Discussion
i think i like them more thank the mk2, but don't know much at all about them and don't see many for sale.
how much would i be looking at for a good example? i've seen a restored one for £7k but its a naff colour combo [maroon with grey leather - too old man for me].
i really fancy cruising around in someting like this:
any info. on the mk1 would be much appreciated - engine types/problems/costs etc.
also, is it possible to swap in running gear from the xj such as various companies do with the mk2? mk1 body mated to xjr running gear would be very tempting.
how much would i be looking at for a good example? i've seen a restored one for £7k but its a naff colour combo [maroon with grey leather - too old man for me].
i really fancy cruising around in someting like this:
any info. on the mk1 would be much appreciated - engine types/problems/costs etc.
also, is it possible to swap in running gear from the xj such as various companies do with the mk2? mk1 body mated to xjr running gear would be very tempting.
One of the companies that does Mk2 bodies perched on top of XJR running gear is Beacham from New Zealand. RGCs have one for sale at the moment. Even secondhand they a fraction of £7K. I'm sure they'd do you a Mk1 if you had the cash, they do XK150s as well.
The Mk1 would be harder to do than the Mk2 as the rear axle is even shorter.
Most Mk1s are 2.4s, the 3.4 was introduced later on and mostly went for export to the US, where the 2.4 was considered meaty enough.
There is an article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_Mark_1.
To find one you could take a look at
http://www.jagads.co.uk
or
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk
The Mk1 would be harder to do than the Mk2 as the rear axle is even shorter.
Most Mk1s are 2.4s, the 3.4 was introduced later on and mostly went for export to the US, where the 2.4 was considered meaty enough.
There is an article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_Mark_1.
To find one you could take a look at
http://www.jagads.co.uk
or
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk
The big difference between the Mk1 and the Mk 2 is the rear track which is narrower on a Mk 1. We had the 50th anniversary meeting at Brown's Lane a couple of years back and got around 60 Mk 1s there, that's all. Here's a photo of the assembled cars but all on the left are Mk 2's. My Mk 1 is at the back somewhere. A good Mk 1 is now much sought after and it would ne sacrilege to even think of putting more modern mechanicals in one because they are so rare. Furthermore, the handling, not perfect at best, would to my mind, unless you are Justin Law or Grant Williams who know how to handle these cars, be downright dangerous. A good Mk 1 3.4 would now be fetching around £15/20K I reckon.
Something that's always puzzled me about these is Mk1 what?
Anything else would be called a Mk1 Sprite, Escort, 3000 and so on (ie not Ford or Austin-Healey Mk1) but these are just Jag Mk1, which they aren't because there were lots of other Jags beforhand.
So, is there another designation that is never mentioned?
Anything else would be called a Mk1 Sprite, Escort, 3000 and so on (ie not Ford or Austin-Healey Mk1) but these are just Jag Mk1, which they aren't because there were lots of other Jags beforhand.
So, is there another designation that is never mentioned?
the 'mk1' tag is retrograde, after the introduction of the mkii. contemporarily they were known as jaguar 2.4l or 3.4l.
i don't know why jag. started off with the mk5, must have been to allow room for a smaller model in the range. mkiv has also been unofficially used, but there is no mkiii.
thanks for the response so far. i had actually seen that beacham one in this month's octane which got me thinking about them again. i just prefer the look of the mk1 and a period style racer would be amazing
i don't know why jag. started off with the mk5, must have been to allow room for a smaller model in the range. mkiv has also been unofficially used, but there is no mkiii.
thanks for the response so far. i had actually seen that beacham one in this month's octane which got me thinking about them again. i just prefer the look of the mk1 and a period style racer would be amazing
Jaguar never called them Mark 1s.
When introduced they were the Two point Four Litre Jaguar.
Here is an early brochure http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/mk1_2-4_white_...
The Mark 2 was known by Jaguar as the Mark 2 from its launch, here's an early brochure
When introduced they were the Two point Four Litre Jaguar.
Here is an early brochure http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/mk1_2-4_white_...
The Mark 2 was known by Jaguar as the Mark 2 from its launch, here's an early brochure
lowdrag said:
A good Mk 1 is now much sought after and it would be sacrilege to even think of putting more modern mechanicals in one because they are so rare.
I was about to ask how rare they are and suggest that one wouldn't want to rip apart a decent Mk1 but I see you've beaten me to it. Personally I can never understand people who buy an old car (presumably for the old car experience) and then proceed to modernise everything. It would be a bit like me choosing a 50 year old Aston and then fitting a 4 litre lump, power steering and air-con 
If I wanted a more modern feel I could have bought a 1960's DB6. I've seen a few of the Beecham Mk2s and to me they look like a Mk2 sitting on top of a something. Maybe it's just the big wheels, but to my mind they just look wrong. The E-Type they do looks OK. But I'm with you, I can't understand them either. But then I like my old cars to look old, to me they look wrong with brand new interiors even when it is "correct". I like a bit of character in the cars. Got to agree particularly about the Mk1s, if you want something prettied up then surely a Mk2 is prettier, but a Mk1 can have more character.
