The Demise of the Main dealerships
Discussion
Hi All, I am interviewing for staff at the moment and am shocked about what is happening in the motor trade.Really shocked. It seems most of our main dealerships have been messed up yet again by poor management, with a glut of High quality technicians coming on stream looking for work. Today I interviewed a guy with both Jaguar and BMW experience,18 years in total-recently laid off by the dealer. Former Head tech,and obviously a highly skilled man. Stupid management cannot see what will occur in the future, when we have a huge shortage of skilled Technicians due to lay offs.
Now we see one skilled tech running semi skilled guys carrying out the work at a knock down hourly rate .
Great for the fat cat directors. These main dealers are charging £90/ 130 per hour and the work produced is increasingly poor( actual cost in labour is around £ £6/8 per hour).From my own experience Dealer customer satisfaction is very low, great for us independants as our workshop is full.
Let me give you an example.A Jaguar dealer, they had the best customer satifaction rating in the country, all problems dealt with immediately and efficently.Sales of new/ 2nd hand cars really good, lots of repeat business due to such good customer care and skilled efficent workshop.A buyout occurs and the new people lay off all the older workshop staff, then attack the stores and the middle management, putting in their own. Many Of the remaining staff left with some leaving the trade altogether.
5 years on they went into liquidation last month. They finished up with one skilled technician and 3 boys I think, even the MOT bay was closed and Mots were sent down the road to another Garage.
So, credit crunch or not we still have a huge number cars on the road and if this continues, no Authorised dealerships to repair them.
Now we see one skilled tech running semi skilled guys carrying out the work at a knock down hourly rate .
Great for the fat cat directors. These main dealers are charging £90/ 130 per hour and the work produced is increasingly poor( actual cost in labour is around £ £6/8 per hour).From my own experience Dealer customer satisfaction is very low, great for us independants as our workshop is full.
Let me give you an example.A Jaguar dealer, they had the best customer satifaction rating in the country, all problems dealt with immediately and efficently.Sales of new/ 2nd hand cars really good, lots of repeat business due to such good customer care and skilled efficent workshop.A buyout occurs and the new people lay off all the older workshop staff, then attack the stores and the middle management, putting in their own. Many Of the remaining staff left with some leaving the trade altogether.
5 years on they went into liquidation last month. They finished up with one skilled technician and 3 boys I think, even the MOT bay was closed and Mots were sent down the road to another Garage.
So, credit crunch or not we still have a huge number cars on the road and if this continues, no Authorised dealerships to repair them.
from working in the parts department of a volvo dealer a few years ago i'd say the less dealerships, the higher the average quality of the mechanics. ffs we had one bloke who failed to fit brakepads properly to the parts van. after that i fixed the van myself as i didnt trust the spanner monkeys.
come to think of it, he was the same bloke who lost pilers inside a chassis rail, set light to a dashboard & various other clever tricks. always seemed to make his bonus though, so he must have been good right?
come to think of it, he was the same bloke who lost pilers inside a chassis rail, set light to a dashboard & various other clever tricks. always seemed to make his bonus though, so he must have been good right?
When I worked for dealerships, Apprenticeship schemes had Parents commit to a legal undertaking with the company to make sure there offspring were at work on time, clean tidy and presentable. Parents had to instil a sense of responsiblity and that included dealing with the transition between School and work. An Apprenticeship was a honour to have and something of great value. I have worked with some of the best and the worst, but all gave me experience and the ability to think for yourself. No college can teach that.It is only achieved in the workplace after several years.
There is no way anyone can call themselves a mechanic after 6 months.The void between the ears would not even be off the empty mark.Bonus or not.
How can Less dealerships mean higher quality? . There will be fewer jobs and a lower wage for the head techs,so they will simply leave the trade on mass.
That will mean lower quality work with more of the occurances you mention , probably with loss of life at some stage. Still the Directors will be on fatter bonuses with their cheap labour.
There is no way anyone can call themselves a mechanic after 6 months.The void between the ears would not even be off the empty mark.Bonus or not.
How can Less dealerships mean higher quality? . There will be fewer jobs and a lower wage for the head techs,so they will simply leave the trade on mass.
That will mean lower quality work with more of the occurances you mention , probably with loss of life at some stage. Still the Directors will be on fatter bonuses with their cheap labour.
Quite right but some of the best independants work under railway arches and some of the best techs drive the dirtiest cars.I don`t think you can generalise ,with the exception of the Directors. Some of the best I have known have come directly off the workshop floor. The worst straight out of University and they mostly have not got a clue.I have seen The MD of what used to be Reynolds Motors rework a dead company into Dagenham Motors . He had been a tech and would often come into the workshop, work there with us all using his own tools on any given job you would care to choose.We had the greatest respect for him too. Initials M.R.
