money has been made by traders (buying and selling) and lenders. The rest of us are just bit players.
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