Hi , The compact saloon, the car which put Jaguar saloon car racing and touring car challenge on the map. Essential differences are the front suspension which is all Mk1 only,not shared with anything else. Uprights , suspension pans and top wishbone arms are different to Mk2. Top ball joint bolt holes and suspension ball joints have different bolt hole centres and the pressed steel wishbone arms (upper)were in fact re drilled and used on the Mk2 until 1961.They share a very simular floorpan but the ribbing is different.Handbrake cable mounting plate only Mk1.Engine is basically standard Jaguar with A scroll rear main oil seal and up right filter.Air filter is oil bath mounted on the nearside inner wing . The rear axle is a 3HA
2 inches narrower than the front track
Early 3.4s were drum braked and feeble, later discs from early 1958 changing to the quick release pad/ caliper in mid 58. Interior is lovely,
The fact is the 3.4 for was quicker and lighter than its replacement Mk 2
Though the getaway drivers prefered the Mk2, again 3.4.
If you want a piece of history by a genuine 3.4, if you want a Beecham Kit car, then buy a Caterham, its cheaper .Modified Beecham cars okay I suppose , but not as good as the real thing sorted properly.
Good enough for most of the top drivers of the day,including the world champion so good enough for you mate
2 inches narrower than the front track
Early 3.4s were drum braked and feeble, later discs from early 1958 changing to the quick release pad/ caliper in mid 58. Interior is lovely,
The fact is the 3.4 for was quicker and lighter than its replacement Mk 2
Though the getaway drivers prefered the Mk2, again 3.4.
If you want a piece of history by a genuine 3.4, if you want a Beecham Kit car, then buy a Caterham, its cheaper .Modified Beecham cars okay I suppose , but not as good as the real thing sorted properly.
Good enough for most of the top drivers of the day,including the world champion so good enough for you mate
RichB said:
lowdrag said:
A good Mk 1 is now much sought after and it would be sacrilege to even think of putting more modern mechanicals in one because they are so rare.
Personally I can never understand people who buy an old car (presumably for the old car experience) and then proceed to modernise everything. I do think that rebuilds involving major modern components are a little quirky. However, modifying cars with compenents that were avaiable when the car was manufactured is a different matter, particually if the model/make has a strong competition heritage where such mods were fairly common, not just for factory teams but at a club competition level, as is the case with the Mk1 and Mk2 Jaguar.
Driving a well maintained classic modified with period components is a real pleasure, it's more of everything with surprising levels of performance that question the need for modern engines in the cars.
It gets a bit more difficult with things like V8 Healeys, the Americans have been building 289 Badboys since the 60's so.
Driving a well maintained classic modified with period components is a real pleasure, it's more of everything with surprising levels of performance that question the need for modern engines in the cars.
It gets a bit more difficult with things like V8 Healeys, the Americans have been building 289 Badboys since the 60's so.
I do agree, triple 45's and a lumpy cam, the range of noises you get is quite special.
lowdrag said:
We have one club member who built a fibreglass D type in the mid 1990s. The engine he put in it was a straight 6 X300 model 4 litre supercharged from an XJR! Fast and furious but I still love the sound of my triple 45DCOE Webers though. I also think they look better.
Hi All , its funny all these schools of thought. Engine chops have been happening since time began. If you couldn`t get the motor required then the next best thing would have to do,next generation did the same with Minis and fords etc.
I suppose the beecham/ vicarage thing was the next stage level. Trouble is they are not so good.Driving them I can compare to the same sensation when out walking the dog on a crisp winter morning,great until you tread in his crap.
Great though,driving up the golf club .
Having a Beecham is saying you can`t cope with the wifes` Hormone replacement Therapy, or is that the reason for golf?
Mk1s are not for men, but another breed called the `Bloke`.
Blokes drink real ale in a real pub from a PINT JUG, can steer a car on the throttle and know that `Crab Paste `is only available from the Chemist .
I suppose the beecham/ vicarage thing was the next stage level. Trouble is they are not so good.Driving them I can compare to the same sensation when out walking the dog on a crisp winter morning,great until you tread in his crap.
Great though,driving up the golf club .
Having a Beecham is saying you can`t cope with the wifes` Hormone replacement Therapy, or is that the reason for golf?
Mk1s are not for men, but another breed called the `Bloke`.
Blokes drink real ale in a real pub from a PINT JUG, can steer a car on the throttle and know that `Crab Paste `is only available from the Chemist .
we should remember the "each to his own" mantra here.
Personally, I own a number of older cars which I've modernised to my taste. I have an early sixties saloon car with ABS for example. I have my own needs and build my cars to suit: keeping the parts that I like and modifying the parts I don't.
For reference, I believe cars are for driving and not for looking at. I do not have a garage for keeping them in, and they are expected to work every day. I also do not own a "modern".
In exactly the same way, a "Beachamised" car could fit its owner's remit perfectly.
Personally, I own a number of older cars which I've modernised to my taste. I have an early sixties saloon car with ABS for example. I have my own needs and build my cars to suit: keeping the parts that I like and modifying the parts I don't.