Can you think of anyone doing that now? He realised the importance of good staff and good training.
Can you think of anyone doing that now? He realised the importance of good staff and good training.
RW you are forgetting the basic premise of modern business.
Long term planning is thinking about THIS AFTERNOON'S SHARE PRICE.
This is not just a malaise affecting the car industry. I work in the IT industry. I'm seeing this the whole time. Experienced engineers are being layed off because they are
a) expensive, and
b) keep pointing out that the management dweeb's ideas are completely unworkable, and then pointing out that "WE TOLD YOU SO" when everything goes tits up.
I have no problem with moving jobs from the US to India. I have a huge problem with laying off teams with an average 20 year experience and expecting a team of new hires to fill their boots and produce the same quality.
Long term planning is thinking about THIS AFTERNOON'S SHARE PRICE.
This is not just a malaise affecting the car industry. I work in the IT industry. I'm seeing this the whole time. Experienced engineers are being layed off because they are
a) expensive, and
b) keep pointing out that the management dweeb's ideas are completely unworkable, and then pointing out that "WE TOLD YOU SO" when everything goes tits up.
I have no problem with moving jobs from the US to India. I have a huge problem with laying off teams with an average 20 year experience and expecting a team of new hires to fill their boots and produce the same quality.
RW774 said:
A buyout occurs and the new people lay off all the older workshop staff, then attack the stores and the middle management, putting in their own. Many Of the remaining staff left with some leaving the trade altogether.
5 years on they went into liquidation last month.
Yes this happened to me at a dealership, we had one of the best customer satisfaction feedback scores in the country then we were taken over.5 years on they went into liquidation last month.
They only kept going for a couple of years after we all moved on.
RW774 said:
Hi A8hex, So what happens when you don`t have any experienced staff in whatever industry ? IT or otherwise? , or do you just bank on them always being there? What would happen if we all lacked a Moral responsibilty toward our staff? Surely then the Companies fold.
Oh, I agree with you.Once a company starts to offload experienced staff and replace them with inexperienced in-hires then quality suffers. For a time the company can continue to trade on its reputation but as that starts to degrade then customers get pissed-off and leave.
With a small company like a car dealership the decay can be quite short, for a large IT companies it can take far longer.
There can also be problems where basically all the possible suppliers in the market place are doing the same thing, so customers just get pissed off, but have no where else to go, since everyone is doing the same thing.
Some of this is actually customer driven.
You start off with a number of quality suppliers, they all charge a reasonable rate based on the costs of running their business and a reasonable profit margin.
Then someone comes along and offers support at a much lower price. Their quality of service might be lower, maybe much lower, but they are significantly cheaper.
Some people will move to the lower cost supplier.
Some people will complain to the original higher priced supplier that their prices are too high and that XYZ are cheaper. Saying that XYZ are cheaper than us because they aren't as good doesn't always work. Often bean counters are not concerned with quality.
End result, every one ends up trying to drive down their costs. Quality suffers.
Now there are other scenarios, some times companies try and drive down their costs just to increase the profit margin.
Anyway, I basically agree with you, experience is being undervalued and sacrificed for perceived short term profit. I say perceived because frequently experienced staff can get the job done much more quickly. This is particularly true in problem solving and troubleshooting areas.
RW774 said:
When I worked for dealerships, Apprenticeship schemes had Parents commit to a legal undertaking with the company to make sure there offspring were at work on time, clean tidy and presentable. Parents had to instil a sense of responsiblity and that included dealing with the transition between School and work. An Apprenticeship was a honour to have and something of great value. I have worked with some of the best and the worst, but all gave me experience and the ability to think for yourself. No college can teach that.It is only achieved in the workplace after several years.
There is no way anyone can call themselves a mechanic after 6 months.The void between the ears would not even be off the empty mark.Bonus or not.
How can Less dealerships mean higher quality? . There will be fewer jobs and a lower wage for the head techs,so they will simply leave the trade on mass.
That will mean lower quality work with more of the occurances you mention , probably with loss of life at some stage. Still the Directors will be on fatter bonuses with their cheap labour.
I have just recently started a Nissan Apprenticeship Programme and i have been contracted to turning up on time and going to college etc etc. Our place is doing well currently however it seems everyone else around us is going tits upThere is no way anyone can call themselves a mechanic after 6 months.The void between the ears would not even be off the empty mark.Bonus or not.
How can Less dealerships mean higher quality? . There will be fewer jobs and a lower wage for the head techs,so they will simply leave the trade on mass.
That will mean lower quality work with more of the occurances you mention , probably with loss of life at some stage. Still the Directors will be on fatter bonuses with their cheap labour.
a8hex said:
RW you are forgetting the basic premise of modern business.
Long term planning is thinking about THIS AFTERNOON'S SHARE PRICE.
This is not just a malaise affecting the car industry. I work in the IT industry. I'm seeing this the whole time. Experienced engineers are being layed off because they are
a) expensive, and
b) keep pointing out that the management dweeb's ideas are completely unworkable, and then pointing out that "WE TOLD YOU SO" when everything goes tits up.
Design consultancy within the construction industry is exactly the same.....Long term planning is thinking about THIS AFTERNOON'S SHARE PRICE.
This is not just a malaise affecting the car industry. I work in the IT industry. I'm seeing this the whole time. Experienced engineers are being layed off because they are
a) expensive, and
b) keep pointing out that the management dweeb's ideas are completely unworkable, and then pointing out that "WE TOLD YOU SO" when everything goes tits up.
Good luck with the Apprenticeship.This should last 5 years minimum.If we look at the guy recently bought in by the government to sort out Northern Rock, 6 weeks into the job and he recieves a Bonus .For what? how can anyone sort out a business in trouble after 6 weeks and then take tax payers money. I think £250k I believe.
During the 30s, a huge number Moseleys Blackshirts marched on the docks in East london and staged a massive brawl with the Police and the dockers.The Blackshirts won and pushed all the Opel cars and parts into the river, to prevent foreign imports ruining our Motor business and jeopardising English jobs ( this event was covered up, I know because a relative took part in it).
What has happened to our spirit ? Not that I`m advising that sort of drastic action, but we do need to stop being bossed about by idiots, gambling our money and jobs away now before it is too late.
During the 30s, a huge number Moseleys Blackshirts marched on the docks in East london and staged a massive brawl with the Police and the dockers.The Blackshirts won and pushed all the Opel cars and parts into the river, to prevent foreign imports ruining our Motor business and jeopardising English jobs ( this event was covered up, I know because a relative took part in it).
What has happened to our spirit ? Not that I`m advising that sort of drastic action, but we do need to stop being bossed about by idiots, gambling our money and jobs away now before it is too late.
That is the main reason why there weren`t many opels around in the 30s.
Perhaps we will see more independants take over the databases. I think we will see fundamental changes in the trade in future years which will see the end of the big dealerships. I feel it will return to the smaller agencies with huge distribution depots supplying smaller authorised specialists . These companies will be commissioned by the manufacturers to carry out warranty and sales, with smaller localised depots for parts distribution to these agencies.This can only be good for the customer. With the advent of all these highly qualified techs being available, more independants will spring up.
Perhaps we will see more independants take over the databases. I think we will see fundamental changes in the trade in future years which will see the end of the big dealerships. I feel it will return to the smaller agencies with huge distribution depots supplying smaller authorised specialists . These companies will be commissioned by the manufacturers to carry out warranty and sales, with smaller localised depots for parts distribution to these agencies.This can only be good for the customer. With the advent of all these highly qualified techs being available, more independants will spring up.
RW774 said:
The Blackshirts won and pushed all the Opel cars and parts into the river, to prevent foreign imports ruining our Motor business and jeopardising English jobs
I reckon that if that sort of thinking prevailed we'd still be pottering about in the kind of mediocre cars which brought the British motor industry to an end...Someone recently gave me a load of Motor Sport magazines from the 1950s and 60s and the reader's surveys make for some enlightenment. I won't bore you with too many details, but one story I find worth relating. A man went into a VW dealership with his Beetle and complained of an engine noise. They asked for the car to be left for two hours and when he returned they said they had identified a camshaft problem. So what had they done? Changed the engine for a spare while they repaired his! He went back 6,000 miles later and they put his rebuilt engine back in the car in 90 minutes! Some of the dealerships (of course owned and run by the same people) attention to detail and going far beyond the norm make for heartwarming reading in these different days.
Good point lowdrag, how can our industry ever move forward without looking closely at the basics. Some of the most successful dealerships survived decades for that very reason, customer care.
Round here ,Mindens, Botwoods, Mann Egerton etc all swallowed up by big multi nationals .Some, like M.E. were established at the turn of the last century, all now gone. That new British management theory that `they know best`. These `new brooms` straight out of Oxford or such like, leading the country into the great cavern of irreponsiblity.
It would be cheaper and far less damaging, if the ` new broom students` continued their further education, world tour back packing double honour degrees until they were 70 and un-employable. Lets hope to God they would be too old to run the country.
Where`s my blood pressure tablets..........