For reference, I believe cars are for driving and not for looking at. I do not have a garage for keeping them in, and they are expected to work every day. I also do not own a "modern".
In exactly the same way, a "Beachamised" car could fit its owner's remit perfectly.
AJAX50 said:
However, modifying cars with compenents that were avaiable when the car was manufactured is a different matter, particually if the model/make has a strong competition heritage where such mods were fairly common
Indeed. I did this years ago with my Sunbeam-Lotus. It was a very low milage car with original panels etc., but I still set about fitting a whole load of Talbot-Sport supplied parts to improve the car, pretty much to the spec that it's originator, Des O'Dell had intended but the Chrysler (later Talbot) bean counters dismissed.
Group 2 Bilstein suspension, Group 2 AP 4-pot front brakes, genuine magnessium Minilites, Talbot-Sport quick ratio steering rack, 'works' Springalex steering wheel etc. were all fitted in subsequent years.
Only deviation was I fitted a Quife ATB diff rather than a Salisbury unit as the car was predominately for road use.
Hi all and Woody ,I am in the business of restoration/ maintenance so with respect I know my subject.If you consider the original designer how on earth can the man in the street be more qualified than say Bob Knight , the chief chassis designer for Jaguar. I have seen IRS modified Mk2s some good , mostly bad, some that are positively dangerous. A well known suspension company designed a coil over rear suspension set up for the Mk2 , put lots of money/ effort into it only to find that it created vibration right through the car. The problem lay with the monocoque design ,no problem for the original set up , but the coil over loading was being put directly through the upper damper mounting. The hole area was never designed to take that sort of stress. Others include the rack conversion for the Mk1/2 . It does not work.
I have had clients with the conversion fitted where tyre scrub has occured after 2k miles, leaving the inner tread with the cords exposed. Geometry and tracking all appeared fine, but the toe in changed when loaded up and the bumpsteer issue was terrible.
Trouble is many of these alternatives are not created by Engineers so quite right Woody 2 it is about personal taste. I just hope and pray when I have my family in my car, I am never involved in a accident with a Tastefully modified Beecham type motor.
Beecham tried to modify DS 420 limos in the 90s using the 4 litre 6 cylinder. As I understand it, problems occured with the ABS and there were some nasty accidents with total brake failure. They were all recalled and the original Beecham factory closed.
These extensively modified cars, in which the whole concept has been changed, need to be inspected first by a Independant qualified Engineer capable of assesing safety of both the occupants and other road users . They need some sort of type approval before they are allowed on our roads.Do you not agree?
I have had clients with the conversion fitted where tyre scrub has occured after 2k miles, leaving the inner tread with the cords exposed. Geometry and tracking all appeared fine, but the toe in changed when loaded up and the bumpsteer issue was terrible.
Trouble is many of these alternatives are not created by Engineers so quite right Woody 2 it is about personal taste. I just hope and pray when I have my family in my car, I am never involved in a accident with a Tastefully modified Beecham type motor.
Beecham tried to modify DS 420 limos in the 90s using the 4 litre 6 cylinder. As I understand it, problems occured with the ABS and there were some nasty accidents with total brake failure. They were all recalled and the original Beecham factory closed.
These extensively modified cars, in which the whole concept has been changed, need to be inspected first by a Independant qualified Engineer capable of assesing safety of both the occupants and other road users . They need some sort of type approval before they are allowed on our roads.Do you not agree?
Well done Ajax,thankfully common sense prevails .The latest mod I have seen includes a new S type rear suspension set up carved up and fitted to a Mk2.
Sorry ,it is frightening what is happening to some Jaguar saloons and sports cars. MOT testers work within boundaries laid down by VOSA, so most escape the net. Some are very well done and safe, but others, Potential worthless death traps,£100k or more. Only good enough for posteuring, not driving.
I remember speaking to the Police about one such steering mod supplied and fitted by a well known specialist to his former customers car. They were very keen to see and inspect it. In their opinion it could well contravene `construction and use` regs.It didn`t happen as the customer got cold feet. Trouble is ,if you were involved in a accident serious enough to warrant a vehicle inspection how would the Insurance companies deal with it?
Sorry ,it is frightening what is happening to some Jaguar saloons and sports cars. MOT testers work within boundaries laid down by VOSA, so most escape the net. Some are very well done and safe, but others, Potential worthless death traps,£100k or more. Only good enough for posteuring, not driving.
I remember speaking to the Police about one such steering mod supplied and fitted by a well known specialist to his former customers car. They were very keen to see and inspect it. In their opinion it could well contravene `construction and use` regs.It didn`t happen as the customer got cold feet. Trouble is ,if you were involved in a accident serious enough to warrant a vehicle inspection how would the Insurance companies deal with it?
RW774 said:
Trouble is ,if you were involved in a accident serious enough to warrant a vehicle inspection how would the Insurance companies deal with it?
if they were aware of the mod they'd have to cover it surely? its their own fault for not asking for an engineers report etc.although i know that fanciful moral view wont be the one they take.
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