Round here ,Mindens, Botwoods, Mann Egerton etc all swallowed up by big multi nationals .Some, like M.E. were established at the turn of the last century, all now gone. That new British management theory that `they know best`. These `new brooms` straight out of Oxford or such like, leading the country into the great cavern of irreponsiblity.
It would be cheaper and far less damaging, if the ` new broom students` continued their further education, world tour back packing double honour degrees until they were 70 and un-employable. Lets hope to God they would be too old to run the country.
Where`s my blood pressure tablets..........
Absolutely, real service disappeared a long time ago. I havent been in the motor trade for about 16 years but reading this thread sounds like nothings changed much.
When I left school in 1969 as an apprentice mechanic in an Aston/Rolls dealership a mechanics money was really poor and staff were leaving in their droves. Conditions were also very bad; example, to quiet down complaints about carbon monoxide poisoning they reversed the polarity of the heater blower motors and put in cheap extraction pipes so we froze and still got gassed! They then threatened a few people with the sack! I vowed never to work as a mechanic again but stayed in the motor trade.
To get guys back they introduced the bonus system which in time destroyed any quality/craftmanship work ethic as all the technicians wanted to do is carry out services and do straight forward jobs that made loads of extra bonus. Taking time to actually diagnose problems became rare and taking a pride in your skill and knowledge were gone.
I left and later returned to that company who had taken on Ferrari. All they cared about was charging the biggest bills possible, I told them that owners wouldnt be fooled for long and that those with more than one Ferrari were already going to specialist non franchised companies, but I just got branded as a trouble maker and eventually got made redundant; by then some of the staff had got into the act and were fiddling the customers! They didnt last too much longer.
I later worked for a Lotus dealer during the turbo front wheel drive Elan period, and by then greedy management had discovered that if you ran with a bunch of low paid inexperienced 'boys' under the direction of a really good foreman that this would lower costs and increase profit, but it was just another variation of the screw the customer scam destined to fail. They also folded inevitably.
It seems to me that a business without values is a poorly run business. If you are going to run a dealership it needs people who feel valued, and who themselves have a value in the job that they do.
Technicians are CRAFTSMEN. Craftsmen dont do the unskilled stuff. Customers get value from having their cars serviced at a reasonable price and problems looked after by a dedicated and skilled workforce and pay accordingly.
40 years on I now know what it is like to work in an organisation with strong values, but that is in an entirely different field, but it works really well most of the time. I only hope that (40 years on) exposure to carbon monoxide and asbestos dust in large quantities back then will mean that I dont have to pay a heavy price for my time in the rip off motor trade.
When I left school in 1969 as an apprentice mechanic in an Aston/Rolls dealership a mechanics money was really poor and staff were leaving in their droves. Conditions were also very bad; example, to quiet down complaints about carbon monoxide poisoning they reversed the polarity of the heater blower motors and put in cheap extraction pipes so we froze and still got gassed! They then threatened a few people with the sack! I vowed never to work as a mechanic again but stayed in the motor trade.
To get guys back they introduced the bonus system which in time destroyed any quality/craftmanship work ethic as all the technicians wanted to do is carry out services and do straight forward jobs that made loads of extra bonus. Taking time to actually diagnose problems became rare and taking a pride in your skill and knowledge were gone.
I left and later returned to that company who had taken on Ferrari. All they cared about was charging the biggest bills possible, I told them that owners wouldnt be fooled for long and that those with more than one Ferrari were already going to specialist non franchised companies, but I just got branded as a trouble maker and eventually got made redundant; by then some of the staff had got into the act and were fiddling the customers! They didnt last too much longer.
I later worked for a Lotus dealer during the turbo front wheel drive Elan period, and by then greedy management had discovered that if you ran with a bunch of low paid inexperienced 'boys' under the direction of a really good foreman that this would lower costs and increase profit, but it was just another variation of the screw the customer scam destined to fail. They also folded inevitably.
It seems to me that a business without values is a poorly run business. If you are going to run a dealership it needs people who feel valued, and who themselves have a value in the job that they do.
Technicians are CRAFTSMEN. Craftsmen dont do the unskilled stuff. Customers get value from having their cars serviced at a reasonable price and problems looked after by a dedicated and skilled workforce and pay accordingly.
40 years on I now know what it is like to work in an organisation with strong values, but that is in an entirely different field, but it works really well most of the time. I only hope that (40 years on) exposure to carbon monoxide and asbestos dust in large quantities back then will mean that I dont have to pay a heavy price for my time in the rip off motor trade.
Edited by Ipelm on Sunday 4th January 12:46
Edited by Ipelm on Sunday 4th January 12:52
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